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Old 2017-07-17, 16:07   Link #401
sasuke706
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Areswarlord View Post
Ok so how his Golem making different form undead making? and also how does job changes work like do they lose something after every job?
It isn't any different. It's just putting a soul into an inanimate object or material compared to a corpse.
Not entirely sure why he's able to morph the material as well, but I imagine it's something to do with making the material "fit" the soul, which is decided by Van.
They aren't brought up as being undead often but they technically aren't any different from the living armors or cursed swords.

There isn't really a negative side to changing jobs. Some jobs seem to have passive abilities that don't actually become skills, though.
Like he gets a zombie maker job and things around him start to become undead dramatically easier and without his intent.
The only thing with jobs is once you go to an advanced job (like going from warrior to knight, a direct upgrade kind of thing) is that they tend to level slower than novice jobs.
Plus the more you level and more you have, it's supposed to be harder to level. Not that Van ever shows that. That and people often hit "walls" which is basically periods in their life where they level up VERY slowly for a long time.
Typically people have to overcome their limits (AKA fight a strong mob) to get past this, but it's noted that many adventurers will give up and go on to do other things during this period.
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Old 2017-07-18, 16:14   Link #402
Breimn
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What a pity.
At least he shows us his new OP disease skill.
And if he manages to eat tge god he will get another powerup.
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Old 2017-07-18, 16:41   Link #403
sasuke706
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Seems likely that he'll kill the god and maybe heroic spirits there that were training them.
Since Curatos said that Gufadgarn was isolating the dungeon from the gods. It's about time she showed some sort of ability toward dungeons outside of the one she made.
Of course this also likely means that the gods IN the dungeon are also trapped there. Since he wants them to flee from the dungeon, odds are Vandalieu's going to destroy the dungeon and end the trial.
Might be a bit difficult since he's been using quite a bit of mana and whatnot, though.

The funny part is while they are exhausted, Vandalieu's also fighting them in an imperfect state.
He has no ghost magic, he can't use his 'equip colony' skill to use allies and making him unusually alone, he can't drink their blood to recover since it's fake blood, he can't sense death in the fake body to predict moves, he doesn't have his new god staff or other items like blood potions, couldn't make golems, etc. And he still managed to kill two of them, gravely wound another, and was fending off the other two. Basically he was winning anyway.
Plus he just awakened to his Soul Fighting skill and isn't used to using it, although he seems to gain more eyes and mouths to use in this form which can be counted as a plus.

So much for Edgar dying for real, though. Oh well, this was the scenario I was hoping for most but I also kinda wanted to see one of them ACTUALLY die and all.
I mean, I suppose Deliza can still die, but I find it unlikely.

Last edited by sasuke706; 2017-07-18 at 16:57.
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Old 2017-07-18, 17:33   Link #404
bludvein
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Curatos is totally waving those death flags though, so I'm not that upset with Heinz's party all surviving. He killed 2 and had the other 3 on the ropes despite having a large chunk of abilities restricted. They obviously would've been devoured by his blood organisms(soul and all) given another minute or so, so I'd say the fight was pretty satisfactory.

With the dungeon destroyed, Heinz's party won't have much room to get stronger.

Last edited by bludvein; 2017-07-19 at 03:41.
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Old 2017-07-19, 04:42   Link #405
Breimn
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I wonder if those 3 did get weakened, Mc did eat a good part of their souls after all.
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Old 2017-07-20, 04:48   Link #406
Areswarlord
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Thanks again so what's the deal with Alda? does he and Vida and Vandalieu ever talk or meet?
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Old 2017-07-22, 17:44   Link #407
sasuke706
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^Vandalieu has never met Alda. Or more like, no living person we know has met Alda. We see Alda quite a bit as the reader, though.
He has met Vida though. Vida's also sort of became Dalcia. It's complicated.

