2010-12-19, 16:33 | Link #19962 |
The True Culprit
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@Lion's gender: I'm on the fence on this one. For one, I love my hermaphrodite idea, and the idea that the deciding difference between Clair's and Lion's worlds are whether they're Female or Male, respectively.
Though I also like the idea that Clair has no idea what her original gender was; perhaps she wasn't told, and in the accident, whatever she was is so torn up they basically had to make her a sexless eunuch. Thus we have Shannon and Kanon, and Lion refuses to acknowledge which gender he is, because it's a catbox. Shannon and Kanon are clearly the same person one way or another. It's just been so heavily pushed on us at this point that any argument to make them two separate individuals is just trying to dodge the obvious. But they're no split personalities or anything of the sort. Yasu's mind is much too coherent for that; she's just acting out the parts her own self and imagining them as imaginary friends.
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2010-12-19, 16:56 | Link #19963 |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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I think she's simply female.
And I really doubt Ryuukishi is going to tell us that he wrote a story longer than war & peace to narrate the predicament and the love stories of a dickless boy.
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2010-12-19, 17:19 | Link #19964 | |
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I mean, I agree Yasu and Lion are most likely female, but it IS Japan... |
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2010-12-19, 17:28 | Link #19965 |
Endless Member
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So, is anyone else getting ready to do an entire reread of all the episodes with a "key" in mind?
I'm going to go back and see if "Yasu" fits with what we've been shown before, as well as "Kyrie and Rudolf as the culprits," though I can't see that working in the first few episodes. |
2010-12-19, 18:03 | Link #19966 | |
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2010-12-19, 18:16 | Link #19967 |
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Meta-Meta-Meta-Space
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Well, I think Yasu and her Epitaph game were one of the keys we were given in EP5 and 6... and now very clearly in EP7, though we're asked to believe that she also wants to kill people at the end...
But in EP7, the other key we're given, which we kinda guessed already is that the siblings will get into revenge killings... or after-the-fact killings; however we should call it. Basically, they themselves will commit murders and this *also* causes noise. I think there's one more key because I think some people will agree that it feels like there's one more 'thing' that causes these murders. If we have two keys; and we go back and find something that could not be started with these two... then we have evidence of a third... i.e. I'm thinking of the "Mastermind" as we call him, who has his or *her* own plans for murder independent of the siblings and the Yasu/Beatrice plan... *cough*George*cough*. |
2010-12-19, 18:19 | Link #19968 |
18782+18782=37564
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: InterWebs
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Yasu is an eunuch lol.
Also, regarding Berune's missing master-key case, I'm wondering if it could be done simply by placing the key and the preparing the incomplete key-ring before hand (using Yasu's own key-ring) and just switch it with the one Berune threw on the bed when she's not looking. Also, I'm now even more sure that Shannon never really existed, and possibly, Shannon really was Yasu's fukuin name, though I can't know for sure. Maybe I'll list all possible indications of Shannon-never-existed that I spotted. -Shannon is already 'there' and appeared as an adult when Yasu first arrived in Rokkenjima. This should be impossible. -The scene where Yasu started becoming a witch and Shannon forget about her, Shannon suddenly mentioned going to school and reading mystery novels, which should be Yasu's memory. -Also, prior to that, no single servant react to what Shannon said at all. I mean, you can strip all of Shannon's dialogue and what you get is Yasu talking to herself and not the other servants. -Then there's that being the only one not in a three-people room I used to favor the Double-Shkanon theory over the traditional one, but I think now that either wouldn't matter. I'm pretty convinced now that Shannon and Kanon exist only in the mystery gameboard and not the Prime. *Currently re-reading the posts here from about 4 months ago* EDIT: Found it at last. Recommended read for those new to the Umineko speculation thread. It's one of the current generally accepted theory, though much has changed.
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Last edited by erneiz_hyde; 2010-12-19 at 18:59. |
2010-12-19, 18:31 | Link #19969 | |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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I don't think there's much to debate about that. That's what happened.
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2010-12-19, 18:44 | Link #19970 |
The Light that Guides
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Canada
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Yeah, I thought about too. Everything in episode 7 seems to point to the fact that Shannon, Beatrice, and Gaap were all illusions or people that Yasu would like to become if he/she wasn't so imperfect. If we think about it, in EP2 Jessica gave "Kanon" some advice about projecting different selfs so that they could live life the way they want. From this, its also possible to assume that Kanon doesn't exist and that Yasu was actually the person listening to Jessica, and from this got the idea of creating Shannon and such. That or split personalities...although I didn't wanna accept the logic, it seems that Yasu=Shannon=Gaap=Beatrice=Kanon.
I was pleased with this episode, but I wished Will could've explained all the tricks without riddles, just to prove if our theories were 100%right. On another hand, there's the conflicting final games being made by two GM...one game by Battler to show a "bittersweet" truth and one brutal one by Bernkastel...so which one do we pick to be the actual truth?
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2010-12-19, 18:52 | Link #19971 |
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I was thinking about this as well, basically the ego and super ego aspects of those scenes. Yasu's super ego is Shannon, somewhere along the line she creates an ego of Beatrice. Then that Beatrice becomes the super ego for Maria, which already had created an ego that saw herself as a witch/divinity.
In regard to the endings we got the Sweet Ending in EP6, the Bitter one in EP7. We will probably get a real Bittersweet ending with EP8 unless the choices lead to a worst ending than the one in EP7 |
2010-12-19, 19:04 | Link #19972 | |
18782+18782=37564
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Location: InterWebs
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2010-12-19, 19:06 | Link #19973 |
The Light that Guides
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Canada
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Though Will did bring up a good point, in the Tea Party of EP7, there were no clues whatsoever that pointed to a murder...no, it actually means that a mystery wasn't possible. After performing Beato's funeral, we're led to believe that this is truly a mystery, not a fantasy found by a witch....who's half a cat...and half a *****.
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2010-12-19, 19:10 | Link #19975 | |
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e- maybe you got confused, when I said that Yasu's super ego is based on Shannon I meant the one that she tried to imitate, not the one she later created. |
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2010-12-19, 19:18 | Link #19977 |
Mystery buff
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gone Fishin!
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I've had this weird vibe that George is Ronove since episode 3. But I believed Ronove was Genji for well stating he was in a later episode.
The scene where Maria named everybody made me think there could be more people than just Yasu there that are pretending. I also didn't really base that idea off of anything conclusive so you can just forget I said it if you want.
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2010-12-19, 19:21 | Link #19978 | |
The Light that Guides
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Canada
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But I'll just ignore that George = Ronove, since then I'd have to assume Battler and Jessica are Virgillia and Gaap, and that might not match up too well : P
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2010-12-19, 19:39 | Link #19980 |
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Anyone got any theories on what they think Ep 8 will be about? It seems that pretty much everything has already been clearly answered except for the "How dunnit?"
The last scene of Ep 7 confuses me a bit though. It seems like Ange is imaging/fantasizing/pretending that Battler is going to tell her that nothing bad happened on Rokkenjima. Maybe the story "Battler" will tell Ange, is the tale he wrote for Beatrice? And it might be possible that in Ep 8 Bern is going to twist Battler's tale into the worst possible outcome. So Ep 8 could be about Bern and Battler fighting over the true outcome of Battler's tale for Ange's sake. |
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