AnimeSuki Forums

kj1980 · 2006-09-04, 22:56

Welcome to the discussion thread for Higurashi no Naku Koroni, Episode 23.

Thread Guidelines

No telling or asking for RAWs.
Try to keep spoilers from the Game or Manga out of the anime thread. If you need to in reply to someone with a reference to the Game / Manga, either PM them or use Spoiler tags (see example below).
Discuss your expectations of the episode if not aired.
Be polite to your fellow forum members.
Try to keep the discussion on topic and future episode spoilers out of the thread whenever possible.

Spoiler Tag Usage

Using Spoiler Tags is easy. Using this...

[spoiler=title]Don't forget to use the spoiler title[/spoiler]

....will get you this...

Spoiler for title:

ADDITIONAL RULES FOR Higurashi no Naku Koroni

Make sure you read the English wikipedia article for Higurashi no Naku Koroni before you ask questions!!!
Feel free to utilize the info on the TIPS section as a complement to this series.
Feel free to share your theories and speculations. In fact, I encourage you to do so as this is what makes this series interesting.
I am designating Sushi-Y and Freakman to lead the discussion in the correct path without spoilers as they have played the game in advance. I put confidence in them that they will recognize a member has spilled the beans too far if any other members has begun to play the game.
SPOILERS FAR ADVANCED THAN THE CURRENT AIRED ANIME EPISODE WILL NOT BE TOLERATED. THIS INCLUDES THOSE IN SPOILER TAGS!!!. People tend to peek at spoiler tags; especially when they do not know such tag is meant for the episode, only to find it spilling the beans too far advanced in the game storyline.

kj1980 · 2006-09-04, 22:58

Yes I know it is earlier than usual, but I have bunch of stuff to take care of tomorrow. In any case, here's the thread for Ep. 23. Have fun! I hope they do the pivotal scenes right....

LuckyCat · 2006-09-05, 14:54

Having not played the game, I don't know if they did them right. But a lot of shit hits the fan this episode.

Spoiler for episode details:

Gave it a 9.

Sushi-Y · 2006-09-05, 18:54

It felt like the story was played in fast-forward until the confrontation scene between Rena and Rina at the dump site, which, I guess, isn't that big of a deal, as long as the major points are delivered.

Now then, the most important scenes in this part of the story were obviously:

Spoiler:

In that respect, I think this episode actually did a pretty good job with them (Rena's expressions were very nice throughout it all

), despite some memorable lines and scenes skipped through:

Spoiler:

Other than that, a satisfactory episode. Too bad it ended with me bursting out in laughters at Kura-chan's "Hmph! *cool guy smirk*"

Now, next week's episode is actually going to be quite important, if done right, it should shock and amaze people. Done wrong, and it'll be wtf denpa-talk hell for non-gamers.

I'm just going to play "Sheep counts" over the anime's bgm when it begins.

kj1980 · 2006-09-05, 19:47

Did they go over Rena's past? If not, I'll have to ask LostBlue to add that to the TIPS...

LuckyCat · 2006-09-05, 20:04

There was a very short flashback involving Rena's mom becoming pregnant.

Sushi-Y · 2006-09-05, 21:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by kj1980

Did they go over Rena's past? If not, I'll have to ask LostBlue to add that to the TIPS...

Nothing besides what was already shown last week.

Arimfe · 2006-09-05, 22:35

Rena's weapon was upgraded

Now Rena also has that awesome bonebreaker/saw/axe thing Rena is just awesome that way after all

Poor Rena getting strangled like that.......unforgiveable....kana??!!?!

Go Rena girl!!!! GO Whack them all!!!!

This episode just proves it, you just can't be safe even at your own little secret base at a dump site with lots of cute things without having your trusty cleaver ready to draw at any time

Speaking of secret bases, Rena is more boyish than I thought

having a secret base like that..... ... .. *Khyaaaaaa* Rena is too cute after all

(anything about Rena is cute

)

*goes to vote for Rena in character poll*

chrno_the_sinner · 2006-09-05, 22:43

Well, even with barely understanding what was happening, it's pretty easy to see why this chapter jolted Kei-chan to the top of the character popularity polls in Japan. The kid can talk.

