Psycho-Pass - Episode 9 Discussion / Poll

[Roger Rambo]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Still, there is a rich poetic irony here. Remember that those are not the bones of some innocent girl...

Indeed. She was turning her classmates into art pieces...so she ended up in a way being turned into an exhibition herself.

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

Makes no difference though. Trophy is a trophy in the end regardless of who or what it came from. Innocent or not doesn't change the quarry's fate.

Are you implying that it's just as disturbing to keep a stuffed animal head as it is to keep a human being as a trophy? I'll be honest. I don't think it's fair to characterize hunters as being like serial killers just because you personally have a weak stomach about animal trophy's.


I dare say it's not exactly fair of anime fans to chastise people for being creepy/sexually inadequate for items they keep around. The same kind of broad generalization could be made of people who have anime merchandise.

[Kirarakim]

Originally Posted by ogon_bat

If you ever have the chance visit a factory that processes livestock and tell me if you really thought that process can be called "natural". The only difference is that modern society shuns (most of the time) upon the idea of killing thy neighbor, we forget there was a time our ancestors did it quite often (for modern standards). The roman coliseum is a prime example. Wars and professional american football is a modern example.
.

Look I know all about that stuff. And no I don't want to talk about it is because it really has nothing to do with saying humans killing other humans and using their bones to smoke out of is akin to every day human life because it's not.

Quite honestly I am not even sure what we are discussing here.

[MeoTwister5]

Originally Posted by andyjay729

"To fight 'darkness' (be it criminality and/or the most damaged of psyches) you yourself must learn about darkness. Kogami's swamp analogy was very good at explaining the dangers inherent in this, and how not everybody is up to it."

Welp, you remember Nietzsche's quote earlier in the show about staring into the abyss for too long. That seems to be one of the main philosophies in this series.

I would say that Kogami's swamp is literally exactly Nietzsche's abyss. It's just a substitution of the word that signifies the "darkness".

[andyjay729]

I'd also like to add my appreciation for seeing Akane stand up for herself. Killer performance by Kana Hanazawa there. (I haven't seen a whole lot of her series; has she ever pulled off an angry, hot-blooded argument like that before?) Of course, this made me think that sooner or later her Soul Ge--I mean, Hue will likely grow cloudy, and we all know where that will lead...

What came to my mind during the "pipe scene" was, "There's always a bigger fish."

[Entravity]

Akane is finally standing up for herself! This anime does a great job of presenting both sides of the spectrum. Interesting stuff.

[monir]

Originally Posted by Quadratic

So it turns out Sibyl actually is relatively new. Akane is ~2nd generation into the Sibyl system, then?

That last 5 minutes...I'm really enjoying the whole Shinya-Akane-Nobuchika-Tomomi dynamic. Still wishing for a bit more Yayoi, though, haha.

Interesting thing with the chairman. I've had that kind of thought myself. How much can a person replace/(cybernetize?) before you're no longer you?
Considering he enjoys taking the 'souls' of others to cultivate his mind (hmm...), where does his 'soul' reside if he cybernetize his brain?

The known science tells us that the brain is nothing more than the culmination of synaptic process of the neurons. From the perspective of this killer (and the Sibyl System), what he seems to be saying is that while his body don't have to face the degenerative process that comes with age because of the cybernetic parts, his brain will still need to have constant source of stimulation for it to function at an optimal level. And his source of stimulation comes from watching people in their moments of terror as they are facing the inevitable. With that in mind, I don't know if his extensive usage of cybernetic technology had any overall affect with his particular mindset (or his soul ). The guy very well have been twisted way before he even gone through his cybernetic process. Surely he can't be the only one in the Sibyl System who thought about prolonging his life (and even try to achieve immortality) by using cybernetic technology. Does every one of those individual carry out gruesome murder for stimulation? Surely it can't be the only way to stimulate a brain to sustain the synaptic functionality. He CHOSE this particular stimuli.

