Shin Sekai Yori - Episode 11 Discussion / Poll

[orion]

Originally Posted by Forsaken_Infinity

Correct.

Maria's apparently the most popular girl and she knows it too. Ryou informs her of how Mamoru lost all his confidence when Maria came first in the popularity poll. Maria clearly cares for Mamoru so she chose him despite all the tease.

Zealous Shun fans would do well to realize that he is dead, but that the rest of the story is still ongoing and that we're actually only entering the meat of the story now, considering there's still more than half the show left. I don't at all like how you guys are wishing for some sort of miraculous cheap return for his character. Why would you want something like that? That would cheapen the whole show for one and for another, make last episode an utter joke and not the awesome treat it was. Shun was quite literally too awesome to live, let that be the end of it.

Well... it worked for

Spoiler:

...Fafner. The awesome male MC returned in the movie to the cheers of fans of a certain couple. They even got another anime now.

And if Saki is carrying on a conversation with him, he might not be dead. There's no law that says that the anime has to follow the novel. It can be "tweaked".

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by GenjiChan

By the way Shun's ain't cheap. If he is then the fans are?

I don’t think Forsaken meant that Shun is cheap. The cheap thing is: if Shun lives again after his epic death.

Just imagine how screwed up Gurren Lagann would be if:

Spoiler for GL spoiler:

Kamina lives again at some point in the anime.

[orion]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

I don’t think Forsaken meant that Shun is cheap. The cheap thing is: if Shun lives again after his epic death.

Just imagine how screwed up Gurren Lagann would be if:

Spoiler for GL spoiler:

Kamina lives again at some point in the anime.

It wouldn't have been screwed up. Prob a lot of people would have cheered if he had survived.

So, a certain group here prefers Shun. Nothing wrong with that. If Shun fans are the major buyers, then the title is prob SOL in the marketplace.

[NoemiChan]

Originally Posted by orion

There's no law that says that the anime has to follow the novel. It can be "tweaked".

That's a fact. We can't tell until it happens.

[Forsaken_Infinity]

Originally Posted by orion

Well... it worked for

Spoiler:

...Fafner. The awesome male MC returned in the movie to the cheers of fans of a certain couple. They even got another anime now.

And if Saki is carrying on a conversation with him, he might not be dead. There's no law that says that the anime has to follow the novel. It can be "tweaked".

Uh. I never said anything about the anime having to follow the novel or not, that information is irrelevant to the anime. I think you should delete that part about the novel btw, it's arguably a spoiler.

I said it'd be extremely cheap to have Shun return after making a big deal out of his death. Not at all what I would expect from a serious show with genuinely grim atmosphere.

I liked Shun myself. I didn't call him cheap, and I don't want to be mean but you shouldn't have inferred that I called him cheap, GenjiChan, as there's nothing in my post that could lead to that mistaken impression.

I also didn't call all his fans cheap, but his particularly zealous fans are obnoxiously cheap.

Also, even that person that everybody refers to when it comes to epic death was from a show where his return wouldn't necessarily have been all that disruptive. In this show, returning Shun is going to more or less destroy all credibility the show has built up. Good thing that's not going to happen.

Also, what I meant with my post was not to spark this discussion about whether or not Shun's return would be merited but to point out that the half of the show is still to be seen and that you all should brace yourself for other awesome stuff to come and enjoy what could happen from here on than clinging on to wistful, and in my opinion, very very unlikely and boring, thinking. Shun died, but his friends are still moving on with their life. His friends refused to forget him and there is some surrealistic dream where apparently Shun narrates information to Saki. That's that and that's how we should leave it at.

There's so much to wonder about how much more of the world is going to be revealed and what other consequences Saki's prying is going to bring about but you guys want to make silly arguments for why Shun should be back. There's nothing wrong with liking his character, or preferring his character over other's, but to refuse to accept what the show has presented you and to give silly, irrelevant and unverifiable reasons like more potential buyers to bring him back from the grave is just being disruptive to productive discussion imo. Go write a fanfic or something instead. If you can come up with a good enough scenario and reason for his return, I will read it. But I have my sincere reservations that it'd be that easy to find a good enough reason and method without breaking everything that clicks the show's world together.

