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GoddyofAus · 2012-07-01, 10:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atrum023

I think he's referring to Mikoto's role in the long run. After all, you yourself had said that Mikoto's role starts waning as time goes on (at least until recently).

That is true, but I don't know whether that's due to Kamachi losing interest in her as a character or he just doesn't know how to use her outside of the romance plot with Kamijou, although I should mention that NT3 was a strong return to form for her as you alluded to, so maybe NT5 will be similar.

Miraluka · 2012-07-01, 11:24

If you mean main characters yeah, but when it comes to MAIN PROTAGONISTS they are:
- Touma Kamijou.
- Accelerator.
- Shiage Hamazura.

Yeah, the last guy will have a more important role in the series and have a big involvement in the deep darkness of the Science Side.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoddyofAus

That is true, but I don't know whether that's due to Kamachi losing interest in her as a character or he just doesn't know how to use her outside of the romance plot with Kamijou, although I should mention that NT3 was a strong return to form for her as you alluded to, so maybe NT5 will be similar.

She was dumped in the same volume at the end tough.

From the interviews the question felt more like pressure to make the author give Mikoto a more relevant role after Vol.22 (which made a group of fans to rage and destroy their good because there wasn't enough "interaction" with Mikoto at the end -__________-

.

Candyshark · 2012-07-01, 12:09

I personally dislike when authors are forced to keep certain characters just to avoid fans raging. Bisedes Index has enough girls to get their glimpse of shine:P

Kenju of the Right · 2012-07-01, 12:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wilfriback

(which made a group of fans to rage and destroy their good because there wasn't enough "interaction" with Mikoto at the end -__________-

.

Ah yes that, their rage pleased me

But Misaka has the popularity, although it doesn't mean shes as important as Index.
You can take Misaka's existence out of the series and it would still be able to hold together(although it would still be pretty fucked up on part of the science side because of Aliester's plan with the sisters and Accelerator would probably not be where he is)
However if you take Index out, shit freaking crumbles. Touma just continues his life as a Level 0 Esper.

Phibrizzo · 2012-07-01, 13:23

Yeah I know the feeling... like hating Touma.

Mikoto while good it isn't really needed, in the words of the professor "Aliester can make another level 5" and electromaster are a common bred.

Miraluka · 2012-07-01, 13:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Candyshark

I personally dislike when authors are forced to keep certain characters just to avoid fans raging. Bisedes Index has enough girls to get their glimpse of shine:P

If my friends are to be trusted, something like that happened with Sasuke on Naruto's manga but is different since the author likes said character

.

Acer · 2012-07-01, 17:15

Although it makes sense, but sometimes I think Kamachi worry about the popularity of Mikoto and perhaps unintentionally belittling it ends. I felt this when I read volumes 1 and 2 of the NT, that although she has amazing abilities, it's not irreplaceable or really special.

Destined_Fate · 2012-07-01, 22:13

It's the curse of popularity, there has been demand for more Mikoto every year even when she was at the center stage. Mikoto can't be the star every time but due to her popularity she will be brought up whenever possible because fans want more Mikoto - espeially her interactions with Touma. Letting her sit on the sidelines every once and awhile is good since it prevents her from being too overused, thus making people hate her, and it will make her return to the spotlight all the greater and help spur a surge in sales.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenju of the Right

Ah yes that, their rage pleased me

But Misaka has the popularity, although it doesn't mean shes as important as Index.
You can take Misaka's existence out of the series and it would still be able to hold together(although it would still be pretty fucked up on part of the science side because of Aliester's plan with the sisters and Accelerator would probably not be where he is)
However if you take Index out, shit freaking crumbles. Touma just continues his life as a Level 0 Esper.

No, that's false. Index needs Mikoto just like it needs Touma, Index, and later Accelerator. Many things simply wouldn't have happen or possible if Mikoto was never in the series. The series would be missing a lot of things that fans came to beloved and without Mikoto there would never have been an Accelerator or his heel face turn. Thus missing another major character as well as many of Railgun not being possible, except a few instances that wouldn't be possible anyway either since they require earlier plot points that depend on Mikoto, without Mikoto since she's the star of that as well. Saying Mikoto isn't important is belittling considering all she has accomplished and how many characters, plots, and organizations wouldn't exist without her.

