[Manga] Chapter 423 Discussion

[tatami]

Originally Posted by kikko_s

We haven't seen exactly how, but Senju Hashimara beat Uchiha Madara. So there is a way to beat a really skillful sharingan user without having to have sharingan itself.

he was on par with sharingan user(best of them) , gai is able to fight against the sharingan , naruto kakashi chiyoba and sakura were able to kill itachi clone who uses regular sharingan, so yes without a sharingan a nin can overcome a sharingan

[ritalman]

It'd be funny if Kakashi could use his MS to transport the nail (and its momentum) in a not-so-different dimension, right in front of Pein's eye.

No more Rinnegan for you sir.

[tatami]

Originally Posted by ritalman

It'd be funny if Kakashi could use his MS to transport the nail (and its momentum) in a not-so-different dimension, right in front of Pein's eye.

No more Rinnegan for you sir.

he had to hit 10 eyes in a row if he wants to stop rinnegan and it will only work for the moment until pain got a new 6pack body from 7/11

[minato uzumaki]

maybe this is just a genjutsu of kakashi haha
who knows??/ if ninjutsu and taijutsu wont work on pein bevause of his gravity control illusion cant be repel by gravity hehhe

[tatami]

Originally Posted by minato uzumaki

maybe this is just a genjutsu of kakashi haha
who knows??/ if ninjutsu and taijutsu wont work on pein bevause of his gravity control illusion cant be repel by gravity hehhe

thats what I hope for kakashi making god pain dumb once more with a genjutsu trick...

[AuroraFlash]

I have another theory. Maybe Kakashi gains the upper hand and really knocks out Deva Pain and Pain gets to know that Naruto is nowhere around. Pain retreats.
The new Deva Pain body will be Jiraiya and Naruto will have to fight this one - far more tragic and emotional.

[tatami]

Originally Posted by AuroraFlash

I have another theory. Maybe Kakashi gains the upper hand and really knocks out Deva Pain and Pain gets to know that Naruto is nowhere around. Pain retreats.
The new Deva Pain body will be Jiraiya and Naruto will have to fight this one - far more tragic and emotional.

jman is dead , and gone...please let him rest in peace and j man doesnt have an extraordinary power such as pain uses so him using jman is a little absurd...I mean one soul taker one summoner one absorber and so...jman is nothing like that and he misses an arm

[james0246]

Originally Posted by AuroraFlash

I have another theory. Maybe Kakashi gains the upper hand and really knocks out Deva Pain and Pain gets to know that Naruto is nowhere around. Pain retreats.
The new Deva Pain body will be Jiraiya and Naruto will have to fight this one - far more tragic and emotional.

Also a little silly and a mite bit pointless . Pain has to do something important, or else he/they are not a reliable threat, and consequently they can be ignored (by both Naruto and the audience). If Pain can defeat the No. 1 Shinobi from Konoha (Jiraiya), but fails to defeat the No. 3 (assuming that Kakashi is No. 3 behind Tsunade and Jiraiya (I guess that makes Kakashi No. 2 actually )), then there is no point in waiting for or even watching Pain vs. Naruto fight.

No, Pain is going to defeat Kakashi, and leave Kakashi a broken man, either without a Sharingan or maybe losing an arm or leg (or they can take the cliche coma route, and have Kakashi be knocked out for a time only to imagine talking to Obito which forces him to wake up and fight even harder for his dreams...or some such Shounen nonsense ).

As for Jiraiya coming back as a Pain body...well besides a shock value moment, the bodies all seem to carry the same abilities from body to body (i.e. Summoner Pain will always summon, etc), so it is not like the Jiraiya/Pain body will have any of Jiraiya's powers, so there is no real reason to fear the 'new' body, save for the 1-2 chapter long emotional moment that honestly is unneeded considering how often Naruto works up his own emotions without the need for external stimuli . Besides all of that, Jiraiya sank to Davy Jones Locker, so I doubt even a body remains now, what with all the fish and such eating Jiraiya's remains.

[Cub-Sama]

Originally Posted by james0246

As for Jiraiya coming back as a Pain body...well besides a shock value moment, the bodies all seem to carry the same abilities from body to body (i.e. Summoner Pain will always summon, etc), so it is not like the Jiraiya/Pain body will have any of Jiraiya's powers, so there is no real reason to fear the 'new' body, save for the 1-2 chapter long emotional moment that honestly is unneeded considering how often Naruto works up his own emotions without the need for external stimuli . Besides all of that, Jiraiya sank to Davy Jones Locker, so I doubt even a body remains now, what with all the fish and such eating Jiraiya's remains.