Well Vandalieu's unique skill list is becoming longer than most people's entire skill lists.
Surprised that Dalcia/Vida was the one who was helping Gufadgarn break in. And she nonchalantly gave away the one piece of information Vandalieu was trying to keep away from them.
Oh well, Van's got some new fun skills in exchange so it looks like he can probably make a 'trial dungeon' of his own if he wants. And Alda's Bellwood trial has become a giant waste of effort; it's just an empty dungeon now (since all the clones disappeared with Curatos).
Edit: Actually, he mentioned isolating 10 floors or so (the bottom ones) to save them from the destruction, so maybe they're still functional? Or at the very least Curatos mentioned sparing a certain man at least (not sure who). Maybe it was a copy of himself with memories detailing what he learned of Van during it all, but I imagine the surviving heroic spirits can basically teach others the same stuff.
Plus we learned that Vandalieu can eat his own soul if ever needs to. For no real effect, but he can.

Looks like Heinz is going to get a title that goes beyond the previous slanderous one.
The author also hinted at Alda taking some damage through Van's reckless destruction of the dungeon.

Meanwhile, the heroic spirit he also ate seems to done very little for him. Hah.

Last edited by sasuke706; 2017-07-22 at 18:28.
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Old 2017-07-22, 18:10   Link #408
lexlexz
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Originally Posted by sasuke706 View Post
And she nonchalantly gave away the one piece of information Vandalieu was trying to keep away from them.
which piece of information was Vandalieu trying to keep away from them ?
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Old 2017-07-22, 18:16   Link #409
sasuke706
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That Dalcia was alive again. His biggest fear is basically Heinz once again going after Dalcia again despite any rational thought, so he didn't want to give him any hints whatsoever about her.
Hell, Curatos had Heinz kill a Dalcia copy right in front him during the fight, which probably isn't doing Van's mentality any favors.
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Old 2017-07-22, 19:58   Link #410
bludvein
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Alda should definitely be hurt, but not because of the dungeon and more because of the loss of Curatos. The dungeon wasn't connected to his godhead like Curatos was even though it cost a lot of effort to create. The author already said it should hurt much more than the crushed Ice Age did for Yupeon, which left her screaming(heard by everyone with her blessing) and crying blood from her images.

I wonder how Alda's church will react when the same happens to him. He's going to be having a fit.
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Old 2017-07-22, 20:20   Link #411
sasuke706
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I think you have it backwards. Alda would be hurt because the dungeon was made by his divinity/goodhood and thus connected to it, where Curatos was his own independent god and his loss itself is more damaging mentally and organizationally.
Yupeon being hurt would be because the spirit in Ice Age was literally a portion of him(her?)self, instead of a heroic spirit or messenger.

This is the same for Luvezfol's case (the wyvern god and now Powvina's pet), with a literal portion of himself being used for that rock dragon whatever's power-up.
So Yupeon getting hurt didn't hurt Alda in exchange because they're independent of each other.
Not sure if heroic spirits or messengers count as damaging their patron god, though.

He actually answered in a comment to スライム asking about Alda being hurt by the dungeon's destruction, to which he responds:
立場上入院(静養)はできませんが、ユペオン以上の重症だと思われます。
(He can't rest due to his position, but I believe the damage will have surpassed Yupeon's.)

Last edited by sasuke706; 2017-07-22 at 21:02.
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Old 2017-07-22, 21:14   Link #412
bludvein
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sasuke706 View Post
I think you have it backwards. Alda would be hurt because the dungeon was made by his divinity/goodhood and thus connected to it, where Curatos was his own independent god and his loss itself is more damaging mentally and organizationally.
Yupeon being hurt would be because the spirit in Ice Age was literally a portion of him(her?)self, instead of a heroic spirit or messenger.

This is the same for Luvezfol's case (the wyvern god and now Powvina's pet), with a literal portion of himself being used for that rock dragon whatever's power-up.
So Yupeon getting hurt didn't hurt Alda in exchange because they're independent of each other.
Not sure if heroic spirits or messengers count as damaging their patron god, though.