Also, this was probably the goriest episode of Higurashi yet. Especially

Spoiler:

Looks like Oishi is going to be the "Baddie" of this arc, but only because he's on the side of "justice" instead of the side of "friendship". Of course, that will probably change in an episode or two.

USCPharmacist · 2006-09-06, 01:50

All I can say is, do not trust a kid asking you to some places, like going to the police station or the dumpster, cuz you get "TRANSFER".....

Eleutheria · 2006-09-06, 10:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shiosai

There was a very short flashback involving Rena's mom becoming pregnant.

Spoiler:

PS.

READ THE TIPS FOR THIS EPISODE!

Especially the one called "My Favorite Wine (Ep. 23)". Holy crap. Funny, too.

Grey · 2006-09-06, 11:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eleutheria

READ THE TIPS FOR THIS EPISODE!

Especially the one called "My Favorite Wine (Ep. 23)". Holy crap. Funny, too.

Wow, yeah...that tip answers a whole lot in one fell swoop.

Spoiler for tip discussion:

So, it seems that a world reset--of unknown trigger--occurs with (only?) Rika retaining her memory. Also, it seems that there are common permutations and outcomes, with 'happy' ones being quite rare (all sixes). I bet another person who retained their memory could make a potent antagonist, with both trying to achieve their 'best world.' I wonder what triggers or prevents the reset though....

Rika getting drunk to while the time away? If I had to live a dozen years of my life over and over, I'd probably get pretty bored too! Still, the knowledge and talent I could acquire would be undoubtedly impressive....

So, Rika's talking to Oyashiro-sama is she (I believe Rika said she could talk to Oyashiro-sama)? It sounds like Oyashiro's a bit of a cry-baby...that's hilarious.
When I think about it, Rika's supposed to be Oyashiro, so I assume that this 'Spirit-Oyashiro' is a version from an earlier generation. Maybe 'Spirit Oyashiro' also faced multiple world resets, but somehow failed her 'reset-quest' and was trapped in spirit form. Or the previous Oyashiro did something which now Rika has to deal with in the form of world-resets, hence Rika's blaming the Oyashiro. Hmmm.

Also, S.Oyashiro can leave Rika's side...but what would S.Oyashiro do? Probably just wander around I suppose; maybe hang out with Rika's friends. I assume it's intangible, invisible, inaudible, and trapped in the Hinamizawa locale, so it couldn't do much other than that....

Can Rena sense it? She seems so Oyashiro-obsessed that maybe Rena has some awareness of it. But Rena was outside of Hinamizawa, so Oyashiro would have to be able to leave the locale (weird) if Oyashiro stalked her when Rena was going nuts and breaking school windows.

Does Spirit Oyashiro make people go nuts via her presence, or does she sense people who go nuts and follow them around because being psycho allows them to sense her? The former doesn't explain Rena going nuts, and the latter doesn't explain why being loony gives people ESP. Maybe going nuts has something to do with 'demon blood' (ie. Hinamizawa ancestors). Argh, answers = more questions. I assume 'hearing footsteps' and 'being watched over' refers to Spirit-Oyashiro....

Oh! At first I didn't know why Spirit-Oyashiro would be a long way away from Hinamizawa following Rena while she goes nuts, but maybe it's because Spirit-Oyashiro knew Rena from a previous reset and went to see her. Maybe S.Oyashiro likes Rena because Rena can sense her...hm. Argh, so many possibilities!

Anyway, Spirit Oyashiro sounds awesome.

Wanderer · 2006-09-06, 21:20

It seems the theme of these two arcs, Onikakushi-hen and Tsumihoroboshi-hen, is trust. In Onikakushi-hen, the trust fell apart and K1 went crazy, but in Tsumihoroboshi-hen it seems that everyone's friendship was stronger. So, was it just luck that led everyone to find out about Rena's crime? I am quite interested in how things are going to go wrong at this point.