[mangamuscle]

If readers of the novel really hated Shun's death we would had already heard, it is not unheard of to modify a LN due to fan expectations/outcry (it happened in The Sacred Blacksmith). But it would take a sharp decline in Disc Stalker sales potential and many letters/phone calls to the studio in japan for something similar to happen for the anime (I heard that is the reason that DBZ adult Goku's dind't change VA), if western audiences have different tastes chances are they will never notice.

[Forsaken_Infinity]

There are many other ways to pacify an extremely zealous following of Shun if such a following is indeed insurmountably big than to bring him back and almost certainly ruin the rest of the show.

You could have special episodes from Shun's perspective. You could have non-cannon material featuring Shun as extra offering to make Shun's fans buy the anime BDs. There is really no valid reason to bring Shun back.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by ogon_bat

But it would take a sharp decline in Disc Stalker sales potential and many letters/phone calls to the studio in japan for something similar to happen for the anime (I heard that is the reason that DBZ adult Goku's dind't change VA), if western audiences have different tastes chances are they will never notice.

Yeah.

It's really annoying when a large number of fans want something that would be non-constructive to the anime. Gundam SEED Destiny is also a prime example of that IIRC. Thank god Zeta Gundam and Gurren Lagann didn't succumb to it.

[Jimmy C]

One thing I didn't see anyone pointing out here, it's not just Shun, but all memories of Pinewood and its inhabitants have been wiped/suppressed.
From the example of Ryou, it looks like they reshuffled the groups to cover the gaps left by the disappearance of the Pinewood kids and hypnotically suggested that the replacements had always been there.
I wonder how many times has this happened before and how many barricaded "lakes" are in the surrounding area?

[Shadow5YA]

Originally Posted by orion

It wouldn't have been screwed up. Prob a lot of people would have cheered if he had survived.

So, a certain group here prefers Shun. Nothing wrong with that. If Shun fans are the major buyers, then the title is prob SOL in the marketplace.

That would be your opinion, not the opinion of every other fan. I've noticed this isn't the first time you've expressed desire for the anime to take a different route from its source material. You've voiced the same opinion when Kamisama no Memochou was airing.

A character can be significant and still appreciated after death. Saki's actions should have been enough proof.

Not all people's appreciation of a narrative is based solely on whether their favorite character survives. People can like Kamina and Gurren Lagann as a whole.

[mangamuscle]

Originally Posted by Jimmy C

I wonder how many times has this happened before and how many barricaded "lakes" are in the surrounding area?

The simple fact that they are struggling to get enough electricity for their daily needs seems to indicate that this happens more often than their capacity to rebuild them.

[Dr. Casey]

Originally Posted by orion

There's no law that says that the anime has to follow the novel.

There isn't, but I highly doubt they would diverge from the original novel that much. >_>

Maria seems to have a bit of a twisted and meanspirited streak to her now... she doesn't seem to be the same innocent little hippie girl she was two years ago. I hope we'll learn more about whatever issues she might have, because she's caught my interest.

[Bahamut]

...i prefer my (main) characters who dies an epic death...to remain dead...
...reminds me of a certain fat ninja kid of a certain shounen show...where it was such an epic moment only to facepalm during the aftermath...

...rare exceptions...are something like main character dying mid-way or end of a 26ep series...
...then air a second season which stars the other characters...
...then have a 13 ep series and claim it to be a spin-off that stars mystery character X which airs simultaneously right before the third season...
...then end the so called spin off showing hints that its infact a side-story...
...then at mid-way of third season main character returns...

...something like that i would not mind...of course the question is what kind of story would this be...


...certainly enjoying this and looking foward to where this will go...

[NoemiChan]

I thought we didn't have this thread
Shin Sekai Yori Speculation and Theories Thread

[Rosalena]

Something that I found interesting was that Saki didn't remember her sister Yoshimi but her parents clearly did. Why was only Saki's memory erased? Are adults at some point made privy to what goes on behind the scenes so that their memories don't need to be erased?