He actually answered in a comment to スライム asking about Alda being hurt by the dungeon's destruction, to which he responds:
立場上入院(静養)はできませんが、ユペオン以上の重症だと思われます。
(He can't rest due to his position, but I believe the damage will have surpassed Yupeon's.)
Curatos was not independent, but a dependent god made by Alda out of his own spirit/magical power. This was covered in the character introductions and is why Curatos and Niltak(sp?) were hurt when Alda's judgement on Vida was crushed.

Yupeon getting hurt wouldn't affect Alda because she's not his subordinate technically, but Peria's. Whether it hurt Peria we don't know, but there's a big difference between being destroyed and hurt. In this case it's likely Yupeon took all the damage and buffered it from going further up the chain.

Last edited by bludvein; 2017-07-22 at 22:26.
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Old 2017-07-23, 01:15   Link #413
sasuke706
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bludvein View Post
Curatos was not independent, but a dependent god made by Alda out of his own spirit/magical power. This was covered in the character introductions and is why Curatos and Niltak(sp?) were hurt when Alda's judgement on Vida was crushed.

Yupeon getting hurt wouldn't affect Alda because she's not his subordinate technically, but Peria's. Whether it hurt Peria we don't know, but there's a big difference between being destroyed and hurt. In this case it's likely Yupeon took all the damage and buffered it from going further up the chain.
You mean the line (大神達は自らに仕える従属神、御使いを自らの力で作りだし) from chapter 220? That's actually kind of questionable. We already know he can take souls and make them into heroic spirits or subordinate gods (何人もの英雄や偉人がそうして神々の従属神や眷属として迎え入れられ), but that's not to say Curatos was any different. We already know Rodocorte existed on Lambda from the time all the current gods were born, and that he helped them make humans, elves and dwarves. So he could have also provided Curatos' soul to even make him into an subordinate god, or Alda would likely have had to cut off a portion of himself and it somehow gained its own sentience that differs it from a gods' partition in some way. Since I'm pretty sure Alda can't make a soul from nothing; that's completely outside his jurisdiction.
However, that also means that the majority of gods under him would apply under the same rules as Curatos, as all the current ones save for the few remaining borrowed servant gods were all turned into those gods by him. That means Fitun who's basically done nothing but lie to Alda and Nineroad's face and who's borderline an evil god already, as well as the former hero Farmoun (ファーマウン) was turned into a god by Alda and not Zantark since when Zantark had fused with an evil god, Farmoun was still human and fought against him (alluded in 181).
Going by the amount of freedom these gods exhibit, I doubt they have any strong link with Alda. Particularly where they know Farmoun has betrayed them and have done nothing about it.

About Curatos being hurt in chapter 201. All Alda said was to check their status and their messengers said they took some slight damage, right?
The reason Alda said to check their status because Vida was sealed by various artifacts besides just his stakes, presumably by just Bellwood, Curatos, and Niltak since Alda wanted to specifically check on them and no other god was alluded to having seals on Vida. So they got hurt for the same reason Alda got hurt, not because he got hurt. Also meaning that Van indirectly hurt Bellwood during the process.
(ヴィダにはアルダの神威である杭の他に、ベルウッドに授けたアーティファクトが突きたてられている。その中にはアルダだけでは無く、『記録の神』キュラトスや『断罪の神』ニルタークが創り上げた物が含まれていた。)
Hence the having artifacts made from them getting destroyed would lead to them being damaged

So basically there's still no actual evidence toward subordinate gods or heroic spirits being destroyed leading to the patron god being damaged as well.
However, partition spirits and artifacts made with their divinity do reflect damage as these are actively always powered and monitored by the gods in question.
While I'm at it, when Vandalieu was still breaking souls, I believe Kanata who had Rodocorte blessings or whatnot didn't reflect any damage back to Rodocorte, as he simply just recollected the fragments.