As for your other question, where does soul reside in a cybernetic brain..... well, Ghost in the Shell delved right into that subject with some very interesting takes. It's a must watch if you haven't already. This show, I think, don't go that far as to suggest a cybernetic brain. This killer's cybernetic parts may have helped only to slow down the degeneration process of the brain while most of the brain is as it is in like any other people, but he still needs to find a way to keep the brain functioning through that prolonged period of his life. The way he sees it, one can only do the same thing so much before one loses interest and life is worth living only when one is doing something interesting (aka stimulation). He thinks when he loses interest and doesn't feel alive anymore, he will be like one of those people in the hospital bed. For this killer, prolonging his life isn't enough. He wants to feel alive along with living a very long life. And he thinks that is the key to immortality. I really wonder how long he has been on into this particular set of stimulation.

Btw, if Shinya happens to go against that cyborg bare handed in the upcoming episodes, I'm putting my money on him. He practically destroyed a robot he was going against in an earlier episode at max setting.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by ogon_bat

In essence if you can't translate an idea into words I think a computer can extract from your brain a novel (or even a sentence) since it is not there.

And here we come at a failure of words: I don't know what you're trying to say.

But I'll stand by what I wrote earlier: it's easy to have thoughts, even and especially abstract thoughts, that you don't need to - or can't - put into words.

[klare]

a nice collection of pipes, but Kougami is different, he is a prey that will bite back

ah Akane has grown up

[mangamuscle]

For me it is quite obvious what will happen next

Spoiler:

Kougami will destroy the cyborg, yet in the end it will also disappear, Makishima will substitute him with a fully cybernetic unit, he already has the software to impersonate a person better than the original person and it will be rude for anyone to say "Hey, show me your brain, I want to know if you are really human", therefore whatever resources that cyborg had at his disposal are now owned by Makishima

[HandofFate]

Akane standing up for herself was a pretty well-done scene.

I love that costume device Akane uses and I love the way they draw her as she's trying on difference clothes.

I was like "dang.." when the hunter took out the pipe he made out of the girl's bones lol.

Overall though, while the series presents some flaws in the system and there's the guy exploiting the system for his own amusement. Am I the only one that thinks the system is pretty good?

I wouldn't mind such a system, no system is perfect and has its own share of flaws and there's always people out there to exploit it.

[Chiaki_chan]

I really love this episode Akane crying on Ginoza I loved it up in my esteem then cyborg that my most shocking in this episode is the pipe made ​​with bones Ouryou must have a good collection pipe made with all the criminals I think

[Hiroi Sekai]

Nobody told me Benedict Cumberbatch was gonna be in this episode.

[creb]

You really should go hunting some time (actual hunting, and not some glorified tourist-trap "hunting" safari-style or some other nonsense). It always amazes me how much people like to 'dis things they have no actual experience with.

I've certainly never seen a dick size correlation to it.

[lordblazer]

Originally Posted by Kanon

Very good and informative episode.

The hunter is actually a cyborg. I don't know how old he actually is, but I think his brain might have already started to degenerate. He is a very twisted individual. He made a pipe out of Rikako's bones, how sick is that? Makishima wasn't the least bit phased by this -not that I expected him too- which indicates he is just as bad if not worse. He may truly be the worst criminal the Sibyl system has ever seen. The hunter's next target is Kogami, courtesy of Makishima. Curious to see how that will play out.

The Akane and Kogami's side of things was also very interesting. They visited an expert in forensic psychiatry and Akane got to learn a thing or two about criminal investigation. It turns out the good Professor's lectures were banned after it was found out the crime coefficient of some of those who attended his course rose. That's one of the main drawbacks of the Sibyl system. It can't produce efficient inspectors anymore, they can only rely on enforcers. Ginoza's father was a victim of the system, he was labeled a latent criminal simply because he was too good at his job. The system could use some fine-tuning, imo. I can't imagine skilled inspectors who truly believe in what they do can become threats to society.

One of my favorite scene was Akane standing up to Gino. She magnificently put him in his place, which is that of a colleague and not a superior. Given his past, I do understand where Gino is coming from though. He is simply scared of losing another person right in front of his eyes. Nevertheless, he shouldn't treat Akane like a kid, even if she is indeed very young and could use some guidance.

The question I have to ask is the moment this discrepancy is discovered. Why do they keep this system in place? I mean I know Japan is conservative now, but things don't change easy today because the population is aged.. by the future Japan will be a much much different country (less populated too and a bit younger)...

soooooo it just has me wondering. I mean yea we need a show so I guess the writers didn't think this one out all the way and will find a convenient plot device to resolve the conflict soon.

