2009-08-15, 09:33 | Link #1921 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Earth
|
But which part of "running away" do you refer to? From your post, you suggested the funeral scene and the scene where she goes away with Brera
Now, the funeral scene has nothing to do with fight against Vajra...she refuses to sing to ppl but in the last (or the same episode) she sings to control Vajra In the scene where she goes with Brera...she goes to search possible peace deal... Because in my opinion, when you say Run away, you seem to be not specific enough, "run away" means many thing, and when you say, "she offered herself to help against the Vajra... and after that she ran away" ppl can imagine she runs away because she doesn't want to die and run for her life!!! That's why I ask you which scene you are referring to..from your post, you gave me the funeral scene and the departure to Vajra's planet scene..now I reply that in both scene, she doesn't show that she rejects her responsibility...in funeral scene, while she refuses to sing to ppl, that doesn't mean she refuses to use her power to stop Vajra as we saw she did it in previous episode...in the departure scene, she goes away to look for peace between both sides...so she is not "running away" from responsibility, which you seem to suggest when you say "she offered herself to help against the Vajra... and after that she ran away" ...you can question her "native way of doing things", that's fine, because I've seen other posters say that But simply use the term "Run away" without further explanation gives others wrong impression in my own opinion
__________________
|
2009-08-15, 09:45 | Link #1922 |
A blast from the past
Artist
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Fortaleza-CE, Brazil
Age: 46
|
Argue over semantics all you want, but it still doesn't change the fact that she did, in fact, flee her assumed responsibilities. Not acknowledging these instances is the biggest flaw of the series, and the character, in my opinion.
__________________
|
2009-08-15, 10:04 | Link #1923 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Earth
|
No I am not arguing over semantics...in both scenes that magnuskn mentioned, I explain that running away from responsibility (if that's what magnuskn is referring to) is not the case in both scenes..one can question her away of doing, like lack of planning etc...but running away from responsibility is not reason in both scenes
Simply say "run away" is misleading in anyway you look at it. Well, macross frontier thought she "ran away" to side with Vajra!!..so it's important to explain it further...especially some readers in here may want to check these posts before deciding to watch the series, then they may really think Ranka "runs away" because she doesn't want to die XD
__________________
|
2009-08-15, 10:13 | Link #1924 | |
Nyaa~
Join Date: Mar 2009
Age: 35
|
Quote:
|
|
2009-08-15, 10:28 | Link #1925 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Earth
|
lol, I feel like I got lured into a trap, the more I talk, the more mistake I will make (well I am not a lawyer XD) and I sense vultures near by
Anyway, I will have to see whether magnuskn agrees that Ranka goes to find possible peace deal between human and vajra a) if magnuskn thinks Ranka goes to search for peace, then the sentence should be like: "she offered herself to help against the Vajra... and after that she natively goes away to search for peace, forgetting her first and foremost responsibility is to protect the frontier!!" b) if magnuskn thinks Ranka simply wants to take Ai-kun back to its home planet, then the sentence should be like: "she offered herself to help against the Vajra... and after that she natively decides that taking Ai-kun back to its home planet is more important than to protect the frontier!! " I probably wouldn't have responded if magnuskn replied something similar to the above because both a) and b) are old topics..but saying "run away" all of sudden gives me an impression that Ranka runs away for her life, side with Vajra etc...it gives more bad reputation to Ranka, and she has enough of those already...that's why I wanna make it clearer, especially to readers that never watch the series Edit: just to complete this essay....if I want to respond, to counter point a) I would argue which way (search for peace or fight against the bug) is more important, and she never runs away from her responsibility To counter point b) I would argue that simply that is not the case, Ranka goes out (or runs away) to search for peace!!"
__________________
|
2009-08-15, 10:29 | Link #1926 |
A blast from the past
Artist
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Fortaleza-CE, Brazil
Age: 46
|
I find the way she ran away from singing to the survivors a very clear example of fleeing responsibilities - that she accepted beforehand. You don't?
Sure, you can pull the card of "why doesn't anyone care about how she feels" reasoning, but... I don't really care about her feelings at that point. She hurt many people that day, who were only expecting a glimmer of hope from her songs. Also, by leaving Frontier with Brera, she also skirted her assumed role. Something that Sheryl had to lend a hand with later on, even at the cost of her own life, I might add.
__________________
|
2009-08-15, 10:29 | Link #1927 | ||||
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
|
Please drop any discussion of reputation. If you receive anything extremely malicious, PM a moderator instead.
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
It's mostly a combination of confusion and naivete. Ranka felt a connection with the Vajra that no-one else did, and that no-one else seemed interested in exploring. She thought that she might be able to communicate with them somehow and settle matters without resorting to killing all of them.
__________________
|
||||
2009-08-15, 10:44 | Link #1928 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Earth
|
Quote:
And about leaving with Brera, I have continuously used the card "Ranka intends to talk, if there is a deal, good, if not, Brera can take her home" "Grace's interfere is out of Ranka's plan" "reaching peace deal between human and vajra is more important, especially if Ranka plans to go back and defend if the peace deal doesn't go through" etc to suggest that she is not backing away from her duty
__________________
|
|
2009-08-15, 11:46 | Link #1929 |
A blast from the past
Artist
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Fortaleza-CE, Brazil
Age: 46
|
Fine. Next time an idol (be it in real life or not) on the level that Ranka was in the series ("The Songstress of Hope", right?) skirts on her beneficent shows or appearances, you can always say that she didn't flee her responsibilities or whatever, because, later on (or sometime before), she actually does show up for something... I'm really through with this discussion, anyway. Too much grief for too few rewards, I think.
