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ion475 · 2010-12-13, 19:31

Quote:

So you're argument is this: the development has yet to arrive in the series because they are clearly saving it for the final moments. OK. I will make sure to bring this up again at the end of this series.

But at this point of the story, no such answers are given. We are at the tail end already. We should already be receiving this information. Also, the LN is no justification for anything in the anime. The anime is supposed to be able to stand up on its own.

(BTW the end of Kanon was very, very badly written into the story)

It's an adaptation. Don't like it? I'm pretty sure people would be pissed if the animator just come up with some lame reason just to wrap things up. We've see many of those before...

And trust me, by the time they finally reveal what's make the relation gone sour is the time the novel ends, which is probably at least a year from now.

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And while I don't go as far as thinking of the anime as a spin-off, I also doesn't expect it to be perfectly faithful. Yes, a perfectly faithful adaptation would be excellent, but sometimes it's hard to adapt something to another form, and sometimes some changes needed to be made. Sometimes that change really change the story from the original source, but as long as it's still a good story, I don't mind the alternate re-telling. Of course, the problem with that is that you have to make sure that it's really good, as it will no doubt be compared to the original source. And if it's good but not as good, it won't be accepted well. Which...may be the case here, I haven't read the LN but the way I see it, while not a complete butchering some details that are changed / left out makes it compare less favorably than the LN.

I'm a novel reader, and for the most part the adaptation is faithful (other than Episode 8, which while I hate but understand why they change it, and Episode 9, which IS an original that I actually enjoyed). Yes, they left out minor things here and there, sometimes making transition a bit abrupt, and other times left out the "comedy" part of the story.

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Her behavior is anything but classic "tsundere." It's more psychopathic than anything.

I guess you can't accept a character that don't quite have stereotypical behavior. So what if Kirino is not a classic "tsundere"? That's what make Kirino unique. You don't necessarily have to like her behavior, but that's Kirino being Kirino.

Quote:

Well yeah, a lot of people do that - most of the time, the only reason people watches tsunderes is to her deredere in the end. In fact, I think I read somewhere in the To Aru thread that someone watches the thing not for the plot with all its actions, nor the great settings and world buildings with interesting characters, but just to see Misaka Mikoto's dere moments. Different strokes for different folks, I guess . Personally, the one development I really want to see is the story about their past; but this one is good enough, if a bit out of nowhere.

It's just that Index has a boring personality (Other than "I'm hungry" and biting Touma, what have she ever done anyway?)...so of course people focus on the "secondary" heroine (I have to use quote since there are people that consider Misaka as the true main heroine).

(Off topic, I'm one of those that catch Toaru (Both Index and Railgun) for Misaka's tsundere moment, mainly b/c Kuroko don't appear often enough

, especially in Index...)

totoum · 2010-12-13, 19:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Triple_R

It's great to see Kyousuke starting to stand up for himself more often, and to lay things out frankly and honestly when it's called for.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Triple_R

It's also great to see that Kirino is similarly capable of being frank and honest when the need arises, and can show a softer side of herself at times.

With people remarking how sudden Kirino went dere it makes me think one behavior triggered the other,as if Kirono was looking to see how far she could go before her brother snapped and once he does that makes her dere.Maybe if he would stand up more for himself Kirino would show her dere side more often too?

Master Chibi · 2010-12-13, 19:38

Man, at this point it doesn't matter anymore.

I hated her from the start, I hated the real lack of definable development, I hated her getting everything done for her, and in the beginning half of this episode I was mind bendingly furious at her in regards to how she was acting with Manami-chan. She's the most unlikable, bitchiest bitch I've EVER seen in anime. I didn't dislike her being 'tsun' all the time, I just didn't like HER. The show did an awful job in that regards, I kept falling for everyone else; sympathy for her brother, curiosity for Saori, adoring Kuroneko, enjoyment of Manami's relationship; they were all infinitely more interesting. All I got from Kirino was redundancy. You're a bitch, you like anime, you can't really handle your 'true feelings' (or whatever the hell is wrong with her), I get it. Fine. Take your time, but I still dislike you. This is what the anime gave me, and this is what I have to work with. If there's no incident behind this all, and she's naturally this way, fine. I just don't want to be lead on to believe there is.

Which is why for the second half, I am in a complete state of satisfaction. I sympathized with her brother, NOT her. He got an apology, Kirino cracked that stubborn outer shell of hers just a bit, and laughed at it all in the end. This is what the show should continue doing. Running into that bro-con shit later is going to ruin this, as crazy as it sounds I'd rather she continue being a bitch. For the rest of her life. That's just who she is.