So, lets say that a similar event happened in Onikakushi-hen... with Rena killing Rina and Teppei.

However, in Onikakushi-hen we didn't "roll a six" and K1 never found out about it. Even worse, Rena hid it from him. Mion, however, seems like she may have found out. Such a scenario would explain a lot of Rena's and Mion's behavior throughout the arc... In particular it explains why they would be upset at him talking with Ooishi considering that they were involved in something that would get them in trouble.

There is also that comment Rena made at the end of Watanagashi-hen/ Meakashi-hen about going with "Mion" to surrender to the police. Perhaps those two did the same thing in those arcs as well. Even more interesting is the idea that K1 was involved too... we just didn't see it.

And yeah, that "Favorite Wine" TIP is huge.

Matrim · 2006-09-06, 21:47

I didn't expect Rena's murderous activity to be so swift but I am not going to complain.

Quote:

However, in Onikakushi-hen we didn't "roll a six" and K1 never found out about it. Even worse, Rena hid it from him. Mion, however, seems like she may have found out. Such a scenario would explain a lot of Rena's and Mion's behavior throughout the arc... In particular it explains why they would be upset at him talking with Ooishi considering that they were involved in something that would get them in trouble.

Interesting idea but wouldn't Ooishi mention Teppei and Rina's dissapearance to K1? He seems to suspect Rena already.
Anyway, with Keiichi being the worst liar in the world I don't see the group keeping the secret for long in this arc.

This wine tip is mindblowingly confusing.

Oh, well, I guess my theory that the "scenarios" or parallel universes in different arcs are connected only as a means for the viewers to solve the mystery is pretty much dead now.

Sushi-Y · 2006-09-06, 22:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wanderer

It seems the theme of these two arcs, Onikakushi-hen and Tsumihoroboshi-hen, is trust. In Onikakushi-hen, the trust fell apart and K1 went crazy, but in Tsumihoroboshi-hen it seems that everyone's friendship was stronger. So, was it just luck that led everyone to find out about Rena's crime? I am quite interested in how things are going to go wrong at this point.

So, lets say that a similar event happened in Onikakushi-hen... with Rena killing Rina and Teppei.

However, in Onikakushi-hen we didn't "roll a six" and K1 never found out about it. Even worse, Rena hid it from him. Mion, however, seems like she may have found out. Such a scenario would explain a lot of Rena's and Mion's behavior throughout the arc... In particular it explains why they would be upset at him talking with Ooishi considering that they were involved in something that would get them in trouble.

It's not directly related to your Rena theory, but here's a hint: try reading this TIP from Tatarigoroshi-hen again.

Spoiler for two more hints, if you want them:

Eleutheria · 2006-09-07, 00:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grey

Spoiler for tip discussion:

So, it seems that a world reset--of unknown trigger--occurs with (only?) Rika retaining her memory. Also, it seems that there are common permutations and outcomes, with 'happy' ones being quite rare (all sixes). I bet another person who retained their memory could make a potent antagonist, with both trying to achieve their 'best world.' I wonder what triggers or prevents the reset though....

Rika getting drunk to while the time away? If I had to live a dozen years of my life over and over, I'd probably get pretty bored too! Still, the knowledge and talent I could acquire would be undoubtedly impressive....

So, Rika's talking to Oyashiro-sama is she (I believe Rika said she could talk to Oyashiro-sama)? It sounds like Oyashiro's a bit of a cry-baby...that's hilarious.
When I think about it, Rika's supposed to be Oyashiro, so I assume that this 'Spirit-Oyashiro' is a version from an earlier generation. Maybe 'Spirit Oyashiro' also faced multiple world resets, but somehow failed her 'reset-quest' and was trapped in spirit form. Or the previous Oyashiro did something which now Rika has to deal with in the form of world-resets, hence Rika's blaming the Oyashiro. Hmmm.

Also, S.Oyashiro can leave Rika's side...but what would S.Oyashiro do? Probably just wander around I suppose; maybe hang out with Rika's friends. I assume it's intangible, invisible, inaudible, and trapped in the Hinamizawa locale, so it couldn't do much other than that....