[TinyRedLeaf]

Originally Posted by lordblazer

The question I have to ask is the moment this discrepancy is discovered. Why do they keep this system in place? I mean I know Japan is conservative now, but things don't change easy today because the population is aged.. by the future Japan will be a much much different country (less populated too and a bit younger)...

There are plenty of things wrong in real-world societies that are not addressed simply because of sheer inertia. The widening income gap between the very rich and the very poor caused by market capitalism. The entrenched inequality in trade between commodity producers and developed world consumers. Endemic corruption at all levels of society in many countries. Unsustainable environmental destruction fuelled by the desire to profit from natural resources while they last. Stubborn East Asian preference towards more work rather than more play. The perceived laziness of Westerners who prefer more play rather than more work.

The list could go on. The point is that even when things seem blatantly wrong, most people will generally try to live and let live rather than stick their necks out to change a system. It's not necessarily cowardice. More often than not, immediate concerns — such as simply getting by day by day, responsibilities to dependents that cannot be cast aside — mean that most people will not be prepared to make a sacrifice unless there is a reasonable hope of success.

That's likely how things unfolded in the Psycho-Pass universe and why no one seems to complain. To be sure, though, I don't think the population is as passive as many critics here make it out to be. There's the news anchor, for example, who asks reasonably insightful questions about the drawbacks of cyberisation. Then there's the retired professor who clearly has his doubts about the system. The key thing to remember is that, for the most part, the Sibyl System has brought a lot of benefits to the majority of citizens. It has its flaws, but the general belief seems to be that these are kinks that can be ironed out. Akane mentioned as much in this episode, during the drive to the professor's home.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by lordblazer

The question I have to ask is the moment this discrepancy is discovered. Why do they keep this system in place?

Perhaps the Sibyl System arose due to crime growing out of control, more law-abiding citizens getting utterly fed up about it and complaining to the government about it, and hence the government using extreme measures to solve this crime problem.

And if this is the case, the Sibyl System probably accomplished what it was designed for. The first few weeks of the Dominators being the standard issue weapons for the police might have been a bloody month indeed. But once that horrific month was over, there were way, way fewer criminals left. Society re-stablized, with far less crime. The general populace were naturally relieved and thankful. And then the more insidious elements of the Sibyl System came into play.

Mind you, that's just speculation on my part. I will admit it's getting a bit harder to imagine the Sibyl System coming into place without a serious crime problem.

That being said, consider how the airplane industry in America responded to 9/11. 9/11 was one terrible tragedy, but again, it was one terrible tragedy. Nothing like it has happened since.

Yet, from everything I've read, the TSA has put into place ever-increasing high-security measures for people boarding planes at American airports. Some of it I'm amazed that Americans would put up with. Yet, it goes on, and I suspect that lingering fears over 9/11 is a big reason why.

It doesn't take a lot to convince people to trade some freedom and practicality for enhanced safety.

I mean I know Japan is conservative now, but things don't change easy today because the population is aged.. by the future Japan will be a much much different country (less populated too and a bit younger)...

In a way, that might actually be why the Sibyl system is so accepted. For the young, it's the only system they've ever known.

Imagine trying to tell your average middle class teenager of today that it's possible to get through life without FaceBook, Twitter, and/or text messaging. They'd probably think you're insane.

But someone my age and older at least has the memory of what life was like before these things took off like a rocket. And life was fine back then. But for kids that have never known a world without the internet, without FaceBook, without Twitter, without texting, these things are absolutely necessary.

Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf

There are plenty of things wrong in real-world societies that are not addressed simply because of sheer inertia.

It's not just that. It's also that...

1) Not everybody agrees that these "wrongs" are actually wrong.

2) These "wrongs" sometimes have highly difficult solutions to find.

3) The "wrongs" are largely out of sight. It's not just that they're easy to ignore, it's that many people never learn of them in the first place.


Let's look at your list.

The widening income gap between the very rich and the very poor caused by market capitalism.

Not everybody is a strict egalitarian. So many people are simply not concerned about this income gap. For some people, this is the natural (and hence acceptable) byproduct of "the American dream".

The entrenched inequality in trade between commodity producers and developed world consumers.