Making another level 5 Esper that's a electromaster isn't the same as Mikoto. That's like saying you can replace Touma with just another Level 0 Esper or Index with another loli, it just wouldn't work and the series wouldn't be what it is today without those 3.

Sumeragi · 2012-07-01, 22:19

Mikoto is what you might say the normal/good aspect of Academy City. As much as there are possible replacements, I would have to say that she's a big foundation on keeping things together.

Destined_Fate · 2012-07-01, 22:27

Well not everyone can be in the darkness and a lot of characters have made it their mission to keep her out of the darkness. Even Touma does and he promised to protect her and the world around her, letting her learn the truth about the darkness of Academy City, magic, ect and what's really happening in the world at large would shatter her "world" as she knows it. Which sorta explains why Touma refused to tell Mikoto the truth about the pole, and was very clear when he was trying to protect her which lead to her getting the wrong idea that he was trying to be romantic/overprotective, when he was after you know who since he didn't want her to know about magic. Or why the Aztec dude wants to protect Mikoto, even though he can't be with her, and does it from the shadows without her knowledge on what's really going on.

Kenju of the Right · 2012-07-01, 23:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

It's the curse of popularity, there has been demand for more Mikoto every year even when she was at the center stage. Mikoto can't be the star every time but due to her popularity she will be brought up whenever possible because fans want more Mikoto - espeially her interactions with Touma. Letting her sit on the sidelines every once and awhile is good since it prevents her from being too overused, thus making people hate her, and it will make her return to the spotlight all the greater and help spur a surge in sales.

No, that's false. Index needs Mikoto just like it needs Touma, Index, and later Accelerator. Many things simply wouldn't have happen or possible if Mikoto was never in the series. The series would be missing a lot of things that fans came to beloved and without Mikoto there would never have been an Accelerator or his heel face turn. Thus missing another major character as well as many of Railgun not being possible, except a few instances that wouldn't be possible anyway either since they require earlier plot points that depend on Mikoto, without Mikoto since she's the star of that as well. Saying Mikoto isn't important is belittling considering all she has accomplished and how many characters, plots, and organizations wouldn't exist without her.

Making another level 5 Esper that's a electromaster isn't the same as Mikoto. That's like saying you can replace Touma with just another Level 0 Esper or Index with another loli, it just wouldn't work and the series wouldn't be what it is today without those 3.

So you completely skip across that I said she wasn't as important as Index and just think I said wasn't important at all? It dosen't matter what the fans like, that dosen't make her important in the story. You say the many character, plots and organizations that wouldn't exist without her that's just ridiculous most of the Index anime has to do with the Magic Side. Index and Touma are one of a kind, Index has 130,000 magic books and Touma has Imagine Breaker, another Level 5 Electromaster that can be used for cloning can be created.

Even though we wouldn't have Misaka we would still have
Volume 1
Volume 2
maybe Volume 3
Volume 4
Volume 5(some)
Volume 6
Volume 7
Volume 9 & 10
Volume 11
maybe half of Volume 13
Covering the anime
Now without Index
we would just have Volume 3, 5, 8 and half of 13

Because Touma has been only involved in those incidents because Necessarious will take Index away if Touma doesn't do what they say.

Destined_Fate · 2012-07-01, 23:19

No she is just as important as Index. Without Touma, Index, and Mikoto there would be no Index series. They're all needed, without one than Index wouldn't be what it is today and would have ended a long time ago. Especially since Mikoto and Mikoto x Touma has a huge popular following that no other character or pairing comes close to reaching(Other than Touma and Index at that time) unless you count Accelerator/Last Order and they can't exist without Mikoto either. You can't replace any of them with just a generic level 5(We have seen enough already, none can fill the shoes of Mikoto), level 0(We have plenty already, none can fill the shoes of Touma), or loli(We have more than enough Loli's, none can fill the shoes of Index). They're all too important to the Index verse and too many things rely on them simply existing and the actions they take which causes a ripple effect to another event which leads to another.