As is though, I'm sure she'll make a 180 completely down the line, and they'll start banging each other or whatever. Maybe it's inevitable, maybe it's not.

For now though, I'm good.

Thanks.

Reckoner · 2010-12-13, 19:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by ion475

It's an adaptation. Don't like it? I'm pretty sure people would be pissed if the animator just come up with some lame reason just to wrap things up. We've see many of those before...

You realize this anime is going to have an original ending? Two of them at that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ion475

And trust me, by the time they finally reveal what's make the relation gone sour is the time the novel ends, which is probably at least a year from now.

Read above.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ion475

I guess you can't accept a character that don't quite have stereotypical behavior. So what if Kirino is not a classic "tsundere"? That's what make Kirino unique. You don't necessarily have to like her behavior, but that's Kirino being Kirino.

Strawman.

iLney · 2010-12-13, 19:56

Wow, if the episode was divided into 2 parts: in the house and at the party, each deserves 8-9/10. Putting them together is phail... at so many levels.

ion475 · 2010-12-13, 21:00

Quote:

You realize this anime is going to have an original ending? Two of them at that.

IMO...I was one of the first person to post the news, of course I know...

And only the "Good End" is original. "True End" follows the novel.

God knows whether they'll show the reason why Kirino and Kyousuke become distant in the first place in "Good End". It can certainly go that route, but that's next week for you...

kitten320 · 2010-12-13, 21:10

That was... sudden? 0_o

Felt more like a last episode...

It seemed really random... first Kirino is all jealous and nasty towards Manami, luckily Manami is an accepting person and the "glasses fact" gave her hope.

And then suddenly out of nowhere Kirini is all cute and apologetic? How dose that work? It is like if they had cut out at least 1-2 episodes in between those two scenes...

About good parts... at least she had finally said sorry!
Liked Kuroneko in her outfit and especially her real life manga about those two. She surely must know the best about Kirino's not so sisterly feelings for him.
Once again Kuroneko proved to be a good friend, she purposely was trying to make Kirino jealouse and she sure does great job at that. And then the handkechief scene...

I really wouldn't mind to have friends like her and Saori.

An4rchy99 · 2010-12-13, 21:21

Kirino's reaction was a bit mixed however I loved this episode. Not because Kirino was being nice, but for once she was being honest about how she really felt

DasDingus · 2010-12-13, 21:37

Well that was quite the entertaining episode. Manami continues to be adorable and Kuroneko is an epic troll with her "presentation." I probably laughed out loud at this episode as much as I have at any in this series. In particular the scene where Kuroneko called Kyouske onii-chan reminded me a lot of Sunohara Mei of CLANNAD complete with the same VA playing the male part.

I'm not sold on kirino being deredere yet. The way I see it they can go one of several directions with this.

1) This apology and kindness could all be an act designed to cause her friends and brother to let her have her way. In my opinion this would be completely in line with how she's behaved thus far. She's a grade-A phony when she wants to be.

2) The apology and kindness were real but she still needs to get used to being kind in public to somebody she sees as inferior to herself. This would be acceptable and if she struggles with this but eventually comes to have a relatively normal relationship with her brother it would show considerable growth on her part and be a fulfilling result.

3) The apology and kindness were real and now Kirino is all deredere and all her past bitchiness is forgiven. This would be a highly disappointing result in my opinion. I doubt this will happen if they plant to continue the show since if Kirino has no tsun there is no show.

4) The apology and kindness were real but Kirino will continue to switch between tsun and dere for almost no reason. If this show is supposed to just be a comedy with no real plot then these changes could be played for laughs. However I think (hope?) that there will be actual development in the main characters rather than Kirino showing whatever emotion the scene calls for.

As far as feeling sympathy for Kirino, I think that her actions need to be reasonable or justified on at least some level for her to garner any amount of sympathy. Sympathy implies to me that the viewer on some level understands the characters' motives regardless of whether he/she agrees with them. When a character's behavior is in no way justified by the behavior around her on screen then it's impossible to feel sympathy for her.

Finally, in regards to some kind of past event that led to Kirino and Kyouske's distant relationship, do we have any kind of confirmation that such an explanation is forthcoming? Or is this simply speculation designed to explain the seemingly inexplicable behavior of the main characters? Even if such an explanation is on the way, it is far overdue. Kirino has been behaving in an inexcusable way for far too long for a past event to be revealed now and make it ok from the viewer's point of view. With no foreshadowing, patching in a justification seemingly after the fact would just ring hollow.

