GATE - Episode 18 Discussion / Poll

[Benigmatica]

So while Emperor Molt ignored Tuka, Rory, and Yao's accomplishments, he even ignored Lt. Youji Itami as well. That makes me mad that despite being human, Lt. Itami is treated like a second-class citizen.

Then again, Emperor Molt being poisoned by Tyuule would be a big blow to the peace negotiations. While the Empire will obviously point fingers at Japan for assassinating the emperor, I feel that it's all according to Tyuule's plan for turning the Special Region into a wasteland as revenge for having the Formal Clan wiped out by Prince Zolzal and his men.

In any case, while Lelei will have a long conversation with her sister Arpeggio at Rondel, things aren't looking well!

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Benigmatica

So while Emperor Molt ignored Tuka, Rory, and Yao's accomplishments, he even ignored Lt. Youji Itami as well. That makes me mad that despite being human, Lt. Itami is treated like a second-class citizen.

Of course he doesn't treat Itami like a citizen; Itami is a foreigner. Why do you think the Emperor should treat a foreigner like he would a citizen?

And it seems you completely missed the point. The Elves and the Apostle are politically independent and not under the rule of the Empire. They don't get credit because he didn't want to give credit to outsiders. The whole point is he needed someone who has at least some narrow connection with the Empire for him to praise.

[rladls2121]

I'm more bothered with how the king says something like "So the enemy got involved" when he hears the name Itami Youji, still using the word "Enemy" towards Japan after hearing a Japanese name, especially in this kind of important peace party.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by rladls2121

I'm more bothered with how the king says something like "So the enemy got involved" when he hears the name Itami Youji, still using the word "Enemy" towards Japan after hearing a Japanese name, especially in this kind of important peace party.

But of course. It is a peace treaty but they are still enemies. You don't stop being enemies overnight, it's not that simple.

[eisai_haramasukoi]

Sherry is politically savvy despite her young age. She's got an interesting future ahead of her.

Originally Posted by rladls2121

I'm more bothered with how the king says something like "So the enemy got involved" when he hears the name Itami Youji, still using the word "Enemy" towards Japan after hearing a Japanese name, especially in this kind of important peace party.

The treaty is yet to be signed officially. Technically, Japan and the Empire are still enemies.

[ReddyRedWolf]

Thing is Lelei doesn't consider herself of the empire. This came as a shock to one of Piña's knights as the empire never took care of its subjects or its vassals.

Sherry is the other end of the spectrum to Piña a tomboy who doesn't want to be just married off politically. That Piña is mortified at the possibility of being raped as that is the world she lives in. Sherry uses her political savvy to marry the guy she wants. Poor Suragawa not only is he being judge of his actions by his country as a representative but by the rest of the world whose standards Japan adheres to. The age of consent in Japan is 13 years old, even then prefecture have laws to make is older. Sherry is 12 years old but she is backing she'll get her man in 4 years. It just so happens Japan's legal age for marriage for women is 16 years old. I do believe Piña is 17 or 18 with one of her friends already engaged.

For all Molt's fault he did indulge Piña making her knight order even if he thinks it is ceremonial. Piña still loves her father which is more than we can say for Zorzal who smiled at his death.

[mergele]

So they decided to just give itami a free pass. I guess as long as he continues to produces good results that solves some problems.
I wonder why they just snuck the head there (bot to mention how noone sawa that chopper with the head). I mean try something like "In celebration of the start of the peace talks we have a present for you".

[Anh_Minh]

"We can slay dragons. Tread lightly."

[HandofFate]

wonder how Rory flared at trying to learn to drive

[mysterious]

I laugh so hard when Zorzal said "what is so special about slaying a fire dragon." Dude obviously must be a badassary eating dragon for breakfast, lunch, and ... oh wait, he got beaten to a bloody pup by a female Soldier smaller than him.

