2012-01-04, 15:29 | Link #801 | |
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Question: why is the one who has the most experience in tournament, and the stamina of three years of track and field, the one to get sick?
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He just spoke up because: - he was relieved to be freed from Arata's oppressive superiority; - he was making excuses for not being as good as Arata; - he was making excuses for Arata not having results now. |
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2012-01-04, 16:28 | Link #804 | |
Me, An Intellectual
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Age: 33
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In any case it seems to me that the author appears to have a rather low opinion on anyone she doesn't personally know.
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2012-01-04, 18:25 | Link #805 |
reads too much
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: you know that's a great question.....
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A combination of stress, pressure, possibly a lack of sleep/food/water, and getting overheated from wearing the hakama. Honestly we've seen her work herself up and get too stressed to think straight before, especially in tournaments, hopefully after this she'll make sure this doesn't happen again, I got the impression that Taichi was at least partially expecting this to happen and was keeping an eye out for it. Also, remember that she didn't take track & field that seriously, she saw it "as a way to make friends," not as a life goal to fulfill.
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2012-01-05, 00:23 | Link #808 |
Lost at Sea
Join Date: Mar 2010
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There is an entire museum in Kyoto dedicated to the hyakunin isshu and to karuta:
"The two-story Shigure-den in Arashiyama is a museum where people can experience and learn about the Hyakunin Isshu. This building is two storeys high." It's an interactive museum, complete with electronic displays and the usual educational computer game stuff, but also life-size mannequins of some of the authors of the poetry, and a collections of old card decks. Wow.
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2012-01-05, 01:36 | Link #810 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: U.S.
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I'm just gonna make one for people who wanted to talk about manga or people who don't mind spoilers.
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2012-01-05, 05:43 | Link #812 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: U.S.
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And as we've seen so far, despite talking big, Chihaya isn't the calmest person when it comes to handling pressures and expectation.
Besides, while she should be used to competition, this is the first time she made to national stage in Omi Jingu. Compare to that, Nishida actually had more experience in this regard, he's been there twice while in elementary.
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2012-01-06, 00:59 | Link #813 | |||
Lost at Sea
Join Date: Mar 2010
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There are a lot of ordinary reasons for Chihaya's collapse, relating to the conditions of the match and Chihaya's own disposition. Here's a good summary:
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Let's start with the moment at which Chihaya's distress starts to become acute: it is when she is laying out her cards at the start of the match, and in particular, when she is placing the card with the line, "have been soaked red with tears of blood." The animation emphasizes her shock at seeing this card: she responds, "huh?" when she sees it, she freezes for a moment holding the card, and then the point-of-view moves up toward her shocked, frozen expression. So what's up with this card? After all, as Anh Minh points out, she's seen it many times before: why does it affect her so strongly and in this way now? The line comes from the 90th of the hyakunin isshu: the speaker is a betrayed lover, who has soaked her sleeves with tears at her lover's treachery. So, for Chihaya, what is the betrayal? One possibility is that she feels betrayed by the kami of the shrine. As she gets dizzy, she asks, "Why would you do this, God?/ Didn't I ask you/ to keep us safe from any accidents?" But the line from the poem has another reference, as the narrative makes clear by segueing directly from Chihaya's question to Arata, and to his memories of his grandfather's decline into dementia and finally into death. Arata's terrible anguish at his grandfather's failure to recognize him or even the karuta cards gives the most concrete possible instance of someone whose sleeves "have been soaked red with tears of blood." Arata's grandfather illustrates by his tragedy the limits to Chihaya's prayer to the kami of Omi Jingu. Chihaya thinks she is asking only for a little, and no miracle, but to be exempt from accidents is a much greater miracle than anyone can reasonably expect. The wish that life should be so easy is the inevitable prelude to terrible disappointment and pain. Young Arata can think "Grandfather is still Grandfather," but that comfortable confidence stands as the measure of how much he will lose when his Ojiisan cannot remember him or the karuta cards. Arata shows him the 77th card, the poem of lovers who hope to be reunited as streams will come together, but there are no happy endings for his grandfather's condition. But there are still miracles. As Arata approaches the side building in which the tournament is being played, he also approaches in memory the moment of his grandfather's death. He sees a cicada on the tree, and listening to its sound, he is reminded of "the passing nature of all things," and recalls his anguish at that time: "It hurts. / The pain. The fear." Overwhelmed, he turns to leave. Arata turns to leave! And now the miracle. At that very moment, he hears suddenly out of the silence, as if by magic, the noise of the match going on inside, and so he turns back, and goes inside. The perspective switches back to Chihaya, as she says to herself, echoing Arata's very words, "It hurts. / My ears are ringing." Then she faints. I think you can argue there is a mystical connection between Chihaya and Arata, that he hears outside the shrine what she hears inside, and that she feels inside what he feels outside, the sense of pain, the unwillingness to confront the hardness of life. Her collapse I think is the corollary of Arata's turning around and walking away. But I'm not going to insist on this point. The miracle lies I think on a deeper level than even this. When Chihaya awakes and then collapses again, overcome by her sense of having failed her teammates, by her sense that she has made futile all their efforts, Arata finds himself moved by her dedication. Far from thinking her emotionally immature, he instead admires her: "Chihaya, you're just as determined as you used to be." Her example leads him to self-reflection, to the realization that he still loves karuta, even if it has been for him the place of his grandfather's tragedy, and finally to the decision that he will return to playing the game. And this is the miracle. Chihaya's original prayer to the kami had been, 'Please keep us safe from any accidents,/ so we're able to play." She had thought she had meant her prayer only for herself and her teammates, in an ordinary sense of nothing getting in the way of their playing. But the kami had heard her words--we know this, from the flash she experiences as soon as she makes the prayer--and had understood them in their deeper sense, to include Arata, to keep him safe from the great accident that had overwhelmed his life, and to make it possible for him to play with her again as well. In Arata's decision, and in his promise to meet her again playing karuta, Chihaya finds the deepest prayer of her heart answered. Chihaya's tears of happiness at the episode's conclusion flow from her awareness that the kami has indeed heard her and answered her in the best way possible. Chihayafuru continues to be an extraordinary anime. It deals with some of the most difficult issues of life, with an enormous sensitivity and passion. It brings together a wealth of cultural references, speaking to the viewer subtly and complexly, using visual metaphor, poetry, and intricate plotting to make its narrative points. With Chihayafuru, as with great art, you do not so much as read it, as it reads you. ------------------ Way to go Sudo for taking time to visit Chihaya when she's sick. Good man.
