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Old 2016-04-13, 19:37   Link #35561
jjblue1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mali View Post
I didn't know Natsuhi's age depends on Eva's, too.
George's birthdate is 16th March according to the wikia. Umineko timeline states this:

Quote:
If Battler's statement about George "probably turning 23 this year" is correct, he was born in a narrow range in 1963. However, Battler also says that he is 18, and George is five years older than him. This creates a contradiction since Battler would have to have been born earlier in the year for George to be "turning 23" and if George is turning 23, he's 22 now and therefore, only four years older than Battler.
Hum... to which timeline are you referring?

According to the official timeline George is born in 1963

1963 – 絵羽と秀吉の息子として譲治が誕生。
1963 - Eva and Hideyoshi’s son George is born.

It also confirms that Battler had birth in 1968 on July 15th.

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Originally Posted by Mali View Post
If George gets older, Krauss, Eva and Natsuhi can get older, too.
I'm not sure what you're trying to say but what I was interested in having was confirmation if the wikia had found in some official source those ages or they made it up chosing they could be likely right.
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Old 2016-04-14, 02:53   Link #35562
Mali
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http://umineko.renai.ru → unofficial timeline
I didn't refer the timeline of umineco.info which lists George's birth year as 1964.
So...what is this official timeline you speak of?

I'd rather calculate the estimated birthdates than suggesting the actual birthdates with no sources. Maybe Ryukishi released them on twitter earlier?
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Old 2016-04-14, 11:21   Link #35563
jjblue1
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Originally Posted by Mali View Post
http://umineko.renai.ru → unofficial timeline
I didn't refer the timeline of umineco.info which lists George's birth year as 1964.
So...what is this official timeline you speak of?
Ryukishi had printed a timeline on one of the Umineko official extra books for the VN (the one for EP 8). It's official and had been translated some time ago.

Sadly it doesn't contain everything (for example there's no birth year for the adults) but there's one for the cousins (though only for Battler he listed birthyear and birthday... the others just have their birthyear and that's it)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mali View Post
I'd rather calculate the estimated birthdates than suggesting the actual birthdates with no sources. Maybe Ryukishi released them on twitter earlier?
Everything is possible, that's why I'd like to know if there's a source for those ages or if people just made them up.
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Old 2016-07-07, 18:17   Link #35564
chaos_alfa
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For who hasn't seen it yet.

Somebody is currently reading Umineko and sharing theories and thoughts about it.

He/she has created a thread for it on the "Visual Novels, Mobage & Anime Spin-Off Games" board.

Umineko Playthrough Topic (Progressive spoilers and Discussions)

He/she wants to have some spoiler free discussion about his/her theories.
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Old 2016-07-08, 21:00   Link #35565
immblueversion
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjblue1 View Post
Ryukishi had printed a timeline on one of the Umineko official extra books for the VN (the one for EP 8). It's official and had been translated some time ago.

Sadly it doesn't contain everything (for example there's no birth year for the adults) but there's one for the cousins (though only for Battler he listed birthyear and birthday... the others just have their birthyear and that's it)
I'd like to read this translated timeline. Where might I find it?
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Old 2016-07-10, 13:51   Link #35566
budspencer
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Hello i hope somebody will share their opinions on this. Basically i would like to know is the meta world just something
a)Tohya, Ikuko and Sayo literally wrote in their forgeries so just a part of those 3 peoples stories
b) is it a real place where the souls of people gather or
c) is it just showing metaphorically the struggle of real life characters (Ange and Tohya for example dealing with pain and memories) Thanks
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Old 2016-07-11, 06:16   Link #35567
AuraTwilight
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It's definitely not A, since no one discusses it being a thing that exists in the Forgeries.

B and C seems to come down to a matter of personal interpretation.
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Old 2016-07-11, 10:09   Link #35568
budspencer
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Are the episodes 7 and 8 also "written" they are completely different from the first 6? Is episode 7 just a metaphorical representation then of Ikuko asking Tohya (Will) to check the answers to her theories about the Truth of Rokkenjima and Sayo. And episode 8 of Ange thinking "do i want to read the Diary of Eva" and when she did read it basically just was desperate in her heart, overcame it, and asked Ikuko in real life not to make it public. So that would mean episodes 7 and 8 are not really in the meta world just metaphors maybe im just completely wrong.
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Old 2016-07-11, 10:11   Link #35569
budspencer
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Since Ryukishi said in an interview that "The manga is not a personal interpretation it is the official answer to Umineko" i think we can consider the manga canon also. In the end of the second to last chapter of Episode 8 Beatrice commits suicide (which really happened in Prime?) and a second after that immediately she is in Purgatory with Battler and starts playing the game Legend of the Golden witch with him. So that leads me to believe the Meta world is a real Purgatory where souls of dead people gather to find peace (to access the Golden Land which is Heaven). So i think the meta world story is probably NOT in the forgeries since Beatrice started playing with Battler a few moments after she died (according to the chapter) i dont think she foresaw that ( her and Battlers death and his amnesia at least would be very hard to foresee) in Legend of the witch since she wrote that story BEFORE the incident on Rokkenjima.