Can Rena sense it? She seems so Oyashiro-obsessed that maybe Rena has some awareness of it. But Rena was outside of Hinamizawa, so Oyashiro would have to be able to leave the locale (weird) if Oyashiro stalked her when Rena was going nuts and breaking school windows.

Does Spirit Oyashiro make people go nuts via her presence, or does she sense people who go nuts and follow them around because being psycho allows them to sense her? The former doesn't explain Rena going nuts, and the latter doesn't explain why being loony gives people ESP. Maybe going nuts has something to do with 'demon blood' (ie. Hinamizawa ancestors). Argh, answers = more questions. I assume 'hearing footsteps' and 'being watched over' refers to Spirit-Oyashiro....

Oh! At first I didn't know why Spirit-Oyashiro would be a long way away from Hinamizawa following Rena while she goes nuts, but maybe it's because Spirit-Oyashiro knew Rena from a previous reset and went to see her. Maybe S.Oyashiro likes Rena because Rena can sense her...hm. Argh, so many possibilities!

Anyway, Spirit Oyashiro sounds awesome.

I got the impression that it was Satoko who was chastizing Rika. After all they both talk about their impending doom.

LuckyCat · 2006-09-07, 02:15

Sushi, you are spoiling us with delicious tips.

I, I think I'm starting to get this now... (crosses fingers)

Wanderer · 2006-09-07, 03:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sushi-Y

It's not directly related to your Rena theory, but here's a hint: try reading this TIP from Tatarigoroshi-hen again.

Yeah, I had figured that what happened to Rina in Tatarigoroshi-hen was different... and it was probably a (the?) critical difference that lead things onto a different path. Obviously, since in Tatarigoroshi-hen Rina's death led Teppei to move back to Hinamizawa, which is a central event in the plot of that arc.

Because of the Watanagashi style torture, it definately seems that the prime suspects for Rina's murder in Tatarigoroshi-hen would be the Gosanke. It makes me wonder if Rena's encounter with Kasai and Shion has something to do with it. Of course, there's no guarantee that they even met at all in Tatarigoroshi-hen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sushi-Y

Spoiler for two more hints, if you want them:

Yeah again. I'm thinking along these lines, but of course just knowing what I am trying to find is only half the problem. I still have to find it. At this point just the what happenned? part is still not even fully clear. Thing is, all the arcs even start differently, so it is very hard to pinpoint where they diverge.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eleutheria

I got the impression that it was Satoko who was chastizing Rika. After all they both talk about their impending doom.

That's what I was thinking too at first, but read it again. It really makes more sense if it was Rika talking with Oyashiro-sama.

Another thing- the wine TIP also suggests that Rika did die a short time after Onikakushi-hen's conclusion... which would put Rika's death rate as 5 for 5.

Grey · 2006-09-07, 03:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wanderer

Yeah, I had figured that what happened to Rina in Tatarigoroshi-hen was different... and it was probably a (the?) critical difference that lead things onto a different path. Obviously, since in Tatarigoroshi-hen Rina's death led Teppei to move back to Hinamizawa, which is a central event in the plot of that arc.

Depending on the timeline...perhaps Rina didn't encounter Rena's father in Tatargoroshi, hence she had nothing to prevent her from making a shot at money by crossing the Sonozaki family. If she meets Rena's father, then she may feel more settled monetary-wise; hence, no getting Watanagashi'd for trying to embezzle Sonozaki's funds. That's the only 'trigger' that I can come up with given the present information.

Unless there are other variables, that would suggest that the Rena-Rina-Teppei events occur in all non-Tatargoroshi arcs. Unfortunately, I can't rule out other small, unknown changes that disrupt the standard permutations for arcs.

Seems that Rena moved to Shishibone after Meakashi, and Teppei is still alive, so events are slightly different. But Rina was looking at property in Shishibone in one of the arcs...another possible permutation in their relations.

