(L+CR) Overlord Season 3

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Tak

I am guessing you have not read the novel (up to volume 13 now)?

Also, Enri is not seeking independence of any kind, and that is not a spoiler.

- Tak

I have read it. And I stand by what I said. Her village is hers, not Ainz's.

[Yan3242]

Her village is hers, not Ainz's.

hers or not, enri is just a simple villager who happen to get promoted into leader thanks to the horn. if you put aside that, she is just like everyone else in the village, they just want to live normally.

i doubt enri or even anyone in the village has deep thinking like price of freedom or anything like that, they all just a backwater villager, none of them has any politic or military knowledge.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Yan3242

hers or not, enri is just a simple villager who happen to get promoted into leader thanks to the horn. if you put aside that, she is just like everyone else in the village, they just want to live normally.

i doubt enri or even anyone in the village has deep thinking like price of freedom or anything like that, they all just a backwater villager, none of them has any politic or military knowledge.

Enri might be a low level General, but she is 100% a General none the less. And being the village chief, she is a politician whether she calls herself that or not. In the New World, you gain skills by doing things, not by allocating points.

And by officially rebelling against the former crown prince, her village is now an independent fiefdom. Enri is now the ruler of her own land, and they are now on their own with no government except Enri being their mini sovereign. This is not what Enri wanted, but this is what has happened and there is no turning back. It might have been possible to negotiate with the kingdom had the prince escaped, but his death in the hands of Lupus now made it impossible.

What Enri wants, has very little with what Enri is stuck with. She just had to roll with the cards she was dealt. Being the leader of the 3rd strongest military force on the continent, with Ainz's army being 1st and the Theocracy being 2nd. That's right, currently Enri has a stronger army than even the Empire. And there are consequences to that.

[GreyZone]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

Enri might be a low level General, but she is 100% a General none the less. And being the village chief, she is a politician whether she calls herself that or not. In the New World, you gain skills by doing things, not by allocating points.

And by officially rebelling against the former crown prince, her village is now an independent fiefdom. Enri is now the ruler of her own land, and they are now on their own with no government except Enri being their mini sovereign. This is not what Enri wanted, but this is what has happened and there is no turning back. It might have been possible to negotiate with the kingdom had the prince escaped, but his death in the hands of Lupus now made it impossible.

What Enri wants, has very little with what Enri is stuck with. She just had to roll with the cards she was dealt. Being the leader of the 3rd strongest military force on the continent, with Ainz's army being 1st and the Theocracy being 2nd. That's right, currently Enri has a stronger army than even the Empire. And there are consequences to that.

But considering Nphirea is still Ainz's "potion expert" and the fact that Carne is practically right next to Nazarick and adding the fact that all the humans in the village feel very grateful and indebted towards Ainz, including Enri herself, it would make much more sense that she becomes a part of the upcoming Sorcerer Kingdom. At best she'd be the equivalent of a noble with her own fief who is cited as model example of various races co-existing. There is no advantage whatsoever to make themselves independent. If anything it would put them in harms way, since other nations would constantly try to get her to betray Ainz in such a situation.

[Keila]

Dead men tell no tales (unless someone manipulates their corpse to drag the memories out, performs some sort of resurrection, but that technically makes them no longer dead) and as far as we know

• None of the troops with the 1st prince made it out alive
• No messengers/runners ever made it from the princes party back to the kingdom.


In a world full of man-eating monsters it really wouldn't be all that strange for a party (5,000 strong or otherwise) to be attacked and go missing in action. The prince was 'ordered' to Carne village (which is apparently a remote village at the edge of the kingdom/borders a forest full of who knows what) and beyond that there shouldn't be any other verifiable information as to their location or actions (it's not like there are spy satellites and gps trackers). They could have been intercepted by an extremely powerful vampire (for all they know) or xyz (mystery of the world).