A lot of people simply aren't aware of this. Those that are aware of it, and are in any real position to oppose it, are generally those on the side that materially benefits from this (i.e. "developed world consumers"). If clothing sweat-shops overseas shut down, does that mean that the price of clothes goes up? That's likely a real concern for "developed world consumers".

Endemic corruption at all levels of society in many countries.

Yeah, this is an inertia thing more than anything.

Unsustainable environmental destruction fuelled by the desire to profit from natural resources while they last.

Part of this is economics, yes, but part of this is simply fulfilling the people's energy wants and needs. There's real difficulties in fulfilling people's energy wants and needs without "unsustainable environmental destruction". Based on what I've read, the only present solution would be to build a lot more nuclear reactors. And that itself comes with a certain chilling risk, of course...

Sadly, green energy has not taken off to the degree that it can substantially lower reliance on natural gas.

Stubborn East Asian preference towards more work rather than more play. The perceived laziness of Westerners who prefer more play rather than more work.

I'm going to skip this, since you (being Singaporean) are in a better position to speak on this than I.

To be sure, though, I don't think the population is as passive as many critics here make it out to be. There's the news anchor, for example, who asks reasonably insightful questions about the drawbacks of cyberisation. Then there's the retired professor who clearly has his doubts about the system. The key thing to remember is that, for the most part, the Sibyl System has brought a lot of benefits to the majority of citizens. It has its flaws, but the general belief seems to be that these are kinks that can be ironed out. Akane mentioned as much in this episode, during the drive to the professor's home.

I get the sense that for those who dislike the Sibyl System, it's kind of like the older people of today who dislike increasing reliance on electronics in day-to-day living. They probably feel like "this is the way of the future", and whether you like it or not, it's pointless to question it because you'll be viewed as a luddite or an "old curmudgeon" for doing so.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Perhaps the Sibyl System arose due to crime growing out of control, more law-abiding citizens getting utterly fed up about it and complaining to the government about it, and hence the government using extreme measures to solve this crime problem.

And if this is the case, the Sibyl System probably accomplished what it was designed for. The first few weeks of the Dominators being the standard issue weapons for the police might have been a bloody month indeed. But once that horrific month was over, there were way, way fewer criminals left. Society re-stablized, with far less crime. The general populace were naturally relieved and thankful. And then the more insidious elements of the Sibyl System came into play.

Mind you, that's just speculation on my part. I will admit it's getting a bit harder to imagine the Sibyl System coming into place without a serious crime problem.

I could see it happen progressively. First among upscale gated communities, schools, and the like. And HR departments. Then, as the benefits become more and more obvious, spread it everywhere.

[mangamuscle]

The series make it clear to us (the viewers) that it is a dystopia camouflaged as a utopia, the public at large is unaware that all those wonderful drugs that help them remove those ugly urges the human mind/body can have will eventually (probably by the time they are 40, maybe even sooner) make them into living zombies that no longer react to any external impulses. It is somewhat similar to Logan's Run premise, a society of the young. Also, the public at large is unaware of the prisions full with highly driven and creative persons that happen to have a permanently blurred coeficient, so the revolutionaries that in the past have changed human society are already sentenced to life without parole.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by ogon_bat

The series make it clear to us (the viewers) that it is a dystopia camouflaged as a utopia, the public at large is unaware that all those wonderful drugs that help them remove those ugly urges the human mind/body can have will eventually (probably by the time they are 40, maybe even sooner) make them into living zombies that no longer react to any external impulses.

It happens to some of them. We don't know how many. Few enough that it's not common knowledge, at least.

[mangamuscle]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

It happens to some of them. We don't know how many. Few enough that it's not common knowledge, at least.

If they die out of a heart attack there will never be an appreciable accumulation of living zombies. If there is a common message I have seen in all this many years of watching anime is that the mass media is controlled by he goverment, so I would not be surprised that the statistics of people going zombie are kept secret as a national security problem. Also, the older population that managed to get to retirement is probably not affected since they never got into the fad of consuming these treatments to beautify their hue. In a sense that might be a social commentary about the public health in modern japan, that has a lot of people living beyond a hundred years, but at the same time has many younger fellows dying young because of unhealthy habits *cough* karoshi *cough*