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Old 2013-08-10, 10:44   Link #561
Sunder the Gold
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tusjecht View Post
if we're talking about crafting here, then I imagine that an avatar with 'dissembly' abilities would prove extremely useful to a potential crafter. While I haven't seem much to suggest that there are materials, ores, and such for crafting, Enhanced Armaments are rather easy to come by by any of the five methods to gain EAs: Obtaining in Card form, Buying from Shops, PK-ing a player, Direct Connection, and Level-up bonuses. Breaking down an EA to get its elements, then crafting an entirely new EA from those, would be something I'd seriously consider if I became a crafter.
I don't think "becoming a crafter" would be possible without a device that enables crafting, as per Red Rider's crafting device. And we have no idea what level he needed to be to get that, or what sort of trauma or avatar might allow such an option.


I do think the idea of such a device having the power to "recycle" an existing Enhanced Armament is cool. Though I think such a power would require devoting another Level Upgrade to the device on top of the Upgrade needed to get the crafting device in the first place.


As to the idea that Brain Burst might feature "crafting materials", I suggested that these things would ONLY appear to an avatar who had a "crafting device". That is, I don't think Brain Burst normally includes such things at all.

Rather than looking at it as "Enemies now drop mats", look at it as, "This crafting hammer now sometimes randomly generates a mat whenever you kill an Enemy". So it's a property of the crafting device rather than of the game as a whole.
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Old 2013-08-11, 05:43   Link #562
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
I only recall hearing that Grande's never been defeated except by Time Out.

Personally, I say that makes no sense. If he can be defeated by Time Out, then it's possible to hurt him. If it's possible to hurt him, then if you outnumber and harass him enough in the Unlimited Neutral Field, it should be just as possible to kill him as anyone else.

Perhaps it's meant to be implied that dueling him "fair and square" in the UNF is futile, but the UNF is not a dueling field. It's a field for "dirty tricks" and ruthless tactics, where you can bring friends to a fight and ambush someone when they're weak or unprepared.
I guess then that he is always prepared, like how the Kings in the show always seem capable of some hyperbole.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
Also look at it this way:

If they were the Vermillion, Chartruese, Burgundy and Puce Legions, no one would call them the Legions of Pure Color, because not one of those is a "pure" color.

If they were the Silver, Gold, and Aluminum Legions, people would call them the Metal Legions, or the Legions of Metal. Because all of those colors are metallic.

The phrase "Legions of Pure Color" simply refers to the fact that the color-names of each major legion is a pure color like White, Black, Blue, etc. It's just a summarization of all major legion names rather than a descriptor of major legion membership.


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Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
Yellow Radio has good reason to not trust mercenaries with this ambush.

Radio can threaten his legionaires with the Judgment Blow if they dared kill Scarlet Rain for themselves rather than leaving her to him, or if they ran to the other Kings to reveal how Yellow Radio had conspired against Scarlet Rain.

Mercenaries would still have to fear Radio's retaliation, but not having to worry about the Judgment Blow is a big deal.
I stand corrected. Yellow Legion it is!

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Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
I didn't mean to suggest otherwise. I think she should ALWAYS need to spend Burst Points to make new weapons, whether or not she needs or uses dropped materials.
Agreed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
The idea of making her crafting device a hammer that can be used as a weapon is interesting, especially in Brain Burst which is even MORE combat-oriented than Sword Art Online.

However, corpses don't last any longer in the Accelerated World than they do in Sword Art / Alfheim Online. They explode into pixels, or become Return Lights in the case of Burst Linkers in the Unlimited Neutral Field.

...Well, I assume Enemies burst. I don't think we've ever actually seen one die, yet.
Okay, hammer it is. Mallet, actually. And she needs to kill the Enemy with the hammer for the Enemy to have a chance of dropping a Crafting Material, like that Hunter game. :3

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Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
That's exactly what it means. Black Lotus and Blue Knight earned the titles of Legend-Slayer for managing to defeat legend-level Enemies on their own. Green Grandee was noted as reaching Level 9 by soloing entire dungeons.
Ah yes, the good old days of my Protection Pally... and Stratholme.