Edgar's heroic spirit apparently was under Niltak and he got severely damaged, and Heinz's heroic spirit Joshua (who we never got to learn what god he was under) got eaten entirely, so it's possible that will get brought up next time Alda shows up on screen.

Looking into it though, Niltak had two messengers destroyed by Van (during the Elwin the whip elf fight), but it was noted that they were merely made up of mana and had no ego. It was also noted by Fitun in 186 that he looked completely fine on top of it, so he likely took no noteworthy damage if any from them being eaten along with his blessing that Elwin had.

There haven't been all that many cases to go by though, really. The Demon Lord is really only alluded to at best and we very rarely get anything concrete about the guy, and Van hasn't actually fought with Alda or his forces outside of this encounter.
Every evil god he's fought has either been the evil god itself, or partitions that he's shot down mid-advent.

tl;dr words words words

Edit: Actually there's no way Alda's subordinate gods would get hurt along with him. Didn't Vida's side of gods convince Van to limit the amount of gods he eats?
This reason being the world kind of needs gods to govern it and losing them all would be an issue.
If killing Alda—which is basically guaranteed at this point—would kill ALL his subordinate gods or severely damage them, they probably would've convinced him to not do that.
On top of it, that means that the gods Alda borrowed from the great gods destroyed by the Demon Lord wouldn't exist; they'd be gone along with their patron god.
Including Taros and Diana who were twins made by Zeno the giant god during the age of the gods.

Alda might notice or feel if a heroic spirit or servant god gets eaten, but I doubt it's too noticeable and harming Alda shouldn't physically harm anyone under him.

Last edited by sasuke706; 2017-07-23 at 02:45.
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Old 2017-07-23, 04:01   Link #414
cabman11
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The line between his two moms are going to get so blurred that the two of them will be almost indistinguishable from each other soon
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Old 2017-07-23, 09:45   Link #415
bludvein
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Someone in the Japanese comments brought up a good job name. Who wants to bet Ouroboros shows up on his next job list? He ate his own divided soul in order to restore himself, and it fits in well with his powers. Who knows how long it would take to actually pick the job though.

Van has in some ways already surpassed the demon king, in sheer inability to die if nothing else. Even dividing his soul and sealing the pieces separately probably wouldn't count for much when he can still keep consciousness with those pieces and fight any sealing.

EDIT:

Btw sasuke, this is one of the author's replies.

Quote:
ヨシュアは英霊ですが、人間のヨシュアが死後に英霊に昇華されたものなので、アルダに直接のダメージは入っ ていません。ダメージが入るのは、神が自分の力で創った御使いや分霊になります。
ヨシュアの魂を喰ってヴァンダルーが直接えたスキルや能力値はありません。英霊は神では無いので……ただ損 傷した魂を治すための栄養にはなりました。
It basically says that damage enters if the subordinate is one made with his own power rather than an angel/subordinate raised from heroes. Curatos and Nilthak are more like separations of Alda's spirit like Bander is for Vandal, so the damage from his destruction is definitely significant.

Last edited by bludvein; 2017-07-23 at 09:59.
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Old 2017-07-23, 10:50   Link #416
Breimn
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Now that he ate Curatos this should even improve his clones s abilities and fighting power.
And maybe he can even eat memories from others.
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Old 2017-07-23, 15:29   Link #417
sasuke706
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^Yeah, their individual memory might improve.
It's kind of hard to say since they may still not have the brainpower to process memories even if they have them.
Hence where the demon lord brain thing comes in, if it does at all.

Eating memories, huh. I doubt it would be too useful, since he's already at a state where when he eats a god, he -might- get a random skill and some stats.
Adding random memories to the RNG table might not actually be all that helpful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bludvein View Post
Someone in the Japanese comments brought up a good job name. Who wants to bet Ouroboros shows up on his next job list? He ate his own divided soul in order to restore himself, and it fits in well with his powers. Who knows how long it would take to actually pick the job though.

