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Old 2013-11-23, 08:59   Link #2661
BaKaBaKaOtaKu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
@BaKaBaKaOtaKu

I edited that post after I made it, and the edit included some important new points.

One being - Where were your anti-voters during Madoka vs. Kyouko? If anti-Madoka faction voters are as against Madoka winning it all as you seem to think they are, then they should have at least tried to have Madoka eliminated in the semi-finals match against Kyouko.
Maybe they decided to take her down during the Finals. Or it's also likely that Mami was actually the one they really liked to vote fully against since she has taken down top tiers of Saki, Saki voters were likely the main ones behind it. They hold more grudge against her.

Quote:
Mami's opponents weren't necessarily significantly strong themselves, given the affect of the rule change.
I'm talking about the entirety of their performance since the first round not just after the rule was applied. Mami has faced strong opponents and she took them down, garnering votes non of the contestants has ever had this year.

Quote:
Madoka is obviously pretty fortunate that a 2nd chance system even exists. In any previous year, she would have been gone for good in the 2nd Round.
That's quite reaching you know lol. The faction were undecided during the 3 way match, giving quite a lot to Homura herself. Without Homura there, Madoka was the winner And no at the last one, unfounded claims

Quote:
No, not really. The vote totals in this match are not that high. You're being overly speculative here.
There's no such thing as being over speculative. I have always mentioned of the "IFs" here, and if Sayaka doesn't beat Madoka here (which is the thing that's suppose to happen}, anti-voters could very well be united during the Sayaka-Mami match, since Mami was the one they hold a grudge against.

Quote:
Why? Why do you think Kuroneko definitely needed anti-vote support? Kuroneko won a Block with no Madoka Magica girl in it. She did very well in J-SaiMoe 2011. There's every reason in the world to consider Kuroneko legit strong of her own accord.
What are you saying, I was talking about Sayaka lol.

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Based on vote totals through the 2011 matches, you're simply wrong here.
Based on the fact that there's no match akin to Homura-Ayase-Madoka in 2011 to compare, I don't see why I'm wrong there.

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What controversy was there in Mami's victory over Madoka in 2011? I don't recall there being any controversy there.
Looks like someone's not paying attention during that year. When only few minutes were remaining, a PMMM hater spammed the thread with whatsoever, derailing the last votes for Madoka. Madpka was poised for a rush.

Quote:
Homura getting way more votes in the match against Railgun says plenty when we evaluate her strength at the time compared to Madoka's strength. There's plenty of reason to think that Homura was stronger than Madoka in J-SaiMoe 2011, and would have went farther than Madoka if not for Railgun voters cheating.
Evaluating Homura's strength when she was facing a STRONG opponent DIFFERS from evaluating Madoka's strength based on un-challenging matches, pal. BiRiBiri was showing huge amount of votes, of course the faction's gonna support Homura full on. Who could say that, you're plainly speculating here

Quote:
I gave a perfectly good argument for why the winner of this match is the girl that is preferred by the voters, period. If you think differently, then please explain your reasoning. As is, your arguments and words are far from compelling, as you're simply making bold proclamations without the slightest element of supporting argumentation.
Nope on that, period. If Madoka wins here, that's the only natural way to go. I have stated my opinion on the matter and I've explained them. I don't see any reason for me to repeat that.
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Old 2013-11-23, 09:03   Link #2662
Hachiko
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251-175, Madoka. Now awaiting final tally after verifications...

Stand by for the graphic.
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Old 2013-11-23, 09:13   Link #2663
ion475
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Pre-purge...

Kaname Madoka 288
Miki Sayaka 198



Quote:
JSaimoe used to have diverse taste, but if the last few years is anything to go by, Jsaimoe isn't any different from ISML, really...It's actually more of a series popularity contest then even ISML; at least ISML only has a couple girls dominating from a respective series while the rest from their series do only relatively well. I mean, you can't even tell who is the most popular Madomagi until they face each other, because they all rape everyone else equally hard.
Can't disagree. MadoMagi is definitely ruining AST, though...(2012 and Saki is more of an exception IMO. The other girls from 2012 are just sadly underpowered...)

I guess the reason why ISML feels like it lack diversity is more due to the fact that it's MadoMagi-style domination not just for, let say, 2011 and 2013 here over at AST, but basically 2010-2013, 4 years straight...
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Old 2013-11-23, 09:17   Link #2664
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaKaBaKaOtaKu View Post
Maybe they decided to take her down during the Finals.
Apparently not.