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Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
If he's tough enough, he might not bother with defending himself, but simply get up in an Enemy's face for a slugging match. If he hits an Enemy enough, he could kill it before it kills him. He's pretty big, so his punches probably hurt a bit.

There's also his Double Payback ability, whatever that is. And he might have gained an offensive Enhanced Armament that he pulls out whenever he's not tanking for a group.
Double Payback does sound like an Avenger ability, and if he uses reflective threat generation, that ability fits even more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tusjecht View Post
Enemies do burst into pixels; the Legendary Enemy Jörmungand did so after being torn into two halves from head to tail.

And if we're talking about crafting here, then I imagine that an avatar with 'dissembly' abilities would prove extremely useful to a potential crafter. While I haven't seem much to suggest that there are materials, ores, and such for crafting, Enhanced Armaments are rather easy to come by by any of the five methods to gain EAs: Obtaining in Card form, Buying from Shops, PK-ing a player, Direct Connection, and Level-up bonuses. Breaking down an EA to get its elements, then crafting an entirely new EA from those, would be something I'd seriously consider if I became a crafter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
I don't think "becoming a crafter" would be possible without a device that enables crafting, as per Red Rider's crafting device. And we have no idea what level he needed to be to get that, or what sort of trauma or avatar might allow such an option.


I do think the idea of such a device having the power to "recycle" an existing Enhanced Armament is cool. Though I think such a power would require devoting another Level Upgrade to the device on top of the Upgrade needed to get the crafting device in the first place.


As to the idea that Brain Burst might feature "crafting materials", I suggested that these things would ONLY appear to an avatar who had a "crafting device". That is, I don't think Brain Burst normally includes such things at all.

Rather than looking at it as "Enemies now drop mats", look at it as, "This crafting hammer now sometimes randomly generates a mat whenever you kill an Enemy". So it's a property of the crafting device rather than of the game as a whole.
Why am I thinking of Diablo 3... Magic crafting dust.

So taking it all together, Lisbeth is an Avatar, probably bluish, who crafts swords with her EA [Genesis Hammer]. She crafts by spending BBs and/or crafting materials, then hitting empty space with her hammer. To gather materials for special crafts, she has to:
1. Kill Enemy with the hammer
2. Acquire a drop or item --> smash it with hammer --> use item that drops out to reforge the EA into something stronger, or combine with other items to forge a new melee EA
3. Smash special pieces of terrain in the UNF and that may yield something useful
4. Occasionally, smashing a player with a blow that defeats him (doesn’t have to permakill him) may drop an item that is used for crafting an EA somewhat related to that player?


Okay, so Gold Cub walks into a shop and asks Oyster Smith to craft an EA for him, and he proceeds to break one of her EAs...
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Old 2013-08-11, 05:55   Link #563
HasuMasu
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Name: Red Ray (tentative)
Color: Red (tentative)
Legion: Black
Focus: Mobility, Range, Firepower
Appearance:

1. average human girl size
2. body suit
3. helmet (most of the face can be seen through)
Parametres:

1. fast, agile
2. no armor
3. only one offensive skill (long range beam Radial Burst)
4. Radial Burst fired only from left hand

I've been working on it for a long time, but this is the best I could iron out for now.
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Old 2013-08-11, 06:02   Link #564
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I wonder what happens if Lisbeth smashed Chrome Disaster and picked up the Orb of Destruction... She becomes a pink-haired yandere?

@Masuzu: Stock standard newbie. Its a good start.
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Old 2013-08-11, 06:42   Link #565
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Unrelated but you know I'm Box, right Meister?

Another one I was able to clear through, this time the pseudo-antagonist.

Name: Gold Rush
Color: Metal (Gold)
Legion: Metal
Focus: Fast, Strong, Tough, 'Close' range Charger Type
Appearance:

1. 7 feet tall
2. centaur
3. Pre-Industrial European Armour
Parametres:

1. very fast because of charge, but little to no agility
2. armour is thick, but legs are unarmoured
3. size gives good range despite mostly melee
4. lance in left hand for piercing and throwing
5. sword in right hand for slashing and guarding

Gold Rush, a former rising Avatar in the White Legion, took over what was the Red Legion's territory after Red Rider's suicide and the disbandment of Prominence.