Let's just agree on this: you have your opinion and I have mine. That way, we both can move on, right? I mean, it's been pretty obvious for quite some time that neither you nor I (or many others) will change our positions - but we always come back to the same points, anyway. Not me, not anymore. Hasta la vista, baby.
__________________
|
2009-08-15, 11:52 | Link #1930 | |
Senior Member
Graphic Designer
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Age: 31
|
Quote:
__________________
|
|
2009-08-15, 12:25 | Link #1931 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
|
Quote:
1. It's less an attempt to stop the Vajra than it is an attempt to communicate with them in some way other than through violence. She doesn't really think in terms of beating them. 2. It's an overstatement to think of Ranka's actions in terms of consciously deciding to do anything grand with the Vajra. Instead, her actions are on the instinct level - she simply felt that she had to do something; and this was what she could come up with. It's a very fitting complement to her character as she's simply too innocent and inexperienced to be able to think much of the bigger picture.
__________________
|
|
2009-08-15, 14:27 | Link #1932 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Earth
|
Quote:
And it's true that we will never convince each other. We also always say that we don't want to discuss the same topic again but we always end up doing the opposite XD. Glad to know that you move on, until the next time when we discuss the same topic all over again XD
__________________
|
|
2009-08-15, 16:13 | Link #1933 | |
Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
|
Quote:
|
|
2009-08-15, 18:03 | Link #1934 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Age: 48
|
Quote:
To try to put it into a cogent argument: Ranka *partly* did leave Frontier to pursue a vague idea that she could communicate with the Vajra and therefore bring about peace between them and humanity. But she *partly* also ran away, because she could not deal with Alto not being in love with her like she wanted him to be, and that she was being used by Leon ( and with Altos consent ) as a weapon against the Vajra. Of course there are more complications in the fact that Ranka shortly before that moment had declared that she was okay with her song being used against the Vajra, therefore taking on a definite responsibility for the safety of the citizens of Frontier. So, conciously or not, she definitely did run away from that self-assumed responsibility ( kinda like Sarah Palin resigned as the governor of Alaska I kid, I kid.. not even I would sink so low as to compare Ranka to Sarah Palin. ) . A lot of people, me included, do have a problem with that, because assuming the responsibility for the very lives of a few million people should carry along with it a certain gravity and Ranka did not seem to grasp that concept very well, instead seeming ( to me ) to make it all about Alto. Her change from "I sing for the people of Frontier" to "I sing for Alto, and Alto alone! Why canīt he hear me?!?" was definitely a change for the worse in terms of her character development.
__________________
|
|
2009-08-15, 18:14 | Link #1935 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Earth
|
Thanks for making it clearer....I was simply having a problem with that phrase "she offered herself to help against the Vajra... and after that she ran away" I just thought it was too simplistic, and it makes Ranka seems like those villains (you know, those typical bad guys who run away when bad situation happens) and we all know Ranka is not like that
once again, thank you for clearing it up
__________________
|
2009-08-15, 18:19 | Link #1936 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Age: 48
|
Quote:
__________________
|
|
2009-08-15, 20:38 | Link #1937 | |
Alto x Ranka :)
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: New York City
|
Quote:
Ranka's idea to bring Ai-kun back and creating peace with the Vajra coincide with each other because it happened in that instant. If it wasn't for the molting, I believe that Ranka would not have gone to the Vajra home world. All of this stems back to Ai-kun and Ranka's realization of what he actually was, it's actually deeper than "Alto doesn't love me so I'm going to use Brera and Ai-kun as an excuse to run away from this pain." We got no hint of Ranka wanting to do this until she impulsively decided to bring Ai-kun back and try to create peace with the Vajra. I'm not excusing Ranka in anyway for leaving Frontier but I certainly don't blame her for making that decision considering her circumstances.
__________________
Last edited by DeX-kun; 2009-08-15 at 21:08. |
|
2009-08-15, 20:38 | Link #1938 | |
Senior Member
Graphic Designer
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Age: 31
|
Quote:
btw stop justifying Sheryl here this is a Ranka thread.
__________________
|
|
2009-08-15, 20:51 | Link #1939 |
A blast from the past
Artist
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Fortaleza-CE, Brazil
Age: 46
|
There's a very easy way for that to happen: don't feed/start discussions about Sheryl here, if you're uncomfortable with it. I also find it unbecoming, since it almost implies there cannot be a discussion of one character without the other.
__________________
|
2009-08-16, 03:52 | Link #1940 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Age: 48
|
Quote:
In any case, if you think that her motivations were that simple and pure, Iīll have to disagree with you. As I see it, the situation with Alto and her being used by the government got intolerable to her, so those things which I explained in detail in my last post were also deciding factors why she left. Of course this is my opinion, so feel free to disagree. Quote:
Where exactly did I "justify Sheryl"? Also, the characters are linked more than most, so comparisons are a part of their character discussion. Not always necessary, but often enough applicable.
__________________
|
||
Thread Tools | |
|
|