Now on the other hand i also think the meta world apart from being a purgatory can also be accessed by living people like Ange and Tohya who have unfinished business so to speak with the people in purgatory (the whole ushiromiya family) and are trying to help the souls in purgatory to reach the golden land (Heaven) and Beatrice did announce to reopen the Golden Land since Battlers soul rejoined them at the end again. Also Ange and Tohyas souls entered it to cope with their own problems in the world of the living. Just my opinion
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Old 2016-07-15, 15:39   Link #35570
Uberzaki
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AuraTwilight View Post
It's definitely not A, since no one discusses it being a thing that exists in the Forgeries.

B and C seems to come down to a matter of personal interpretation.
Yo AT, how is it going?

I remember you saying that you did not believe my idea that the Kanji had anything to do with Lucifer's parallel with... Krauss I think it was?

What would you consider an example of Ryukishi pushing such a thing if it were true that Rudolf was Lucifer at any point in time in the series?
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Old 2016-07-16, 13:17   Link #35571
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Uh. Run that question by me again?
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Old 2016-07-17, 04:49   Link #35572
Uberzaki
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Okay, I will word it differently. You said, that if that were true, Ryukishi would have pushed it. I would like an example of what you think would be of Ryukishi... pushing a naming convention of sorts?

Assuming I wanted to convince you of my argument.

Does that make sense?
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Old 2016-07-17, 12:27   Link #35573
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Uh, probably with a pun that fit his on-the-nose style, like the 34=Lambdadelta=Takano thing. His puns aren't very obscure, and there's no significant naming theme or quirk between Lucifer and Rudolf, or indeed between any of the Sisters of Purgatory and the Siblings.
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Old 2016-08-10, 14:12   Link #35574
Ma-rion
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I deleted this post because I think there are too many flaws there. (even though chaos_alpha is still quoting me)

Last edited by Ma-rion; 2016-08-10 at 18:44.
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Old 2016-08-10, 14:14   Link #35575
chaos_alfa
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Originally Posted by Ma-rion View Post
Hello everyone, Im new to this forum, but I would like to share some ideas of mine. Ill try to not write too much, so Ill leave out the explanations:

1. The world is hell where everything is concurrent.
2. Episode 1 and Episode 6 overlap, Battler/Beato killing Erika in the duel is seen as the duel between Natsuhi/Erika and Beatrice.
3. Natsuhi or better says the evil witch inside of Natsuhi is the culprit, thats why she is the "bullied kid" in every game , has no blessed name (western name) and is not allowed to wear the eagle
4. None of the Ushiromiyas exist, they are all costumes the souls wear. Meaning: they all switch around in the course of the games.
5. Kanon plays "Ushiromiya Battler", Natsuhi plays "Beato" (normally)
6. Since Kanon was already in the loop long before episode 1 began, he went crazy and his heart died, with the evil witch taking over his "room"/costume. Kanons soul if stuffed into the Beato costume. Meaning: From episode 1 onwards "Battler" is "Beato" and "Beato" is "Battler".
7. Natsuhi is the second Beatrice, and she takes revenge on Kanon and abuses him Kinzos story)
8. The world is dreamt up by Kanon when he is on the verge of death because Natsuhi accidently used too much force abusing him and smashed his head
9. In the world all is concurrent and everything is in a loop: Battler becomes Kinzo who abuses the second Beatrice who is Natsuhi and makes Natsuhi throw out a child that is himself, he also has other children like Rudolf, Kyrie etc. who in turn have Battler as their child
10. After Natsuhis abuse, Kanon/Battler/Kinzo abuses Natsuhi as revenge and in return Natsuhi abuses Kanon/Battler, resulting in an eternal torture.
11. In episode 6, Kanon/Battler plays as Beato/Erika etc. while Natsuhis soul is inside of the Battler puppet
12. There are three Natsuhis in this world: Natsuhi, Shannon (young) and Maria, resulting from the three choices Natsuhi can make (test episode 4). Only Maria is the good choice.
13. Maria/Beato/Ikuko are costumes for the good Natsuhi. And they write a story about themselves writing a story about themselves writing a story,....
14. On mount purgatory, Natshuhi and Kanon were mixed up (black and white), to get to know each other and to be able to forgive each other. Both of them are going through what the other one went through- Beato being Battler and Battler being Beato.
15. Kanons/Battlers sin is forgetting to belief in god after learning a certain truth and eating the fruit of knowledge. falling from heaven to paradise
16. Maria is the mother of Jesus, Kanon/Battler created the world, he is "god" of the world (-> Natsuhi is Kanons mother)
17. As soon as god believes in magic, magic becomes real
Have far in are you with reading Umineko? Have you already read Episode 7 and 8?
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Old 2016-08-10, 15:46   Link #35576
Ma-rion
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Originally Posted by chaos_alfa View Post
Have far in are you with reading Umineko? Have you already read Episode 7 and 8?
Hmm, yes. Do you ask because of Sayos confession? I have, but I always thought that there are two stories written at the same time. For example in episode 7, the "magic" Will receives from Bern to look into the hearts of someone being money someone receives for spying. So I always read the story with another reality-meaning, the same applies to the last episodes (same for the manga). We also have the "body language" the characters use (closing left eye and right eye for example) and lines that have to be dubbed in the story. Those aren't explained in this ending.