Despite being King of the relatively new Metal Legion, he refuses to level up beyond 8.
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Old 2013-08-11, 07:15   Link #566
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Originally Posted by Masuzu View Post
Unrelated but you know I'm Box, right Meister?
...USODA!!

Ahem, well, I guess that means most of ISOC has revived...

Quote:
Name: Gold Rush
Color: Metal (Gold)
Legion: Metal
Focus: Fast, Strong, Tough, 'Close' range Charger Type
Appearance:

1. 7 feet tall
2. centaur
3. Pre-Industrial European Armour
Parametres:

1. very fast because of charge, but little to no agility
2. armour is thick, but legs are unarmoured
3. size gives good range despite mostly melee
4. lance in left hand for piercing and throwing
5. sword in right hand for slashing and guarding

Gold Rush, a former rising Avatar in the White Legion, took over what was the Red Legion's territory after Red Rider's suicide and the disbandment of Prominence.

Despite being King of the relatively new Metal Legion, he refuses to level up beyond 8.
Present Day Gold Cub: Tada no nisemono da.
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Old 2013-08-11, 07:38   Link #567
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I actually don't have a very clear grasp on Gold Cub's parametres despite following since page 1.

Though I remember you mentioning somewhere that the Avatar was born from greed? Or maybe it was desire.

Gold Rush was born from a personality that charges directly at all obstacles.
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Old 2013-08-11, 08:16   Link #568
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Originally Posted by MeisterBabylon View Post
And she needs to kill the Enemy with the hammer for the Enemy to have a chance of dropping a Crafting Material, like that Hunter game. :3
I wouldn't have gone that far, though I can see the wisdom in it. I was thinking that she wouldn't need to use the weapon at all, and her contribution would only need to be removing at least a single HP so the system recognizes her involvement.

But Enhanced Armaments are much bigger deals in Accel World than weapons are in other games, being far more rare and expensive.


Quote:
Okay, so Gold Cub walks into a shop and asks Oyster Smith to craft an EA for him, and he proceeds to break one of her EAs...
Is that just a similarity, or is Gold Cub supposed to be Kirito?

Also, wouldn't breaking an Enhanced Armament just reset it to an item card at worst? As with the Mystic Reins?



Anyway, I recently thought of a new ability, similar to the crafting device.

Instead of making new Enhanced Armaments, you make new Special Attacks. You can't sell these, of course.

It would be like the Original Sword Arts systems from New ALO, where players can design their own Sword Art attacks. Probably, the special attacks designed by this Burst Linker would need to be limited to work with a particular range of combat, or a particular class of weapon.

Perhaps the ability is embodied in an Enhanced Armament sword that offers you the chance to buy new Special Attacks which become unlocked after defeating certain enemies.

Of course, if this ability is within the sword, then the Burst Linker might be completely incapable of using these extra Special Attacks if he tried using the Impulse or the Infinity. Because you don't simply REPLACE weapons in Accel World; not when a weapon can represent so much of your avatar's invested potential.
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Old 2013-08-11, 10:00   Link #569
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Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
I wouldn't have gone that far, though I can see the wisdom in it. I was thinking that she wouldn't need to use the weapon at all, and her contribution would only need to be removing at least a single HP so the system recognizes her involvement.

But Enhanced Armaments are much bigger deals in Accel World than weapons are in other games, being far more rare and expensive.
I wanted the crafting to be somewhat tedious, to be worth the expense of the item that is produced, which was why I involved needed to use the hammer to smash the Enemy, so that when it fragments thereafter it leaves behind a bit of itself as preserved by the hammer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
Is that just a similarity, or is Gold Cub supposed to be Kirito?
No, he definitely is his own character. But I started my fic to also include scenes that harken back to SAO, just for fun. Of course how things turn out will still be decided by AW rules. Such as...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
Also, wouldn't breaking an Enhanced Armament just reset it to an item card at worst? As with the Mystic Reins?
...this. I actually never thought that far, but yes, the EA should revert to its inert form, Smith shriek about damaging the EA, and Cub remarking that he could just resummon it...