Eleutheria · 2006-09-07, 10:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wanderer

That's what I was thinking too at first, but read it again. It really makes more sense if it was Rika talking with Oyashiro-sama.

Another thing- the wine TIP also suggests that Rika did die a short time after Onikakushi-hen's conclusion... which would put Rika's death rate as 5 for 5.

You may be right, since the "other" tells Rika when her death date will be.

Sushi-Y: was this TIP one of those all-text no character portrait ones?

View Poll Results: Higurashi Episode 23 Rating
Perfect 10	33	46.48%
9 out of 10 : Excellent	30	42.25%
8 out of 10 : Very Good	6	8.45%
7 out of 10 : Good	1	1.41%
6 out of 10 : Average	0	0%
5 out of 10 : Below Average	0	0%
4 out of 10 : Poor	0	0%
3 out of 10 : Bad	0	0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad	0	0%
1 out of 10 : Painful	1	1.41%
Voters: 71. You may not vote on this poll

2006-09-04, 22:56	Link #1
kj1980 Gomen asobase desuwa! Join Date: Nov 2003 Age: 43	Higurashi Episode 23 Discussion / Poll Welcome to the discussion thread for Higurashi no Naku Koroni, Episode 23. Thread Guidelines No telling or asking for RAWs. Try to keep spoilers from the Game or Manga out of the anime thread. If you need to in reply to someone with a reference to the Game / Manga, either PM them or use Spoiler tags (see example below). Discuss your expectations of the episode if not aired. Be polite to your fellow forum members. Try to keep the discussion on topic and future episode spoilers out of the thread whenever possible. Spoiler Tag Usage Using Spoiler Tags is easy. Using this... [spoiler=title]Don't forget to use the spoiler title[/spoiler] ....will get you this... Spoiler for title: Don't forget to use the spoiler title ADDITIONAL RULES FOR Higurashi no Naku Koroni Make sure you read the English wikipedia article for Higurashi no Naku Koroni before you ask questions!!! Feel free to utilize the info on the TIPS section as a complement to this series. Feel free to share your theories and speculations. In fact, I encourage you to do so as this is what makes this series interesting. I am designating Sushi-Y and Freakman to lead the discussion in the correct path without spoilers as they have played the game in advance. I put confidence in them that they will recognize a member has spilled the beans too far if any other members has begun to play the game. SPOILERS FAR ADVANCED THAN THE CURRENT AIRED ANIME EPISODE WILL NOT BE TOLERATED. THIS INCLUDES THOSE IN SPOILER TAGS!!!. People tend to peek at spoiler tags; especially when they do not know such tag is meant for the episode, only to find it spilling the beans too far advanced in the game storyline.

2006-09-05, 14:54	Link #3
LuckyCat Wise Kitty Cat Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: San Diego, CA	Having not played the game, I don't know if they did them right. But a lot of shit hits the fan this episode. Spoiler for episode details: I love the way they all banded together to protect Rena. And that song they play, it's pretty dang awesome. Track 1 on the soundtrack. Also: Damn you, Ooishi! Gave it a 9. Last edited by LuckyCat; 2006-09-06 at 03:18.

2006-09-05, 18:54	Link #4
Sushi-Y 湯音カワユス~ Scanlator Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Canada Age: 38	It felt like the story was played in fast-forward until the confrontation scene between Rena and Rina at the dump site, which, I guess, isn't that big of a deal, as long as the major points are delivered. Now then, the most important scenes in this part of the story were obviously: Spoiler: The killing of Rina and Teppei. As well as the scene after the end of the flashback, where everyone accepted and forgave Rena's deeds. In that respect, I think this episode actually did a pretty good job with them (Rena's expressions were very nice throughout it all ), despite some memorable lines and scenes skipped through: Spoiler: For example, each of the club members saying "I forgive you" to Rena for her actions, and at the same time, asking for Rena's forgiveness for not being enough of a comrade for her to trust. Also, the scene of Rena crying could've lasted a little longer than 5 seconds (it was the ONLY CG in the entire game, after all. It deserved some more weight). Other than that, a satisfactory episode. Too bad it ended with me bursting out in laughters at Kura-chan's "Hmph! cool guy smirk" Now, next week's episode is actually going to be quite important, if done right, it should shock and amaze people. Done wrong, and it'll be wtf denpa-talk hell for non-gamers. I'm just going to play "Sheep counts" over the anime's bgm when it begins.