You also failed to mention that all the characters that rely on Mikoto wouldn't exist if she was cut thus all their stories and the character introduced in their stories wouldn't exist either thus there are a lot more volumes that would be cut than the ones you metioned(If it even goes that far missing such a major and important character). Just like how without Index there would be very little, other than happenstance, to get Touma brought into the magic side of the world or the many plots and characters that rely on Index bringing Touma into that side of the world or her simply existing.

It isn't just a simple "Hey, just remove her from the story. It only effects things about her", when in fact it's "Hey, if we remove her than we would have to not only remove her stories and all references to her but all the characters and stories that rely on her stories and her existing".

It's a ripple effect. Touma, Index, and Mikoto are Rome, all roads will eventually lead back to them. They're that important to the story, without them many things wouldn't be possible and Index wouldn't have come as far as it has without them.

Than there are the games that rely heavily on Touma, Index, and Mikoto....

Atrum023 · 2012-07-01, 23:40

I don't think that's what Kenju of the Right is trying to get at. Even if Mikoto is gone, the Index series wouldn't be as heavily affected as say if Index herself was gone. Sure there would definitely be some notable things missing but in terms of sheer impact to the plot, Index holds the greater cake here.

Kenju of the Right · 2012-07-01, 23:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atrum023

I don't think that's what Kenju of the Right is trying to get at. Even if Mikoto is gone, the Index series wouldn't be as heavily affected as say if Index herself was gone. Sure there would definitely be some notable things missing but in terms of sheer impact to the plot, Index holds the greater cake here.

Yes, Exacta

rubix22 · 2012-07-01, 23:43

I'd like to think that the world in the toaru series is extensive enough so that anyone can become a 'protagonist'. I mean, the story doesn't really revolve around these characters. More like, each character has their own perspective on what's happening.

leukrota · 2012-07-02, 00:07

Damn it people... stop it with the spoiler galore... Or better yet, edit your posts to properly use the spoiler tag.

Phibrizzo · 2012-07-02, 00:07

Kenju as much as I love to see u suffer and your professed religion... is a bad idea to keep this debate going.

Kenju of the Right · 2012-07-02, 00:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phibrizzo

Kenju as much as I love to see u suffer and your professed religion... is a bad idea to keep this debate going.

Yes yes I know that's why I stopped. I said what I had to say
Wait...suffer?

Destined_Fate · 2012-07-02, 01:42

What spoilers exactly? -.- Geeze, everything being discuessed is in the anime and all references to the Manga/LN are purposely being kept vague so that you aren't being spoiled. I'm starting to wonder if you've read the posts or are just screaming spoilers for the sake of it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atrum023

I don't think that's what Kenju of the Right is trying to get at. Even if Mikoto is gone, the Index series wouldn't be as heavily affected as say if Index herself was gone. Sure there would definitely be some notable things missing but in terms of sheer impact to the plot, Index holds the greater cake here.

It would be heavily effected because Mikoto is needed for many things. At the start maybe, but considering everything that has happened there would be no way Index could have turned out as it did, or garnered such popularity or bringing in characters like Accelerator/Last Order/Everyone from Railgun/ect, without Mikoto. Mikoto is just as important as the other two leads.

Without Index the magic side would be lost and without Mikoto the scient side would be lost. Touma can only do so much with either side without Index or Mikoto helping to bridge that side over so that he can cross over to it.

leukrota · 2012-07-02, 02:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

What spoilers exactly? -.- Geeze, everything being discuessed is in the anime and all references to the Manga/LN are purposely being kept vague so that you aren't being spoiled. I'm starting to wonder if you've read the posts or are just screaming spoilers for the sake of it.

Hrrrmmm...

... I guess they are mostly vague enough. Though I still feel bad for the people who have seen only the anime when arguments make reference to future events (for them) since it makes them unable to counterargument...

The way this discussion is going I think would fit better in Mikoto's character thread or the light novel thread.