[quigonkenny]

Originally Posted by mergele

So they decided to just give itami a free pass. I guess as long as he continues to produces good results that solves some problems.
I wonder why they just snuck the head there (bot to mention how noone sawa that chopper with the head). I mean try something like "In celebration of the start of the peace talks we have a present for you".

In the manga, it was flown in shortly before dawn, with dark elves casting wind magic to muffle the sound of the rotors. If I remember correctly from discussion around that time, in the novel it just appears one morning. It was basically a message saying, "Not only can we kill fire dragons, but if you make us come for you, you may never see us coming." Why the anime had them fly it in in broad daylight then had people wonder at how it appeared is beyond me.

[rladls2121]

Wait, then the king is wants to overlook the positive fact that Itami Youji one of the JSDF soldiers was working together with Lelei defeated the dragon treated as part of the Empire proves more possible peace between Japan from an another world.
Wanting only the Empire credit for.
Not to mention Rory, Tuka, and Yao from other foreign races that are also aligned together gives more better relation in their world wide.

Sugawara and the woman by him took that kind of celebration like normal and saying it is no different from any other countries in their world.
I feel kind of bad about the way these two reacted though.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by rladls2121

Wait, then the king is wants to overlook the positive fact that Itami Youji one of the JSDF soldiers was working together with Lelei defeated the dragon treated as part of the Empire proves more possible peace between Japan from an another world.
Wanting only the Empire credit for.
Not to mention Rory, Tuka, and Yao from other foreign races that are also aligned together gives more better relation in their world wide.

The Empire DOESN'T want "better relations". That's not how it works. The Empire wants power over other people. The idea of making friends and get stronger together is not an option for ancient Empires, because the pre-industrial economy doesn't generate enough wealth to support an Empire. An Empire survives by stealing and robbing weaker nations, and then demand heavy taxes from conquered populations. This is done not because the Empire is evil, but because the Empire needed to do this to survive.

You might have noticed that Lelei doesn't act like she is a part of the Empire, and that is because the Empire does nothing for her. The Empire lives off the foreigners they subjugate. This is the cultural clash that caused them to be physically unable to comprehend the Japanese people. The 21st century geopolitics resemble nothing like the old days, and they are effectively space aliens to each other.

Finally, the reason he wanted to give Lelei credit is that he wanted to give the EMPIRE credit. He needed to maintain his nation's honour.

[thundrakkon]

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Originally Posted by rladls2121

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So.... you're saying that the emperor should reward people that are not his citizens, and he has no jurisdiction over? Lelei makes sense, since he recognizes her as a citizen of the empire. It is a bit weird for him to be able to summon any of the other people to give a reward to. Also, politically, he wants to recognize the contributions of his citizens to bolster the appearance of the empire.

Also, remember that Itami received recognition from his government, but that same government didn't give recognition for any of the girls. The same can be said for Duran and the Dark Elf chieftain, who gave recognition for Itami but not the girls.

[rladls2121]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

The Empire DOESN'T want "better relations". That's not how it works. The Empire wants power over other people. The idea of making friends and get stronger together is not an option for ancient Empires, because the pre-industrial economy doesn't generate enough wealth to support an Empire. An Empire survives by stealing and robbing weaker nations, and then demand heavy taxes from conquered populations. This is done not because the Empire is evil, but because the Empire needed to do this to survive.

You might have noticed that Lelei doesn't act like she is a part of the Empire, and that is because the Empire does nothing for her. The Empire lives off the foreigners they subjugate. This is the cultural clash that caused them to be physically unable to comprehend the Japanese people. The 21st century geopolitics resemble nothing like the old days, and they are effectively space aliens to each other.

Finally, the reason he wanted to give Lelei credit is that he wanted to give the EMPIRE credit. He needed to maintain his nation's honour.

So that's some part about what Empire is.
It's really sad.
Also Lelei being used for that political reason.
I wonder how Pina's thoughts on this?
The king really should thank Lelei for being with Itami and the others.
Though my wishful thinking.