Quote:
I'm talking about the entirety of their performance since the first round not just after the rule was applied.
So am I. Those Saki girls may never have been as strong as they seemed.


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That's quite reaching you know lol.
No, it's not. It's a simple fact.


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The faction were undecided during the 3 way match, giving quite a lot to Homura herself.
That was likely due to Nanoha voters supporting Homura for repechage reasons.


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Without Homura there, Madoka was the winner
Probably, but it doesn't change the fact that she was fortunate that a 2nd Chance system even exists this year. The ending of her match with Kuroneko was also a bit controversial.


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There's no such thing as being over speculative.
Sure there is. It is very possible to over-think things. That's partly why Occam's Razor exists - To guard against over-thinking things.


Quote:
...anti-voters could very well be quite united during the Sayaka-Mami match, since Mami was the one they hold a grudge against.
Voters could very well now prefer Sayaka over Mami. Or voters could very well have decided that they wanted a different PMMM girl to win this year, so it was time for Mami to lose.


Quote:
What are you saying, I was talking about Sayaka lol.
Part of your argument was that Madoka-Kuroneko displayed the existence of anti-voters. My counterargument was no, it doesn't, because Kuroneko's votes in that match are nothing out of the ordinary for her. She is a legit strong girl herself.


Quote:
Looks like someone's not paying attention during that year.
I did pay attention. If you're going to consider a thread-spamming in the last few minutes of a match to be a big controversy, then Madoka's victory over Kuroneko this year is an even bigger controversy.

Personally, I think you're making a mountain out of a mole-hill here. Mami legitimately defeated Madoka in 2011.


Quote:
Evaluating Homura's strength when she was facing a STRONG opponent DIFFERS from evaluating Madoka's strength based on un-challenging matches,
Not all of her matches were unchallenging. She obviously was challenged by Mami, who went on to defeat her.


Quote:
Nope on that, period. If Madoka wins here, that's the only natural way to go.
It's pretty arrogant to conflate one's personal take on characters with the "natural way to go". The more objective individual would allow results to speak for themselves, whatever those results may be.
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Old 2013-11-23, 09:18   Link #2665
Hachiko
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ion475 View Post
MadoMagi is definitely ruining AST, though...
Um, Saki would like to have a word with you on that...
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Old 2013-11-23, 09:20   Link #2666
npal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hachiko View Post
Um, Saki would like to have a word with you on that...
LOL, so true. Strong factions have been "ruining" Saimoe each year if you ask the right people
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Old 2013-11-23, 09:22   Link #2667
Hachiko
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Quote:
Originally Posted by npal View Post
LOL, so true. Strong factions have been "ruining" Saimoe each year if you ask the right people
#Connections
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Old 2013-11-23, 09:23   Link #2668
ion475
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Quote:
Um, Saki would like to have a word with you on that...
Umm...

MadoMagi = 4 out of 5 girls going into QF, 3 out of 5 in Semi-Final, 2 out of 5 in Final for 2011 and 2013.
Saki = 6 out of gadjillion girls going into QF in 2012.

Not quite the same...

(On the other hand, though, I do find it hard to hate MadoMagi myself anyway...I said they ruin it, and I'm not helping things by voting for them when I could...)
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Old 2013-11-23, 09:24   Link #2669
Hachiko
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ion475 View Post
Umm...

MadoMagi = 4 out of 5 girls going into QF, 3 out of 5 in Semi-Final, 2 out of 5 in Final for 2011 and 2013.
Saki = 6 out of gadjillion girls going into QF in 2012.

Not quite the same...
I think they are pretty much comparable. They ran the tables in their respective years.
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Old 2013-11-23, 09:26   Link #2670
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ion475 View Post
Umm...

MadoMagi = 4 out of 5 girls going into QF, 3 out of 5 in Semi-Final, 2 out of 5 in Final for 2011 and 2013.
Saki = 6 out of gadjillion girls going into QF in 2012.

Not quite the same...
4 of the final 8 is less dominating than 6 of the final 8, regardless of the total pool of characters that a show has.

Saki dominated to a far greater degree last year than Madoka did this year or in 2011. That's why Saki attracted more hate this year than Madoka did.
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Old 2013-11-23, 09:29   Link #2671
Hachiko
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Spoiler for graphics:
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Old 2013-11-23, 09:30   Link #2672
Hachiko
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Victory speech will be posted shortly.
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Old 2013-11-23, 09:30   Link #2673
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Congrats to Madoka.
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Old 2013-11-23, 09:33   Link #2674
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So Madoka becomes the first loser to win the championship, thanks to a match where both contestants combined polled fewer votes than last year's winner.