2006-09-05, 22:43	Link #9
chrno_the_sinner Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2004	Well, even with barely understanding what was happening, it's pretty easy to see why this chapter jolted Kei-chan to the top of the character popularity polls in Japan. The kid can talk. Also, this was probably the goriest episode of Higurashi yet. Especially Spoiler: Teppei's head essentially being spilt almost in half. Rina's teeth and eye were gory too. Not to mention the cutting of the body parts into small chunks. Looks like Oishi is going to be the "Baddie" of this arc, but only because he's on the side of "justice" instead of the side of "friendship". Of course, that will probably change in an episode or two.

2006-09-04, 22:58	Link #2
kj1980 Gomen asobase desuwa! Join Date: Nov 2003 Age: 43	Yes I know it is earlier than usual, but I have bunch of stuff to take care of tomorrow. In any case, here's the thread for Ep. 23. Have fun! I hope they do the pivotal scenes right....

2006-09-05, 19:47	Link #5
kj1980 Gomen asobase desuwa! Join Date: Nov 2003 Age: 43	Did they go over Rena's past? If not, I'll have to ask LostBlue to add that to the TIPS...

2006-09-05, 20:04	Link #6
LuckyCat Wise Kitty Cat Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: San Diego, CA	There was a very short flashback involving Rena's mom becoming pregnant.

2006-09-05, 22:35	Link #8
Arimfe SharpenerOfTheBoxcutter Join Date: May 2006 Location: where Grudge is Greatest, Rancour Endless and Malice Eternal(at school^^;;)	Rena's weapon was upgraded Now Rena also has that awesome bonebreaker/saw/axe thing Rena is just awesome that way after all Poor Rena getting strangled like that.......unforgiveable....kana??!!?! Go Rena girl!!!! GO Whack them all!!!! This episode just proves it, you just can't be safe even at your own little secret base at a dump site with lots of cute things without having your trusty cleaver ready to draw at any time Speaking of secret bases, Rena is more boyish than I thought having a secret base like that..... ... .. Khyaaaaaa Rena is too cute after all (anything about Rena is cute ) goes to vote for Rena in character poll

2006-09-06, 01:50	Link #10
USCPharmacist Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2004	All I can say is, do not trust a kid asking you to some places, like going to the police station or the dumpster, cuz you get "TRANSFER".....

2006-09-06, 21:20	Link #13
Wanderer Goat Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Gnawing away at Rokkenjima	It seems the theme of these two arcs, Onikakushi-hen and Tsumihoroboshi-hen, is trust. In Onikakushi-hen, the trust fell apart and K1 went crazy, but in Tsumihoroboshi-hen it seems that everyone's friendship was stronger. So, was it just luck that led everyone to find out about Rena's crime? I am quite interested in how things are going to go wrong at this point. So, lets say that a similar event happened in Onikakushi-hen... with Rena killing Rina and Teppei. However, in Onikakushi-hen we didn't "roll a six" and K1 never found out about it. Even worse, Rena hid it from him. Mion, however, seems like she may have found out. Such a scenario would explain a lot of Rena's and Mion's behavior throughout the arc... In particular it explains why they would be upset at him talking with Ooishi considering that they were involved in something that would get them in trouble. There is also that comment Rena made at the end of Watanagashi-hen/ Meakashi-hen about going with "Mion" to surrender to the police. Perhaps those two did the same thing in those arcs as well. Even more interesting is the idea that K1 was involved too... we just didn't see it. And yeah, that "Favorite Wine" TIP is huge.

2006-09-07, 02:15	Link #17
LuckyCat Wise Kitty Cat Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: San Diego, CA	Sushi, you are spoiling us with delicious tips. I, I think I'm starting to get this now... (crosses fingers)