Learning Japanese

[Kylaran]

Originally Posted by larethian

Well, I mis-communicated. I'm talking in terms of linguistic science that makes E->J more accurate than J->E in machine translators. That's actually what I meant. Of course for human translation, this statement does not necessary apply.

Hm, yeah, that does seem to be the case. I'm not sure if it's because there's been more research/work into the English side than the Japanese side (considering the large body of work done in English) or if there are other reasons.

[Mystique]

Originally Posted by genjichan

Questions! Why does subber's have different translations of a particular anime?

Since Kylaran's all but exhausted this topic

I'm just gonna link two threads from the fansub forums on translation discussion for you to read up on and leave here for those wanting to learn more japanese

How to Become a Good Fan Translator - Guide
This dude deserves an Oscar for the most comprehensive guide to explaining what translation is about (for any language) and what it takes and is needed to be a decent one.
Love this link to death <3

Question about Fansub Translation
First question related to song translation, but better to put future questions in here

[larethian]

Great guide. I also love alc to death but it doesn't have everything I need. Though this guide seems to be more geared towards anime, which places a greater demand on listening skills and vocab. Manga will require more giongo and gitaigo, but can be researched. Novels will place a greater demand in thinking time, since the narration and descriptive sentences are more complicated than dialogue, especially when the authors are highly skilled. It's a little different for each of them, but imo, I think translating manga is the easiest. (hope I'm not going off-topic?)

[Kudryavka]

Originally Posted by zatsu-chan

tnx!......
here's some that i know but not sure...
hajimemashite-how do you do?
konbanwa-gudevening
konnichiwa-gudafternoon
ohayou-gudmorning

Correct, but you should polish up your English skills some more, hon.

[risingstar3110]

Originally Posted by risingstar3110

Question: is there a proverb in Japan about "as calm as XXX"? In Japanese of course

The context is, for example about a human or an animal stay really calm when being stared at by his/its supposed enemy

^....just in case everyone missed my question...

[larethian]

Originally Posted by risingstar3110

^....just in case everyone missed my question...

seems like you're doing some high level writing
sorry, I'm not at the level where I can pull out proverbs from my mind. perhaps, you might find this index of tools and resources useful:
http://www.j-net.org.uk/links.html

[Doraneko]

How about "徐かなること林の如く"?

It is originally a quote from Sun Tzu's The Art of War (故其疾如風、其徐如林、侵掠如火、難知如陰、不動如山、動如雷霆。), which was later adopted and popularized in Japan by Takeda Shingen who used the line "疾きこと風の如く、徐かなること林の如く、侵略すること火の如く、動かざること山の如し", commonly referred to as "風林火山", on his battle flags.

[risingstar3110]

Originally Posted by Doraneko

How about "徐かなること林の如く"?

It is originally a quote from Sun Tzu's The Art of War (故其疾如風、其徐如林、侵掠如火、難知如陰、不動如山、動如雷霆。), which was later adopted and popularized in Japan by Takeda Shingen who used the line "疾きこと風の如く、徐かなること林の如く、侵略すること火の如く、動かざること山の如し", commonly referred to as "風林火山", on his battle flags.

Not quite what i got in mind (somehow, i feels 徐かなること林の如く a bit too poetry, and philosophic for my specific context) but thank you anyway

I probably will just rid of that line, since it's not unreplaceable in my text

[Pink Cow]

I have another question about Japanese. ^^;

As far as I know, "all" or "everything" is translated to ぜんぶ or すべて.
Now, my question is kinda like ばしょ and ところ.

Is there a difference between zenbu and subete?

[suki888]

about money:
10000- jun sen yen
1000- sen yen
100 yen- hyaku yen
10 yen- ju yen
1 yen- itchi yen

[Qikz]

I'm pretty sure 10000 is 1 man. Also yen is written just en　（えん・円） in Japanese,

[Edijs]

Hello im looking where to buy Genki I - Integrated Elementary Japanese but where i look it was very expensive , yes i have PDF version of that book its very good but hard to learn , and printing would be bad, becouse there is like ~400Pages in a Book + Workbook too :|
Anyone knows where i can buy it?

Spoiler for This is like first Exercise ''Greetings'' there were pics and writen in japanese so here can put...:

[Raiga]

Originally Posted by Pink Cow

I have another question about Japanese. ^^;

As far as I know, "all" or "everything" is translated to ぜんぶ or すべて.
Now, my question is kinda like ばしょ and ところ.

Is there a difference between zenbu and subete?

Hmmm actually I never thought about that before, though I sort of intuitively get the difference. Let me think... 全部 is... an adverb or a noun, I believe? While 全て is more like an adjective... I think. Hang on.

ここにある売品は全部１００円です。
ここにある売品は全て１００円です。

Hmm...

I think it might actually be more to do with the kinds of things you can count with them. Like ケーキを全部食べました is like "I ate all of the cake" where ケーキを全て食べました would be "I ate all of the cakes"... maybe? Actually the last one sounds a bit funny but maybe that's just me... I know they're different in some way, but I can't put my finger on it. ><

[Alchemist007]

Anyone know of a good book that would go through a substantial amount of kanji? I liked the style of this particular book (Japanese The Written Language by Eleanor Jorden) which lists about 400 kanji in a manner like this: http://imgur.com/xCWUC

I found this to be effective but alas the book series only goes up to 400 kanji. So I will be in need of something more.