As long as any bodies/equipment are disposed of (and literally a hole in the ground would be fine, maybe a really really deep hole where ogres relieve themselves, assuming ogres have bodily functions and need to perform such actions) in a semi-careful manner there shouldn't be any mechanism/evidence to prove otherwise.



The 'war demands' were effectively for the 'land near E-Rantel', how close is Carne Village to E-Rantel, is it within 'near proximity', etc?

• If no-one is aware of treachery, has treachery actually occurred?
• If the Kingdom wins the war (and thus the demands of the Empire are not fulfilled) and no-one is aware that Carne fought against the 1st Prince for what reasons would the Kingdom not consider Carne as still part of the Kingdom?
• Would you expect Carne Villagers to suddenly become hostile to non-hostile outsiders who are otherwise completely in the dark about events that have transpired?
• If the demands of the Empire are fulfilled it means yielding the land near E-Rantel, would Carne Village be considered near E-Rantel and thus been released from the Kingdom anyway (regardless of any fight with the 1st Prince).



It would have been nice if we could see a nice definitive map (e.g. from the empires original request) that made it clear what the demand was (visual, not word form) but I can't imagine the kingdom willingly giving up their territory (which, is the basis for not yielding in the first place), so from their perspective (assuming the Kingdom wins the war)

○ First Prince is MIA
○ Carne Village status (as a village within the Kingdom's dominion) is unchanged
○ Carne Villagers (assuming they can feign ignorance) would still be your normal nobodies who live in a remote village at the edge of a kingdom who sometimes visit E-Rantel (assuming that is your nearest town)

[eiyuuou]

I strongly doubt others would even consider her as an independent lord
but someone already in liege with ainz, especially the village went from an unguarded one to one with thousands of demihumans after meeting ainz.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

I'd like to point out one thing: this episode could've been more suspenseful if they don't include Ains & Lupusregina's parts in the middle. They could've shuffled Ains' theory about the horn and make it appear after the big battle and only show Lupusregina at the end because her earlier conversation with Ains didn't really add anything and only repeating something that we've already known. Just my 2cents.

[Tak]

Enri did not open the village and rebelled against the Prince because the entire village pretty much pledged fealty towards Ainz already. With Ainz's ultimate goal being taking over the world, annexation of Carne is only a matter of time. The question is how and when.

And despite having the third most powerful army, she is not aware of this, neither do other countries. Ainz effectively stole all the spotlight, and Enri has no interest in any shape or form to flex her military muscle any time soon.

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

I'd like to point out one thing: this episode could've been more suspenseful if they don't include Ains & Lupusregina's parts in the middle. They could've shuffled Ains' theory about the horn and make it appear after the big battle and only show Lupusregina at the end because her earlier conversation with Ains didn't really add anything and only repeating something that we've already known. Just my 2cents.

This episode forced the inclusion of Ainz and Mare that weren't in the original novels, where the Carne Village battle was essentially 'another war', which corresponded to the much larger war between the Empire and the Kingdom. I thought their inclusions were unnecessary, and played too close to ruin characterization. This is almost a filler episode with conversations as means to save budget for the next one.

- Tak

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by Tak

This episode forced the inclusion of Ainz and Mare that weren't in the original novels, where the Carne Village battle was essentially 'another war', which corresponded to the much larger war between the Empire and the Kingdom. I thought their inclusions were unnecessary, and played too close to ruin characterization. This is almost a filler episode with conversations as means to save budget for the next one.

- Tak

They need some way to explain what happened with the Horn, and I think this way was neater than just having a narrator explain it.

[GreyZone]

Originally Posted by Tak

This episode forced the inclusion of Ainz and Mare that weren't in the original novels, where the Carne Village battle was essentially 'another war', which corresponded to the much larger war between the Empire and the Kingdom. I thought their inclusions were unnecessary, and played too close to ruin characterization. This is almost a filler episode with conversations as means to save budget for the next one.