Van has in some ways already surpassed the demon king, in sheer inability to die if nothing else. Even dividing his soul and sealing the pieces separately probably wouldn't count for much when he can still keep consciousness with those pieces and fight any sealing.

It basically says that damage enters if the subordinate is one made with his own power rather than an angel/subordinate raised from heroes. Curatos and Nilthak are more like separations of Alda's spirit like Bander is for Vandal, so the damage from his destruction is definitely significant.
Think he'll get Jörmungandr at some point too? Fitun can be his Thor, he's already a 'huge monster', and poison is fun. Plus the dragon god seems to want to boink.

The Demon Lord was an avatar of destruction whereas Van is an avatar death.
Van might never be as purely powerful as the demon lord was, but he already exceeds his ability to not die and has the "abyss" skill that he wanted.
Ironically, the demon lord knowing about the abyss skill means he likely encountered it and killed the god or being that had it.
Otherwise they share a lot of similarities. Van's soul fragments can be sentient on their own, but the demon lord's body parts also grew a variety of their own instinctual ego as well.
Physical versus spiritual kind of thing the two have going on.

But there's still no confirmation for how Curatos and Nilthak were made. They're treated as accessories to Alda and have no religion dedicated around them, but that's actually probably the case for most god subordinate gods.
Like in the quote itself it specifically says messengers and partitions made from their own power, which are both technically 100% the god and would identify as being such. He didn't actually say subordinate god.
I mentioned above that Nilthak had two messengers that were destroyed by Van but they had no ego as they were made purely of just his power; partitions are literally a portion of the god themself cut off and have the same god's ego.

But Curatos and Nilthak have their own egos. Not only that, they're higher beings to partitions and are gods with their own abilities that are unrelated to Alda entirely.
There's still nowhere that said Alda took damage from Curatos being eaten, and that Curatos was made in a specific way, right? So I'm not saying he can't be a partition of Alda that grew its own ego, I just find it unlikely.
We don't even know if Curatos was one of the gods made during his birth and if that even matters at all; all we know is he was around before the demon lord starting destroying everything.

In short, the quote is only leading to believe that damage doesn't reflect on each other, but I still haven't seen anything to convince me one way or another yet.
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Old 2017-07-25, 10:38   Link #418
Areswarlord
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hey was Zakkart the first Vampire?
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Old 2017-07-25, 11:57   Link #419
bludvein
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hey was Zakkart the first Vampire?
You could say he was the origin, but he wasn't a vampire himself. Details are kind of sketchy, but it seems he was turned into a life-dead by Vida after he died and his body used in magical rituals to create some of the new races(including vampires). The original vampires were chosen from heroes during the latter part of the war against the demon king and directly turned into vampires, rather than born that way.
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Old 2017-07-25, 16:41   Link #420
sasuke706
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As far as I know, it went: Vida got it on with Zackart's (undead) corpse → Vida had twins, one was vampire progenitor and one was the first ghoul → progenitor went on to make 100 purebreeds.
The author's also been like deliberately avoiding what happened with said race progenitors, too. Hell, he hasn't even said if they're male or female, just that the vampire one was the older of the twins.
Edit: Actually, looking into a little, apparently it was a he and he got slain by Bellwood, according to chapter 28. Except every chapter he refers to this person as either an 'older brother or sister' to the ghoul progenitor 'little sister or brother'.
Meaning the ghoul founder was probably female?

Presumably a bunch died or got sealed away in the Alda vs Vida war, but we get to see a few including Dalcia.
And probably Vandalieu. No one considers him a dhampir anymore, and Tiamat seems to think that kids with him will also start a brand new race.
The funny part is she's probably not even wrong. Hell, he's already somehow become a male dhampir (goddess).

Last edited by sasuke706; 2017-07-25 at 16:55.
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