I missed to ask a question before. Concerning the ------- (in the manga) or . . . . (in the VN). To my understanding, those lines need to be filled by the reader. I think this is what Ronoves barrier of secrey from episode 3 refers to. But my Japanese is not that good, so I wonder if I even can fill them out. I wanted to ask you if someone already did this?

Last edited by Ma-rion; 2016-08-10 at 16:29.
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Old 2016-08-12, 01:17   Link #35577
Ma-rion
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Umineko solved, bam!!!!

(partly and probably, I should say. )

Hello yet again, after having speculated into the wrong direction the last time, I think I made a huge progress Took me a lot of effort! Id be glad if you read it, since I dont think Im all that wrong.

Even though Ryukishi said he did want everyone to get to the answer by him/herself, I believe that the story is not given the credit it deserves with the manga-ending. But there may still be parts that are lacking, so Id be more than happy if you guys could help me

Of course, a story as big as Umineko cant be explained in a few sentences. So my solution is loooong. But: It will certainly be worth your while, if you give it a chance. Its only part 1 for now since Im tired as hell.

Last edited by Ma-rion; 2016-08-12 at 07:57.
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Old 2016-08-12, 01:39   Link #35578
Ma-rion
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Deleted because of too many changes

Last edited by Ma-rion; 2016-08-14 at 12:00.
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Old 2016-08-12, 11:42   Link #35579
AuraTwilight
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Can you tl;dr? I don't understand a word of that link.
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Old 2016-08-13, 04:41   Link #35580
Ma-rion
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Originally Posted by AuraTwilight View Post
Can you tl;dr? I don't understand a word of that link.

Yes, my understanding is like this:

- We are inside the mind of a person who has gone crazy after being kidnapped and abused for many years
- this person looks inside a mirror and finds his one and only friend there - himself - and he sees this self as a girl and falls in love with her (=personality B)
- he invents going into the world of the mirror and meeting many other friends there
- those friends are the furniture from his room, his cousins are for example the sofa and the chair - the only two funiture we still see inside the limits of his heart(=meta-room)
- the Ushiromiya family doesnt exist, but many of them represent his kidnappers, for example Rudolf smoked like Beatrice
- Hideyoshi is actually "Hide" (english) Yoshi or Yoshua - his one personality hides in the mirror and lets his mirror personality take over when he is abused ("always seen as diving into an ocean")
- because of some "joke" (sarcasm), his other personality did, he went nuts and in the course of the game is hitting the mirror over and over again while he cant get out of the dream of being on Rokkenjima
- first he invented being Ushiromiya Battler, but this person always lost in the games
- so after going even more crazy, his other self comes to help him on a "white boat", which is probably "white baord" (bo-to -> bo-do)
- he then switched subconsciously to Beatrice and tortures his other self, still believing that its him
- at the end he switches back to being Battler
- the two personalities represent the left and right arm
- all the games are "rehashed" memories, because he cant get out of his dreams (-> food metaphor)

Sorry, I cant make it shorter
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