- Tak

It was necessary to include because it would have been totally weird to suddenly introduce a narrator near the end of the third season. I think the novel had various scenes with an omniscient narrator, but the anime didn't even have one. So the only one who could explain the horn was Ainz, hence what we ended up with.

Also the EEHHHH?! by both invisible Lupusregina and Ainz was completely priceless.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by Endscape

They need some way to explain what happened with the Horn, and I think this way was neater than just having a narrator explain it.

Originally Posted by GreyZone

It was necessary to include because it would have been totally weird to suddenly introduce a narrator near the end of the third season. I think the novel had various scenes with an omniscient narrator, but the anime didn't even have one. So the only one who could explain the horn was Ainz, hence what we ended up with.

Except how the horn worked was never explained in the LN, either.

I think it's more effective to have Enri contemplate on how the horn worked the way it did in the episode (while acting as first person narrator) than to have Ainz & Mare acting as tournament spectators, which almost ruined Ainz's characterization had he divulged anything else.

- Tak

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by Tak

Except how the horn worked was never explained in the LN, either.

It was explained, though.

I think it's more effective to have Enri contemplate on how the horn worked the way it did in the episode (while acting as first person narrator)

Enri doesn't have enough info to even began to understand it, so that would be pointless.

which almost ruined Ainz's characterization had he divulged anything else.

Ainz is always almost going out of character

[Solace]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

I'd like to point out one thing: this episode could've been more suspenseful if they don't include Ains & Lupusregina's parts in the middle. They could've shuffled Ains' theory about the horn and make it appear after the big battle and only show Lupusregina at the end because her earlier conversation with Ains didn't really add anything and only repeating something that we've already known. Just my 2cents.

I didn't mind Ainz viewing the battle. His reaction was worth it. But his musing about how it happened should have been shared at the end of the episode, just before he told his maid to finish the job.

I liked the episode but honestly, the cg really ruined it. I know cg is cost effective, but this was seriously low effort. I'd rather watch recycled animation than soldiers bouncing off shields like rubber.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by Endscape

It was explained, though.

The novel listed three conditions, and then... cut!

Originally Posted by Endscape

Enri doesn't have enough info to even began to understand it, so that would be pointless.

Neither does Ainz. Both Ainz and Enri's understanding of the horn is that it can summon 20 goblins, that's it. Ainz himself considered that a trash item. The narration part of Enri I am asking for is to have her being surprised and contemplating on how it was able to summon a legion of Goblins when previously, she only gathered 20.

As I mentioned earlier, Ainz wasn't even in this episode of the same LN volume. He only came as a mention near the end, when Lup & Red Goblins (presumably summoned by Ainz) were asked to destroy the Prince's entire army (himself included).

Something tells me that Lup purposely made the report to Ainz late, just so she can enjoy some wanton blood & carnage.

Originally Posted by Solace

I liked the episode but honestly, the cg really ruined it. I know cg is cost effective, but this was seriously low effort. :

It was pretty bad. The CG in season II was done better with the Lizardmen. But this episode is worse than a Total War game.

- Tak

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by Tak

The novel listed three conditions, and then... cut!

The novel mentioned the history behind the item and how no one in YGGDRASIL ever figured out this secret ability as well.

Neither does Ainz. Both Ainz and Enri's understanding of the horn is that it can summon 20 goblins, that's it.

Ainz knows about the item and how unprecedented what Enri did is.

The narration part of Enri I am asking for is to have her being surprised and contemplating on how it was able to summon a legion of Goblins when previously, she only gathered 20.

Enri doesn't know about YGGDRASIL or that the horn was a trash item and that she's the first person to summon a Goblin army. She'd probably just think "It's magic!" and leave it at that.

As I mentioned earlier, Ainz wasn't even in this episode of the same LN volume. He only came as a mention near the end, when Lup & Red Goblins (presumably summoned by Ainz) were asked to destroy the Prince's entire army (himself included).

The only people that could explain it are Ainz or an omniscient narrator, and it makes no sense to bring in a narrator now.