2012-07-01, 23:19	Link #1052
Destined_Fate Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: "Sacrifice one to appease the few."	No she is just as important as Index. Without Touma, Index, and Mikoto there would be no Index series. They're all needed, without one than Index wouldn't be what it is today and would have ended a long time ago. Especially since Mikoto and Mikoto x Touma has a huge popular following that no other character or pairing comes close to reaching(Other than Touma and Index at that time) unless you count Accelerator/Last Order and they can't exist without Mikoto either. You can't replace any of them with just a generic level 5(We have seen enough already, none can fill the shoes of Mikoto), level 0(We have plenty already, none can fill the shoes of Touma), or loli(We have more than enough Loli's, none can fill the shoes of Index). They're all too important to the Index verse and too many things rely on them simply existing and the actions they take which causes a ripple effect to another event which leads to another. You also failed to mention that all the characters that rely on Mikoto wouldn't exist if she was cut thus all their stories and the character introduced in their stories wouldn't exist either thus there are a lot more volumes that would be cut than the ones you metioned(If it even goes that far missing such a major and important character). Just like how without Index there would be very little, other than happenstance, to get Touma brought into the magic side of the world or the many plots and characters that rely on Index bringing Touma into that side of the world or her simply existing. It isn't just a simple "Hey, just remove her from the story. It only effects things about her", when in fact it's "Hey, if we remove her than we would have to not only remove her stories and all references to her but all the characters and stories that rely on her stories and her existing". It's a ripple effect. Touma, Index, and Mikoto are Rome, all roads will eventually lead back to them. They're that important to the story, without them many things wouldn't be possible and Index wouldn't have come as far as it has without them. Than there are the games that rely heavily on Touma, Index, and Mikoto.... Last edited by Destined_Fate; 2012-07-01 at 23:32.

2012-07-01, 23:40	Link #1053
Atrum023 Eternal Silence Join Date: Jul 2011	I don't think that's what Kenju of the Right is trying to get at. Even if Mikoto is gone, the Index series wouldn't be as heavily affected as say if Index herself was gone. Sure there would definitely be some notable things missing but in terms of sheer impact to the plot, Index holds the greater cake here. __________________ 不幸だ...

2012-07-01, 23:43	Link #1055
rubix22 On Cleaning Duty Join Date: Jun 2011	I'd like to think that the world in the toaru series is extensive enough so that anyone can become a 'protagonist'. I mean, the story doesn't really revolve around these characters. More like, each character has their own perspective on what's happening. __________________

2012-07-01, 12:09	Link #1043
Candyshark Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011	I personally dislike when authors are forced to keep certain characters just to avoid fans raging. Bisedes Index has enough girls to get their glimpse of shine:P

2012-07-01, 13:23	Link #1045
Phibrizzo Honos628 Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Mexico	Yeah I know the feeling... like hating Touma. Mikoto while good it isn't really needed, in the words of the professor "Aliester can make another level 5" and electromaster are a common bred.

2012-07-01, 17:15	Link #1047
Acer Death to the infidels! Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: in a world of pain!	Although it makes sense, but sometimes I think Kamachi worry about the popularity of Mikoto and perhaps unintentionally belittling it ends. I felt this when I read volumes 1 and 2 of the NT, that although she has amazing abilities, it's not irreplaceable or really special.

2012-07-01, 22:19	Link #1049
Sumeragi Banned Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Dai Korai Teikoku	Mikoto is what you might say the normal/good aspect of Academy City. As much as there are possible replacements, I would have to say that she's a big foundation on keeping things together.

2012-07-01, 22:27	Link #1050
Destined_Fate Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: "Sacrifice one to appease the few."	Well not everyone can be in the darkness and a lot of characters have made it their mission to keep her out of the darkness. Even Touma does and he promised to protect her and the world around her, letting her learn the truth about the darkness of Academy City, magic, ect and what's really happening in the world at large would shatter her "world" as she knows it. Which sorta explains why Touma refused to tell Mikoto the truth about the pole, and was very clear when he was trying to protect her which lead to her getting the wrong idea that he was trying to be romantic/overprotective, when he was after you know who since he didn't want her to know about magic. Or why the Aztec dude wants to protect Mikoto, even though he can't be with her, and does it from the shadows without her knowledge on what's really going on.

2012-07-02, 00:07	Link #1056
leukrota Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2011	Damn it people... stop it with the spoiler galore... Or better yet, edit your posts to properly use the spoiler tag.

2012-07-02, 00:07	Link #1057
Phibrizzo Honos628 Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Mexico	Kenju as much as I love to see u suffer and your professed religion... is a bad idea to keep this debate going.