-Sho- · 2010-12-13, 21:51

I admit that this episode was quite hilarious and cute.
As usual , Kirino's jealousy toward Manami , she was rude , the trap's part was hilarious.
And amazing , Kyousuke is a glasses girls fetish

which increase the hope for Manami *YES*
The beginning with the eroge made it great too ^^ 9/10 !

2nd half , i agree , the sudden change was fast . But well , at least Kirino apologized and was more honest. Now , we have the Tsundere.
Imo , it would have been better with more development.
Btw Kuroneko was too cute in that cat maid :O

A question , what happened to Kirino's anime ?

Divini · 2010-12-13, 21:57

So yeah.

I want to read the rest of Kuroneko's manga.

Iansheng · 2010-12-13, 21:57

To me the funniest part of the first half would be

Spoiler for Episode 11 Possible Spoiler:

She can be pretty naughty if she wants to!

bhl88 · 2010-12-13, 22:03

The summary of the second part can be:

demonkevy666 · 2010-12-13, 22:04

everyone seems to have skipped over one main fact. ( for me it's a fact anyways)
respect is earned not given.

Triple_R · 2010-12-13, 22:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by totoum

With people remarking how sudden Kirino went dere it makes me think one behavior triggered the other,as if Kirono was looking to see how far she could go before her brother snapped and once he does that makes her dere.Maybe if he would stand up more for himself Kirino would show her dere side more often too?

That's an interesting theory, and it works for me.

Maybe Kirino simply can't bring herself to be nice to people that she doesn't respect. And one way to earn her respect is by showing a spine and being willing to stand up for yourself.

If we look at the people that Kirino has been particularly harsh with...

1. Kyousuke - Probably sees him as overly passive in general, and maybe even viewing him as too casually wasting his life away.

2. Kuroneko - Kirino finds it hard to respect someone with such poor taste in anime (as Kirino sees it).

Kuroneko's active cosplay might also strike Kirino as Kuroneko being a bit too pretentious.

3. Manami - Kirino might think that Manami is too self-sacrificing, and makes things way too easy for Kyousuke.

Meanwhile, Kirino seems to get along fairly well with Saori, who's calm leadership has earned her Kirino's respect, I think. And, in a strange way, Ayase being so honest about her dislike of Kirino's hobby might have actually impressed Kirino: It can take guts to harshly critique someone's passionate hobby to his or her face.

Now, I'm not writing this to defend Kirino - just as an attempt to try to better understand her character. At the very least, I think it's a plausible theory on her character.

Vexx · 2010-12-13, 22:51

Just watched the raw.

Good lord, I had a flashback when Kuroneko got all cuddly there. Reminded me of when I was a teenager and my future wife did something like that to get my attention on a group date. She's asian, small, and petite like Kuroneko and has a similar hairstyle. Totally smitten... spear thru heart, the whole bit. Kyou head should have exploded.

edit: just noticed my usual source of subs has appeared.

DasDingus · 2010-12-13, 23:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Meanwhile, Kirino seems to get along fairly well with Saori, who's calm leadership has earned her Kirino's respect, I think. And, in a strange way, Ayase being so honest about her dislike of Kirino's hobby might have actually impressed Kirino: It can take guts to harshly critique someone's passionate hobby to his or her face.

Kirino was extremely cold to Saori when Ayase ran into the group as they were leaving the convention. Beyond that I feel her actions towards Saori have been indifferent at best. Also based on the scene in Kirino's bedroom we saw last episode I feel like Kirino has ceased to treat Ayase kindly since Ayase found out about her hobby (or at least not with the same reverence she had beforehand.) To me Kirino's behavior indicates more a desire to maintain her appearance as the "model" daughter, model (hah), and friend rather than a need for somebody to show a spine to be treated kindly. She clearly has some kind of weird brocon/past conflict going with Kyouske which I don't feel has been particularly well characterized so far.

pagan poor · 2010-12-13, 23:39

I didn't take this episode seriously. I just laughed at all the gags and not worried about all the other stuff. Kyousuke should hit it up with the receptionist.

Saten_ · 2010-12-14, 00:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dahak86

GIFs for ep11 =>

Spoiler:

Good work!
And, uh, you've some nice GUI mkv->gif, or you're just taking snapsshots and resembling them manually using a gif maker program?