That would be an example of "That's from SAO!... and Accel World ensues." Like how Haruyuki spouts that famous line from SAO that sparks a similar misunderstanding. That's how I intended to have these little easter eggs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
Anyway, I recently thought of a new ability, similar to the crafting device.

Instead of making new Enhanced Armaments, you make new Special Attacks. You can't sell these, of course.

It would be like the Original Sword Arts systems from New ALO, where players can design their own Sword Art attacks. Probably, the special attacks designed by this Burst Linker would need to be limited to work with a particular range of combat, or a particular class of weapon.

Perhaps the ability is embodied in an Enhanced Armament sword that offers you the chance to buy new Special Attacks which become unlocked after defeating certain enemies.

Of course, if this ability is within the sword, then the Burst Linker might be completely incapable of using these extra Special Attacks if he tried using the Impulse or the Infinity. Because you don't simply REPLACE weapons in Accel World; not when a weapon can represent so much of your avatar's invested potential.
Its a nice idea, but its also awfully clunky. I don't see the economic benefit of this skill, but yes, it would be interesting for an avatar to be have a sword that trains new Special Attacks in them. An 'elucidator of attacks', or sorts. XD

The sword itself would be hot property as it can unlock additional skills in an avatar after using it in certain situations. The sword itself can then be traded off while the Avatar continues to improve the new special they've unlocked. This is further balanced by dividing points between the special attacks they have, ensuring that no one can have a bazillion maxed out specials.
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Old 2013-08-11, 11:32   Link #570
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That wasn't the idea.

The idea was that the avatar itself would have the power to buy new special attacks without leveling up, or that a special evolving weapon could be upgraded without leveling up.

I never considered the possibility of a sword that enables direct upgrades of the avatar itself. (Not that it's necessarily a bad idea.)
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Old 2013-08-11, 20:08   Link #571
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I actually don't have a very clear grasp on Gold Cub's parametres despite following since page 1.

Though I remember you mentioning somewhere that the Avatar was born from greed? Or maybe it was desire.

Gold Rush was born from a personality that charges directly at all obstacles.
Well... Neither do I at times. Though, when I write, I'm constantly thinking, what would Kirito do in this situation?

Yes, the avatar has desire, fear, grief, loss and the greed that comes from compensating for all that. But the kid still has a brain, so he doesn't openly show it like a card-carrying villain.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
That wasn't the idea.

The idea was that the avatar itself would have the power to buy new special attacks without leveling up, or that a special evolving weapon could be upgraded without leveling up.

I never considered the possibility of a sword that enables direct upgrades of the avatar itself. (Not that it's necessarily a bad idea.)
I see! That makes sense. Its a nice idea, just no plans for someone like that yet. I wonder what color would an avatar with that skill be?
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Old 2013-08-11, 20:19   Link #572
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Originally Posted by MeisterBabylon View Post
I wonder what color would an avatar with that skill be?
I could see Blue Knight having the inherent ability to spend Burst Points to create new "Sword Art" Special Attacks for himself.

Or if not him, then Graphite Edge.

At the same time, developing new super attacks for swords could also be accomplished through the Incarnate System, which both of those swordsmen would have mastered.


In the end, though, the idea may simply be too broken.

See, it lacks the limitations that Red Rider's device had. Rider could only hold a certain number of guns at once, for instance, and could lose them if they were knocked away or destroyed in a fight. But Special Attacks inside the avatar can be without number and cannot be so easily disarmed.

There is also no evidence that the game allows Burst Linkers to upgrade Enhanced Armaments without leveling up (otherwise Sky Raker would have done so for the Gale Thruster). Maybe Red Rider could improve existing weapons, or maybe he was forced to create a completely new one each time.
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Old 2013-08-12, 03:05   Link #573
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But they'd all be level 1 and the avatar only has so many points to upgrade them. Having lots of Specials will give him versatility, but a lot of them will have minimal combat power or saddled with long cooldowns, for example, because they are all level 1.
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Old 2013-08-12, 03:45   Link #574
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Didn't Black Lotus spend level up bonuses on getting more Killer Moves?
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Old 2013-08-12, 06:07   Link #575
Sunder the Gold
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Didn't Black Lotus spend level up bonuses on getting more Killer Moves?
But once she hit Level 9, she couldn't do that any more. An avatar that can ignore that limit can continue improving where Black Lotus stops.