[Kudryavka]

Originally Posted by Edijs

Hello im looking where to buy Genki I - Integrated Elementary Japanese but where i look it was very expensive , yes i have PDF version of that book its very good but hard to learn , and printing would be bad, becouse there is like ~400Pages in a Book + Workbook too :|
Anyone knows where i can buy it?

Spoiler for This is like first Exercise ''Greetings'' there were pics and writen in japanese so here can put...:

Amazon has it for $60 new for the old edition, and $88 for the 2011 edition. My advice is to buy a used one. Are you going to use this book for self study, or are you just getting it for a class and you won't use it ever again? If the latter, then just buy the cheapest used one, trust me, as long as it has the same words inside, it'll work and save tons of money .

If you already have the PDF of the whole book, I'd say just stick with that, there's nothing of interest in the textbook that a PDF wouldn't have, except maybe the CD if you get the 2011 edition. Just buy the workbook if you need something to write in.

[Sylphic]

Originally Posted by Raiga

ここにある売品は全部１００円です。
ここにある売品は全て１００円です。

Hmm...

I think it might actually be more to do with the kinds of things you can count with them. Like ケーキを全部食べました is like "I ate all of the cake" where ケーキを全て食べました would be "I ate all of the cakes"... maybe? Actually the last one sounds a bit funny but maybe that's just me... I know they're different in some way, but I can't put my finger on it. ><

The difference is pretty simple. What it means is the same, but the nuance is incredibly different.

ケーキをすべて食べました = I ate every cake in the world.
ケーキを全部たべました　= I ate all the cakes (here).

Basically, すべて is pretty much never used in the examples listed above.

[risingstar3110]

Originally Posted by Sylphic

The difference is pretty simple. What it means is the same, but the nuance is incredibly different.

ケーキをすべて食べました = I ate every cake in the world.
ケーキを全部たべました　= I ate all the cakes (here).

Basically, すべて is pretty much never used in the examples listed above.

Just want to comment that your examples are especially hilarious when it goes along with your avatar

[larethian]

Originally Posted by Pink Cow

I have another question about Japanese. ^^;

As far as I know, "all" or "everything" is translated to ぜんぶ or すべて.
Now, my question is kinda like ばしょ and ところ.

Is there a difference between zenbu and subete?

I can also throw in a "絶対" vs "必ず"

definitions:
http://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/leaf/jn2...5%A8%E9%83%A8/
http://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/leaf/jn2...1%B9%E3%81%A6/

examples:
http://eow.alc.co.jp/%E5%85%A8%E9%83%A8/UTF-8/
http://eow.alc.co.jp/%E3%81%99%E3%81%B9%E3%81%A6/UTF-8/

some research:
http://bulo.hjenglish.com/question/163394/
http://lang-8.com/47463/journals/900...25EF%25BC%259F

My understanding is that it seems like most people (myself included until today), get the impression that すべて and 全部 are not entirely the same and used with different nuances. But if you go through every example on alc, すべて can be pretty much used where 全部 is used and vice versa, true to the definitions prescribed in the dictionary. Though I believe that the examples given by risingstar3110 can be ambiguous without a context and might be resolved by making the sentences more specific. Finally, it seems like the general consensus is that 全部 is used more in informal speech (and never appears in 'news' according to the quote from the person on lang8) and すべて is used in writing and formal speech (and never by children, it seems). Perhaps, only the academics can tell us whether they is any real difference between them.

I apologize if I missed something or made a mistake.

[Edijs]

Originally Posted by Komari

Amazon has it for $60 new for the old edition, and $88 for the 2011 edition. My advice is to buy a used one. Are you going to use this book for self study, or are you just getting it for a class and you won't use it ever again? If the latter, then just buy the cheapest used one, trust me, as long as it has the same words inside, it'll work and save tons of money .

If you already have the PDF of the whole book, I'd say just stick with that, there's nothing of interest in the textbook that a PDF wouldn't have, except maybe the CD if you get the 2011 edition. Just buy the workbook if you need something to write in.

Look here

Spoiler for Look Genki:

You see i dont know if its 2011 edition or older. Its bit hard to use those PDF all time roll down, roll up , thats way i want book to write something in it. and use when PC is OFF. Yes its for my self study

[Mystique]

Originally Posted by suki888

about money:
10000- jun sen yen
1000- sen yen
100 yen- hyaku yen
10 yen- juu yen
1 yen- itchi yen

Originally Posted by Qikz

I'm pretty sure 10000 is 1 man. Also yen is written just en　（えん・円） in Japanese,

Yep, 10,000 = ichi man yen
100,000 = juu man yen
1,000,000 = hyaku man yean
etc

The easiest way to count is to remember that man = 0000 (4 zeros) and the rest is a cinch.
Phonetically, the Japanese unit should be written as 'en' so we're saying it the same way however in English it is written and said with a Y so either/or.

It get's fun when you start playing with even bigger mixed numbers though, time to kick in counting in 10s