Guardian Enzo · 2010-12-14, 00:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vexx

Just watched the raw.

Good lord, I had a flashback when Kuroneko got all cuddly there. Reminded me of when I was a teenager and my future wife did something like that to get my attention on a group date. She's asian, small, and petite like Kuroneko and has a similar hairstyle. Totally smitten... spear thru heart, the whole bit. Kyou head should have exploded.

edit: just noticed my usual source of subs has appeared.

I think my head did explode. My God - could she possibly be more adorable? Kuroneko is just a scene-stealer, plain and simple.

Spoiler for 11 and beyond:

View Poll Results: Ore no Imouto - Episode 11 Rating
Perfect 10	65	49.62%
9 out of 10 : Excellent	37	28.24%
8 out of 10 : Very Good	14	10.69%
7 out of 10 : Good	8	6.11%
6 out of 10 : Average	3	2.29%
5 out of 10 : Below Average	1	0.76%
4 out of 10 : Poor	0	0%
3 out of 10 : Bad	1	0.76%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad	0	0%
1 out of 10 : Painful	2	1.53%
Voters: 131. You may not vote on this poll

2010-12-13, 19:38	Link #123
Master Chibi .: A bad doggy :. Join Date: Jun 2007	Man, at this point it doesn't matter anymore. I hated her from the start, I hated the real lack of definable development, I hated her getting everything done for her, and in the beginning half of this episode I was mind bendingly furious at her in regards to how she was acting with Manami-chan. She's the most unlikable, bitchiest bitch I've EVER seen in anime. I didn't dislike her being 'tsun' all the time, I just didn't like HER. The show did an awful job in that regards, I kept falling for everyone else; sympathy for her brother, curiosity for Saori, adoring Kuroneko, enjoyment of Manami's relationship; they were all infinitely more interesting. All I got from Kirino was redundancy. You're a bitch, you like anime, you can't really handle your 'true feelings' (or whatever the hell is wrong with her), I get it. Fine. Take your time, but I still dislike you. This is what the anime gave me, and this is what I have to work with. If there's no incident behind this all, and she's naturally this way, fine. I just don't want to be lead on to believe there is. Which is why for the second half, I am in a complete state of satisfaction. I sympathized with her brother, NOT her. He got an apology, Kirino cracked that stubborn outer shell of hers just a bit, and laughed at it all in the end. This is what the show should continue doing. Running into that bro-con shit later is going to ruin this, as crazy as it sounds I'd rather she continue being a bitch. For the rest of her life. That's just who she is. As is though, I'm sure she'll make a 180 completely down the line, and they'll start banging each other or whatever. Maybe it's inevitable, maybe it's not. For now though, I'm good. Thanks. __________________ ~Hai! Back to Japan! Updated once a week - http://pishi.wordpress.com/ Last updated - 5/30/10 - Random Manga Roulette! Last edited by Master Chibi; 2010-12-14 at 14:52.*

2010-12-13, 21:10	Link #127
kitten320 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007	That was... sudden? 0_o Felt more like a last episode... It seemed really random... first Kirino is all jealous and nasty towards Manami, luckily Manami is an accepting person and the "glasses fact" gave her hope. And then suddenly out of nowhere Kirini is all cute and apologetic? How dose that work? It is like if they had cut out at least 1-2 episodes in between those two scenes... About good parts... at least she had finally said sorry! Liked Kuroneko in her outfit and especially her real life manga about those two. She surely must know the best about Kirino's not so sisterly feelings for him. Once again Kuroneko proved to be a good friend, she purposely was trying to make Kirino jealouse and she sure does great job at that. And then the handkechief scene... I really wouldn't mind to have friends like her and Saori. __________________ My anime list

2010-12-13, 21:21	Link #128
An4rchy99 ♥ Ophy~chan ♥ Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: In a 2D paradise	Kirino's reaction was a bit mixed however I loved this episode. Not because Kirino was being nice, but for once she was being honest about how she really felt __________________