Originally Posted by thundrakkon

So.... you're saying that the emperor should reward people that are not his citizens, and he has no jurisdiction over? Lelei makes sense, since he recognizes her as a citizen of the empire. It is a bit weird for him to be able to summon any of the other people to give a reward to. Also, politically, he wants to recognize the contributions of his citizens to bolster the appearance of the empire.

Also, remember that Itami received recognition from his government, but that same government didn't give recognition for any of the girls. The same can be said for Duran and the Dark Elf chieftain, who gave recognition for Itami but not the girls.

No, I'm not talking about the reward.
Still i thought the king gives someone from Japan an appreciation that they all bravely fought the dragons together.
So it gives better light for both Japan and Empire.
And maybe hearing Yao's grateful story about how Rory and Tuka also helped saving the village of Dark Elves, I also thought there might be a great change in a good way.
It is my wishful thinking.


Anyway I understand better now, thank you.

[Brother Coa]

Originally Posted by rladls2121

So that's some part about what Empire is.
It's really sad.

What did you expect?

Empire in GATE is based upon Roman Empire. Rome was influential but they were by no means nice guys. Slavery, extermination of indigenous populations, civil rights only for Roman citizens, military campaigns that burned entire states and left thousands dead in their wake, insane emperor's who did what they wanted etc...

And this are the same guys who brought roads, trade, culture, city constructions, education, right to become citizen and prosper etc...

They are also xenophobic as hell, only it's pointed out toward non-humans rather than non-Imperials.

[Skaddix]

Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf

Thing is Lelei doesn't consider herself of the empire. This came as a shock to one of Piña's knights as the empire never took care of its subjects or its vassals.

Sherry is the other end of the spectrum to Piña a tomboy who doesn't want to be just married off politically. That Piña is mortified at the possibility of being raped as that is the world she lives in. Sherry uses her political savvy to marry the guy she wants. Poor Suragawa not only is he being judge of his actions by his country as a representative but by the rest of the world whose standards Japan adheres to. The age of consent in Japan is 13 years old, even then prefecture have laws to make is older. Sherry is 12 years old but she is backing she'll get her man in 4 years. It just so happens Japan's legal age for marriage for women is 16 years old. I do believe Piña is 17 or 18 with one of her friends already engaged.

For all Molt's fault he did indulge Piña making her knight order even if he thinks it is ceremonial. Piña still loves her father which is more than we can say for Zorzal who smiled at his death.

Sure the law might be 13 but come on did that vice minister look like it all be a okay in her book for Sugawara to do that just because Sherry hits 13. Hell No.

As for Lelei, its not about her, its about the Empire getting their hands on some of the credit. Itami is an enemy so far even if the negotiations are starting. Dark Elves are not citizens of the Empire and the Empire aint big on non humans in general. Rory means as he said glory goes to the Gods again not helping but probably who they would have pinned the medal on without Lelei.

[ReddyRedWolf]

Originally Posted by Skaddix

Sure the law might be 13 but come on did that vice minister look like it all be a okay in her book for Sugawara to do that just because Sherry hits 13. Hell No.

Of course not which is why I said prefectures made the age of consent older.

As for Lelei, its not about her, its about the Empire getting their hands on some of the credit. Itami is an enemy so far even if the negotiations are starting. Dark Elves are not citizens of the Empire and the Empire aint big on non humans in general. Rory means as he said glory goes to the Gods again not helping but probably who they would have pinned the medal on without Lelei.

If Molt didn't die right then Lelei is going to throw back that commendation at their faces and not come at all.

[mysterious]

Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf

If Molt didn't die right then Lelei is going to throw back that commendation at their faces and not come at all.

I wish the emperor get assassinate after the medal ceremony award. It would be fun to see all of the people he tries to give it to turn down until Itami is the last one. I just enjoy seeing those emperors got knock down of their high ..chair

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

The way Lelei was given praise reminds me of how Australia liking to occasionally lay claim to ownership of celebrity New Zealanders when they win awards or accolades, just because they live in Australia.