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Last edited by hyperborealis; 2012-01-07 at 10:16. Reason: Looks more like a hotel than a hospital... |
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2012-01-06, 07:06 | Link #814 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Age: 35
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My immediate thought in reaction to Chihaya's despondency upon waking up (that she had failed; that it was all over) was that perhaps she should have had a little more faith in her teammates. I hadn't realized that the group tournament would proceed so fast that, even if Misuzawa had managed to tally up some victories, Chihaya's rest would still make her too late to rejoin the group and participate in the tournament. It was a disappointment for me, but that the team had fun and had even made it into the playoffs must certainly have been consolation to Chihaya. I had thought that the "flash" Chihaya experienced following her prayer was simply foreshadowing for her later sickness and collapse during the tournament. What you bring up about wishing to be exempt from accidents, obstacles, and all the other unpredictable misfortunes of life getting in the way of fulfilling your passion and living out your potential being in itself an unrealistic miracle is a good point. I had thought that Chihaya's mistake or weakness in this episode was that she wanted her team to succeed, or find enjoyment, or fulfill their potential in karuta at this tournament too much. In the same way that you analyzed of Sudou two episodes ago, where his preoccupation with victory cost him the match against Chihaya, here too the meaning of the game or the significance of the tournament was the source of the stress which ultimately let Chihaya succumb to illness. In this way, then, the "miracle" that you speak of in Arata being protected and returning to karuta, or the lesser "miracle" in the rest of Chihaya's team being able to play their hearts out and have a full experience of the tournament even without her, are probably the karuta kami's way of telling Chihaya to have more faith; even in the midst of those accidents or trials she was praying for protection from. Rather than that sort of protection, if Chihaya had asked that she and her teammates would be allowed to experience the joy of playing karuta, as she/they always has/have--she would have found that her prayer would surely be answered. It is pretty interesting to see you diving so deeply into the Japanese culture and traditionalism with this anime. Having been previously more familiar with a number of these traditionalisms due to their limited ubiquity throughout mangas and anime, I haven't been consumed with the interest and curiosity to dig deeper like you have. The wealth of the references and links you've put up, however (despite having previously known of the Shigureden, for example, I had never clicked through to actually look at their website and overview; and from that blog link you put up on the cicadas I have already clicked through to five or more other articles I found very interesting), has certainly been more rewarding than I would have initially realized. |
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2012-01-06, 12:50 | Link #815 | |||
Lost at Sea
Join Date: Mar 2010
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Spoiler for tournament match scores from the manga:
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So, if her dizziness seems to start from the moment she makes the prayer--notice how she is distracted, and puts her hand to her head--it is since the kami is acting through the illness to answer Chihaya's prayer. Quote:
The main reason I don't take this line any further is due to the way the anime tells the story. The focus of the episode is on the relation between Arata and Chihaya; the tournament, and all the issues of team motives, are all off camera. So we need a different explanation for what the episode is trying to get at. Expect more--I'm gong the full Kana route, at least as far as you can do it without being able to read Japanese. Now I'm edging myself to the point of going all in, and taking the five years it's going to take to get a reading fluency in the language. I'd love to be having this conversation over on 2chan. Kana, I will find you!
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2012-01-06, 13:06 | Link #816 | |
Junior Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Brighton, UK
Age: 39
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Last edited by Chanbara; 2012-01-06 at 14:25. |
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2012-01-06, 19:21 | Link #819 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Age: 35
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2012-01-06, 23:20 | Link #820 |
Senior Member
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While there are a variety of good explanations (some in-canon, some meta-level) for why Chihaya fainted during her match in Episode 13, I hope that this sort of thing doesn't become routine for her. I say this with the thought in mind of how morale-boosting cheers and/or pep talks from Taichi and Tsutomu were already necessary to get her through other matches.
I mean, if Chihaya keeps having these sorts of "folding under the pressure" moments where she just kind of phases out, it'll make her seem a bit like what pro sports fans call "chokers". That's not really the characterization I personally want to see in the lead of a sports anime. It's fine for Chihaya to have a moment or two like this, but I honestly hope the next time we see Chihaya play karuta, she keeps her wits/faculties about her, and she wins due to the strength of her own playing skill and personal ambitions. Still, the Arata moments in this latest episode were absolutely great. Excellent personal and family drama there. I really hope we see more of Arata going forward. On the whole, I'll give Chihayafuru Episode 13 a 8/10. A nice way to kick the show back off after a short break.
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josei, karuta, madhouse |
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