You can't go to a Shop to buy new Special Attacks for your avatar.
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Old 2013-08-12, 07:04   Link #576
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I was responding to Meister's questioning of the practicality of having multiple Killer Moves.

Black Lotus is a good example of this, while Cyan Pile is the opposite.
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Old 2013-08-12, 10:52   Link #577
Sunder the Gold
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Originally Posted by Masuzu View Post
I was responding to Meister's questioning of the practicality of having multiple Killer Moves.

Black Lotus is a good example of this, while Cyan Pile is the opposite.
To explain the differences:

Black Lotus only chose close-range, single-target special attacks originating from her sword-limbs; very specialized. She had options for long-range attacks and Enhanced Armaments, but rejected them all.

Cyan Pile chose Lightning Cyan Spike, a long-range attack that extended beyond his specialty of mid-range combat. In defiance of his direct-damage coloration, his choice of Spiral Gravity Driver is as much an indirect attack that also pushes an enemy away instead of focusing on inflicting injury. Splash Stinger is an attack which forsakes his Pile-Driver instead of improving on it, which at least the other two attacks can claim. (His fourth Special Attack is unknown, and the author may have forgotten that he's supposed to have one.)

So, Cyan Pile not only refused to upgrade his basic starting abilities with passive bonises, he didn't choose any Special Attacks which worked within his intended specialty.


Personally, I blame Cyan Pile's parent, who was apparently an idiot.

Last edited by Sunder the Gold; 2013-08-12 at 11:11.
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Old 2013-08-12, 19:41   Link #578
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Btw, what can be used to improve skills and stat attributes? Only level up bonuses? And if so, how much "level up bonus" is there?
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Old 2013-08-12, 20:21   Link #579
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Originally Posted by MeisterBabylon View Post
Btw, what can be used to improve skills and stat attributes? Only level up bonuses? And if so, how much "level up bonus" is there?
Leveling up alone increases avatar parameters slightly. Other than that, there are only Level Up Bonuses, item drops, and item purchases.

And there are effectively only eight Bonus choices, at most, since no one reaches Level 10, and there's no choice for Level 1.

At Level 5, Silver Crow has already chosen half of the upgrades he can ever recieve. There are only four possible choices left.

Black Lotus also claimed that reaching as far as Level 9 would take considerable grinding in the Unlimited Neutral Field, which seems to be how she and the other Kings made it.

It only took Lotus two years in the real world, but how many decades or even centuries in the Accelerated one?


It's possible that there's some rare item or Enemy in the UNL that you can collect or kill to upgrade your avatar in some way, but such a thing should only work once (per avatar, or at all).
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Old 2013-08-12, 23:44   Link #580
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Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
Leveling up alone increases avatar parameters slightly. Other than that, there are only Level Up Bonuses, item drops, and item purchases.

And there are effectively only eight Bonus choices, at most, since no one reaches Level 10, and there's no choice for Level 1.

At Level 5, Silver Crow has already chosen half of the upgrades he can ever recieve. There are only four possible choices left.

Black Lotus also claimed that reaching as far as Level 9 would take considerable grinding in the Unlimited Neutral Field, which seems to be how she and the other Kings made it.

It only took Lotus two years in the real world, but how many decades or even centuries in the Accelerated one?
Understood. That means in the end, skill still matters more than level.

According to my calculations, 2 years less 1/3 for sleep and 1/3 for attending to other business * 1000, that's endlessly grinding for 800 ingame months.

And you thought Korean MMOs were insane Grindy McGrindersons.

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It's possible that there's some rare item or Enemy in the UNL that you can collect or kill to upgrade your avatar in some way, but such a thing should only work once (per avatar, or at all).
Platforming minigame! Go exploring for Datacrons and hidden scrolls.
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