I disagree I still think that they have abilities that they are not showing us, like right now Fukusaku says you should figure out what ability they use, but it might just be them tricking them and then Pain uses maybe a fire jutsu or a water jutsu. Or maybe using unique elemental jutsus to show off the other powers of the rinnegan cos so far we havent seen the whole elemental side of things.

[james0246]

Originally Posted by Cub-Sama

I disagree I still think that they have abilities that they are not showing us, like right now Fukusaku says you should figure out what ability they use, but it might just be them tricking them and then Pain uses maybe a fire jutsu or a water jutsu. Or maybe using unique elemental jutsus to show off the other powers of the rinnegan cos so far we havent seen the whole elemental side of things.

Well the main Nagato/Original Body could have all the elemental affinities, and these Pain bodies simply have peripheral abilities built into them (unless you think Rocket-Launcher Pain was born that way ). Besides simple non-elemental abilities, I do not really expect Pain to use elemental attacks, though I do expect Nagato, if he can still fight, to be able to use all of the elements (then again, Deva-Pain might be different).

That being said, considering how easy it was to replace Fuuma Pain with the new female non-Fuuma body, I seriously doubt that any of the Pain bodies have their own unique abilties, rather they are simply 'puppets' with built in abilities that are standard from one model to the next (i.e. Rocket-Launcher Pain will always be Rocket-Launcher Pain, even if the body holding the rockets changes). The only body that might be different is the Yahiko-Deva-Pain body.

[Cub-Sama]

Originally Posted by james0246

Well the main Nagato/Original Body could have all the elemental affinities, and these Pain bodies simply have peripheral abilities built into them (unless you think Rocket-Launcher Pain was born that way ). Besides simple non-elemental abilities, I do not really expect Pain to use elemental attacks, though I do expect Nagato, if he can still fight, to be able to use all of the elements (then again, Deva-Pain might be different).

That being said, considering how easy it was to replace Fuuma Pain with the new female non-Fuuma body, I seriously doubt that any of the Pain bodies have their own unique abilties, rather they are simply 'puppets' with built in abilities that are standard from one model to the next (i.e. Rocket-Launcher Pain will always be Rocket-Launcher Pain, even if the body holding the rockets changes). The only body that might be different is the Yahiko-Deva-Pain body.

I was hoping it would not just be building in abilities to the body but that the body would retain it's usual jutsus but just choose to use the Rin'negan abilities due to the fact that is what the chakra receivers are telling the body what to do.

[AuroraFlash]

It still makes sense for Jiraiya to appear as one of Pain's bodies.
First of all, Deidara got his arms back on, he even lost two arms, not just one. In addition, we actually don't know how how the other people looked before being taken over by Pain. Jiraiya was brabbling something strange before he was dead, wasn't he? And besides, "J-man" also was Nagato's teacher - and Yahiko's - and Konan's ... maybe his body has some kind of importance, even in an ironical way.

Also, you can get Naruto out of control by showing Jiraiya's enslaved body to him and make him actually fight him as one of Pain's realms...

Why not?

[tatami]

Originally Posted by AuroraFlash

It still makes sense for Jiraiya to appear as one of Pain's bodies.
First of all, Deidara got his arms back on, he even lost two arms, not just one. In addition, we actually don't know how how the other people looked before being taken over by Pain. Jiraiya was brabbling something strange before he was dead, wasn't he? And besides, "J-man" also was Nagato's teacher - and Yahiko's - and Konan's ... maybe his body has some kind of importance, even in an ironical way.

Also, you can get Naruto out of control by showing Jiraiya's enslaved body to him and make him actually fight him as one of Pain's realms...

Why not?

deidei should thank to kakuzu yes?and jmans arm is blown away most probably...

[nydude20]

didn't it say somewhere that the person who has the rin'negan can use any justu?

[tatami]

Originally Posted by nydude20

didn't it say somewhere that the person who has the rin'negan can use any justu?

it was said that the original rinnegan user was the father of all ninjutsu or something like that

[james0246]

Originally Posted by nydude20

didn't it say somewhere that the person who has the rin'negan can use any justu?