The question for next year's tournament is, will there be more contestants than voters?
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Old 2013-11-23, 09:34   Link #2675
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I knew it was a bad idea to hold the finals near a bridge...

Kidding, of course. (please don't hurt me ) Congrats Madoka. You might not have been the girl I was rooting for in the finals, but if Sayaka had to lose in the finals, I'm okay with it being to you.
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Old 2013-11-23, 09:40   Link #2676
BaKaBaKaOtaKu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hachiko View Post
Spoiler for graphics:
Madoka was the clear choice of the faction. Congrats Madoka! Anti-voters tried but failed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Apparently not.
That's why I had the "IFs"

Quote:
So am I. Those Saki girls may never have been as strong as they seemed.
They're strong though no matter how much you deny that.

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No, it's not. It's a simple fact.
Simple fact that Madoka could have been eliminated in 2011 in round 2 was a very reaching thing you know.

Quote:
That was likely due to Nanoha voters supporting Homura for repechage reasons.
Likely but it's doubtful that all of those voters were Nanoha voters. Likely that they only compose like 30% of Homura's votes

Quote:
Probably, but it doesn't change the fact that she was fortunate that a 2nd Chance system even exists this year. The ending of her match with Kuroneko was also a bit controversial.
Yep, I never denied that she was very fortunate for being given a second chance. Not as controversial when there's no hater to spam a thread

Quote:
Sure there is. It is very possible to over-think things. That's partly why Occam's Razor exists - To guard against over-thinking things.
Don't think I was anyway, just doing an observation.

Quote:
Voters could very well now prefer Sayaka over Mami. Or voters could very well have decided that they wanted a different PMMM girl to win this year, so it was time for Mami to lose.
I've always said that Mami's disadvantage was she was a former champion ,so I agree with that possibility. But given how much Sayaka gained in that match, anti-voters were at play.

Quote:
Part of your argument was that Madoka-Kuroneko displayed the existence of anti-voters. My counterargument was no, it doesn't, because Kuroneko's votes in that match are nothing out of the ordinary for her. She is a legit strong girl herself.
It's a possibility that a number of Kuroneko voters are also likely to be Saki supporters, anti-PMMM voters and etc... I never downplayed Kuroneko ,what are you saying again lol. I was referring to Sayaka.

Quote:
I did pay attention. If you're going to consider a thread-spamming in the last few minutes of a match to be a big controversy, then Madoka's victory over Kuroneko this year is an even bigger controversy.
Clearly you did not pay attention. Thread spamming that had derailed important rush votes and what could have been Madoka's additonal votes was controversial. I don't see a controversy between two strong characters facing each other, Madoka was strong, Kuroneko was strong, it's not odd to see Madoka win that.

Quote:
Personally, I think you're making a mountain out of a mole-hill here. Mami legitimately defeated Madoka in 2011.
I'm not sure of that honestly as much as I'd like to think Mami is stronger than Madoka.

Quote:
Not all of her matches were unchallenging. She obviously was challenged by Mami, who went on to defeat her.
Yep, and that is an intraseries match

Quote:
It's pretty arrogant to conflate one's personal take on characters with the "natural way to go". The more objective individual would allow results to speak for themselves, whatever those results may be.
In my observation of Madoka's performance she was poised to win without tactical voting that's apparent to me. I don't see any arrogance in that An objective indvidual could question results if you ask me

EDIT: Now the results out, I'd say the faction voted for who they really want, almost giving all their votes to her.
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Old 2013-11-23, 09:44   Link #2677
Hachiko
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Hey Madoka, Your Country Needs You!

Spoiler for The Victory Speech:
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Last edited by Hachiko; 2013-11-30 at 13:52.
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Old 2013-11-23, 09:47   Link #2678
chaosprophet
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Congrats to Madoka for winning AST 2013.

Hopefully the bring some changes in their policies next year... if we do get one next year.
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Old 2013-11-23, 09:47   Link #2679
npal
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So Madokami rose from the dead and won the thing. That kinda suits a goddess of her magnitude It's nice a favorite girl of mine actually wins, it doesn't happen often. More often than not, the final results are infuriating :P But anyway, ~400 votes total in a Saimoe final... The admins should start advertising and be less stiff next time.
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Old 2013-11-23, 09:48   Link #2680
BaKaBaKaOtaKu
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I still need for Homura to win next year before my wish gets completed. A Mami win in 2011, Madoka in 2013 and hopefully next year, it's Homura's turn.

Congrats to Madoka again!

Might be my last post on this thread. See you all next year!
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