2010-12-13, 21:37	Link #129
DasDingus Dango Daikaizoku Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Southern California	Well that was quite the entertaining episode. Manami continues to be adorable and Kuroneko is an epic troll with her "presentation." I probably laughed out loud at this episode as much as I have at any in this series. In particular the scene where Kuroneko called Kyouske onii-chan reminded me a lot of Sunohara Mei of CLANNAD complete with the same VA playing the male part. I'm not sold on kirino being deredere yet. The way I see it they can go one of several directions with this. 1) This apology and kindness could all be an act designed to cause her friends and brother to let her have her way. In my opinion this would be completely in line with how she's behaved thus far. She's a grade-A phony when she wants to be. 2) The apology and kindness were real but she still needs to get used to being kind in public to somebody she sees as inferior to herself. This would be acceptable and if she struggles with this but eventually comes to have a relatively normal relationship with her brother it would show considerable growth on her part and be a fulfilling result. 3) The apology and kindness were real and now Kirino is all deredere and all her past bitchiness is forgiven. This would be a highly disappointing result in my opinion. I doubt this will happen if they plant to continue the show since if Kirino has no tsun there is no show. 4) The apology and kindness were real but Kirino will continue to switch between tsun and dere for almost no reason. If this show is supposed to just be a comedy with no real plot then these changes could be played for laughs. However I think (hope?) that there will be actual development in the main characters rather than Kirino showing whatever emotion the scene calls for. As far as feeling sympathy for Kirino, I think that her actions need to be reasonable or justified on at least some level for her to garner any amount of sympathy. Sympathy implies to me that the viewer on some level understands the characters' motives regardless of whether he/she agrees with them. When a character's behavior is in no way justified by the behavior around her on screen then it's impossible to feel sympathy for her. Finally, in regards to some kind of past event that led to Kirino and Kyouske's distant relationship, do we have any kind of confirmation that such an explanation is forthcoming? Or is this simply speculation designed to explain the seemingly inexplicable behavior of the main characters? Even if such an explanation is on the way, it is far overdue. Kirino has been behaving in an inexcusable way for far too long for a past event to be revealed now and make it ok from the viewer's point of view. With no foreshadowing, patching in a justification seemingly after the fact would just ring hollow. __________________ Twitter\|MAL\|Blog

2010-12-13, 19:56	Link #125
iLney Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008	Wow, if the episode was divided into 2 parts: in the house and at the party, each deserves 8-9/10. Putting them together is phail... at so many levels.

2010-12-13, 21:51	Link #130
-Sho- ~Omedetô~ Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Somewhere between heaven and hell !	I admit that this episode was quite hilarious and cute. As usual , Kirino's jealousy toward Manami , she was rude , the trap's part was hilarious. And amazing , Kyousuke is a glasses girls fetish which increase the hope for Manami YES The beginning with the eroge made it great too ^^ 9/10 ! 2nd half , i agree , the sudden change was fast . But well , at least Kirino apologized and was more honest. Now , we have the Tsundere. Imo , it would have been better with more development. Btw Kuroneko was too cute in that cat maid :O A question , what happened to Kirino's anime ?

2010-12-13, 21:57	Link #131
Divini Senpai! Join Date: Mar 2007	So yeah. I want to read the rest of Kuroneko's manga.

2010-12-13, 21:57	Link #132
Iansheng Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2008	To me the funniest part of the first half would be Spoiler for Episode 11 Possible Spoiler: neighbor girl's reaction to Kirino's traps! Wouldn't the normal reaction be disgust? Instead, she asks if Kyo wanted her to call her onii-chan! Hahaha! She can be pretty naughty if she wants to!

2010-12-13, 22:03	Link #133
bhl88 Otaku Apprentice Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Unseen Horizon	The summary of the second part can be: __________________ OS-tan Collections (temporary): https://discord.gg/Hv2rBs3

2010-12-13, 22:04	Link #134
demonkevy666 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: the bowls of hell.	everyone seems to have skipped over one main fact. ( for me it's a fact anyways) respect is earned not given.

2010-12-13, 22:51	Link #136
Vexx Obey the Darkly Cute ... Author Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ... Age: 66	Just watched the raw. Good lord, I had a flashback when Kuroneko got all cuddly there. Reminded me of when I was a teenager and my future wife did something like that to get my attention on a group date. She's asian, small, and petite like Kuroneko and has a similar hairstyle. Totally smitten... spear thru heart, the whole bit. Kyou head should have exploded. edit: just noticed my usual source of subs has appeared. __________________ "It Really IS Rocket Science", Novel series rough drafts; vol. 1 thru vol. 3 complete Volume 4 in work, Visit the thread for short stories!

2010-12-13, 23:39	Link #138
pagan poor Swayin' to the beat Join Date: Dec 2006	I didn't take this episode seriously. I just laughed at all the gags and not worried about all the other stuff. Kyousuke should hit it up with the receptionist.