Originally Posted by Solace

I didn't mind Ainz viewing the battle. His reaction was worth it. But his musing about how it happened should have been shared at the end of the episode, just before he told his maid to finish the job.

They probably wanted to maintain the timeflow. Plus Ainz's murmurings would have taken away from the creepy atmosphere at the end there.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Solace

I liked the episode but honestly, the cg really ruined it

At this point, I think that goes without saying .

[Tak]

Originally Posted by Endscape

The novel mentioned the history behind the item and how no one in YGGDRASIL ever figured out this secret ability as well.

Yeah, that's my point. The novel stated no one in YGG figured it out, and only listed three conditions but never explained what they were.

Originally Posted by Endscape

Ainz knows about the item and how unprecedented what Enri did is.

No mention of this. Not in Chapter 3, 4 or the epilogue of Volume 9.

- - - - -

Ainz himself said in Season I and Volume 1 that the horns were earned through some random gachapon event and considered them trash. His understanding of the horn is no better than Enri's at this moment, except knowing where it came from.

Originally Posted by Endscape

Enri doesn't know about YGGDRASIL or that the horn was a trash item and that she's the first person to summon a Goblin army. She'd probably just think "It's magic!" and leave it at that.

I didn't ask for an explanation, I asked to have her contemplate. Personally, I don't even think that is necessary. The entirety of chapter 3 and this episode would have worked well without a narrator anyway, since the narrator was pretty useless.

- Tak

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Oh btw, as someone pointed out before, I got a good laugh when I saw the Goblin Zhuge Liang for the first time. This is one of those rare times where I'm LOL-ing due to a character's appearance and the irony of it .

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by Tak

Yeah, that's my point. The novel stated no one in YGG figured it out, and only listed three conditions but never explained what they were.

I never said it did though. The novel doesn't need to explain the conditions, it just needs to tell us that Enri is the first person ever to unlock this ability.

No he doesn't. Not in Chapter 3 or 4 of Volume 9.

The omniscient narrator in Chapter 3 said that no one ever discovered the item's ability in YGGDRASIL, so no, he couldn't have known about it.

Ainz himself said in Season I that the horn was earned through some random gachapon event and considered them trash. His understanding of the horn is no better than Enri's at this moment, except knowing where it came from.

He knows that she did something unprecedented, which she doesn't.

I didn't ask for an explanation, I asked to have her contemplate.

Enri isn't the type to contemplate about magic, even if she was, her lack of knowledge about the horn makes her contemplation pointless.

Personally, I don't even think that is necessary. The entirety of chapter 3 worked well without a narrator anyway.

Except there was a narrator in that chapter.

The thing had to be explained somehow, so it's better to use Ainz here, since the anime has never had a narrator before. We even got some jokes out of it, so it's value for money, really.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by Endscape

I never said it did though. The novel doesn't need to explain the conditions, it just needs to tell us that Enri is the first person ever to unlock this ability.

Lup pretty much did just that near the end of the chapter/episode. Really, the look on Enri's confused face would have been enough to tell us Enri did something unprecedented.

Originally Posted by Endscape

The omniscient narrator in Chapter 3 said that no one ever discovered the item's ability in YGGDRASIL, so no, he couldn't have known about it.

Right, I am not disagreeing with you on this.

Originally Posted by Endscape

He knows that she did something unprecedented, which she doesn't.

That's a big maybe. The LN did not say anything about Ainz's reaction to Enri summoning a legion of Goblins.

Originally Posted by Endscape

Except there was a narrator in that chapter.

Who did a poor job in my opinion.

Originally Posted by Endscape

The thing had to be explained somehow, so it's better to use Ainz here, since the anime has never had a narrator before. We even got some jokes out of it, so it's value for money, really.

Which would have been fine except Ainz almost contradicted himself. The saving grace to that is it wasn't Ainz talking, but Satoru at the time.

- Tak