A rinnegan user seemingly has an affinity for all elements, so they can learn elemental Ninjutsu without the extra training that a regular Shinobi must undergo in order to learn a non-affinity element. That does not mean that they can learn any/all Ninjutsu (I doubt we will see Pain using Amaterasu anytime soon), nor does it mean that the rinnegan could necessarily combine elements (as some people have predicted). The rinnegan simply makes it easier to learn elemental Ninjutsu.

[Gamma_Sennin]

Originally Posted by james0246

Also a little silly and a mite bit pointless . Pain has to do something important, or else he/they are not a reliable threat, and consequently they can be ignored (by both Naruto and the audience). If Pain can defeat the No. 1 Shinobi from Konoha (Jiraiya), but fails to defeat the No. 3 (assuming that Kakashi is No. 3 behind Tsunade and Jiraiya (I guess that makes Kakashi No. 2 actually )), then there is no point in waiting for or even watching Pain vs. Naruto fight.

He is only fighting one body... even though its arguably the strongest of them all.. J_man fought on par with 6 (only to lose coz of his lack of knowledge of pains power/secret)... fair to say kakashi is greater than 1/6th of J_man... also.. not to sound like a kakashi fan boy here.. but the full capabilities of his ms... are yet to be shown... I agree kakashi will NOT! defeat pain... but thats not saying he wont do some major damage to deva... I would at least like to see him use the other bodies to overpower kakashi.. maybe kakashi surprises him with ms.. then pain becoming impatient calls the remaining realms to his side to defeat kakashi.. but who knows.. maybe the power/experience/skill gap was that great between jiraiya and kakashi... and yea it makes sense that he will leave... as hes taking unnecessary damage and naruto isnt in the village...

Originally Posted by AuroraFlash

It still makes sense for Jiraiya to appear as one of Pain's bodies.
First of all, Deidara got his arms back on, he even lost two arms, not just one. In addition, we actually don't know how how the other people looked before being taken over by Pain. Jiraiya was brabbling something strange before he was dead, wasn't he? And besides, "J-man" also was Nagato's teacher - and Yahiko's - and Konan's ... maybe his body has some kind of importance, even in an ironical way.

Also, you can get Naruto out of control by showing Jiraiya's enslaved body to him and make him actually fight him as one of Pain's realms...

Why not?

Well we do know there faces... but yea not the new summon chick...

I was actually reading the pain/jiriaya encounter again out of boredom... and it was one of the more entertaining arcs to read.. with secrets/revelations/fights etc... but its so frustrating how slowly things have developed since then... Jiraiya forcing himself back to life to reveal naruto as the destined child... and "almost" reveal pains identity... and about 90 chapters later... we know a little bit more.. he has chakra receivers... we see a few more realms abilities.. oh dont forget the real one isnt there... I just want to know more dammit lol vent over.. goes back to work

[tatami]

he is(was) using 2 bodies and kicking kakashis a$$ ...

[ragnos007]

Originally Posted by james0246

Well the main Nagato/Original Body could have all the elemental affinities, and these Pain bodies simply have peripheral abilities built into them (unless you think Rocket-Launcher Pain was born that way ). Besides simple non-elemental abilities, I do not really expect Pain to use elemental attacks, though I do expect Nagato, if he can still fight, to be able to use all of the elements (then again, Deva-Pain might be different).

That being said, considering how easy it was to replace Fuuma Pain with the new female non-Fuuma body, I seriously doubt that any of the Pain bodies have their own unique abilties, rather they are simply 'puppets' with built in abilities that are standard from one model to the next (i.e. Rocket-Launcher Pain will always be Rocket-Launcher Pain, even if the body holding the rockets changes). The only body that might be different is the Yahiko-Deva-Pain body.

I think there is something more to god pain.... His only power can't just be controlling the gravity and repulsion forces of his centre because remember when J MAN entered Hidden Rain Pain had that Sensor rain up that told him if there was an intruder...
Oh and remember when God Pain used an eye ability that saw Konohas sensor barrier
And the first Summon Pain saw the barrier that J-MAN put up (this is possibly speculation that he saw it but it makes more sense now)

[james0246]

Originally Posted by tatami

he is(was) using 2 bodies and kicking kakashis a$$ ...

Hell, Pain is kicking ass with one body...he just needs to continue to kick ass (Tsunade, your next ).

(I am very bi-polar concerning Pain )