If this is the case then I don't see why the children who do peek behind the curtain (so to speak) would be punished. Aside from the fact that doing so is taboo, as long as they remain mentally stable it shouldn't really matter. After all, they might have escaped censure entirely if Shun had not become unstable after their adventure. To me this suggests that the adults are more worried about how the kids will react to the knowledge than they are about the kids having the knowledge itself.

The ending of this week's episode really made me wonder about this. I look forward to seeing what happens with Saki and the Head of the Ethics Committee.

[Izayoi]

Are we really suggesting that Shun would come back alive? Like after a whole episode dedicated to his death and a new plot line to find out who he is, the series would somehow bring him back. What is going on?
-----

If memories can be tweaked, I wonder if personality can also be tweaked. The power of Cantus seems to be unlimited...

[hai_san]

Damn SSY, after each episode i hope to get some solution for the puzzle that SSY is but what i get is more and more riddles.. it makes me incredible curious for each new ep. Apparently SSY will be a serie where you can only get the context when the serie is done, and there is none of any hints.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by ogon_bat

I believe the only reason Maria choose Mamoru is because he can be easily coerced into being an spectator while she continues her love life with Saki.

I have to admit, I find this darkly humorous. It also appeals a bit to the yuri fan in me.

Speaking of yuri, I had no problem with the Saki/Maria kiss (the two obviously love each other). I also had no problem with a group hug. But a group hug combined with a kiss felt a bit weird to me. A guy doing a conventional "group hug" around two girls kissing each other - That's certainly different.


Bringing in a guy to play "the Shun role" is very interesting. It shows the incredible lengths to which this society will go to hide unpleasant truths from its members (or at least its youth). However, either Ryou must have known exactly what he's doing (in which case, that's a lot of responsibility to put on a teenager), or his memories were drastically altered so that he really did believe he was "the Shun" in this group.

If it's the former, I wouldn't want to be him when he has to report of his failure to his superiors.

If it's the latter, that's tragic. He's been rejected by his friends, and he doesn't know why.


Having Satoru's grandmother be the head of the Ethics Committee is a great twist, and helps to explain a lot (such as why these kids are even still alive, frankly).

I guess that from carefully observing Saki, the Ethics Committee has determined that she's one of those rare souls that can "handle the truth", Jack Nicholson-style. Yeah, it would be great to see Saki one day become the head of the Ethics Committee herself. Oh, what incredible irony that would be.


Oh, one final note... As big of a Shun fan as I am (I wonder if I'm one of those "cheap fans" in Forsaken_Infinity's eyes ), I don't want Shun to come back. His death has more meaning, and this narrative has greater integrity, if he doesn't come back. If Shun comes back, it'll instantly remind me of how cheap death is in modern comic book universes.

That being said, it's fine if Saki has these "moments" here and there where she "hears" Shun talking to her. That could be interesting.


Anyway, a really nice episode. I gotta say that I love the uniforms these kids wear.

[mangamuscle]

Originally Posted by Rosalena

Something that I found interesting was that Saki didn't remember her sister Yoshimi but her parents clearly did. Why was only Saki's memory erased? Are adults at some point made privy to what goes on behind the scenes so that their memories don't need to be erased?

It is no surprise that all the adult know the truth (albeit they might not now all the finer details), they consider teenagers to be emotionally unstable (which is not off the mark) and since they are basically killing any child they deem unsuitable (akin to what sparta did) they tamper with their memories so that their stress levels do not skyrocket creating even more unsuitable kids. I suppose there must be a coming of age ceremony (which might be just the formal marriage ceremony) where they get to know the truth since as an adult you have built mechanisms to deal with grief and you must HELP with the charade.

[Triple_R]

Yeah, I think it's clear that all of the adults are in on the charade. The adults that survive are those who never got weeded out as kids, so they'll likely be strong people with a good sense of self-discipline, good Cantus mastery, and the ability necessary to not crack under the dark truths of society. Mind you, we're seeing how Mamoru could end up being an adult exception to that...