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Old 2016-08-15, 09:22   Link #3861
Somethindarker
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Originally Posted by Reality Breaker 2.0 View Post
Then what about Bell finding out Aiz doesn't fit his ideal? A number of people were mentioned this and that as a result, the progress rate of his exp boost slowed down. Is this true?
Pretty much. He found out that Aiz wasn't an all powerful ideal adventurer that he built her up to be in his mind, he found out that she's basically just mindlessly killing without remorse just to get stronger. Alot of people thought Bell was just in love with her but it was more complicated than that it's closer to hero worship with some infatuation, kind of like when otaku's find out that their idol isn't the perfect little saint they built her up to be they get let down. It's a common trope and very interesting hopefully Bell's xp boost stays nerfed and that he even loses it.
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Old 2016-08-15, 09:25   Link #3862
The Green One
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If it does leave him though, he'll pretty much be lvl 3 for the rest of the story considering how hard it is to level up normally, unless we have some sort of timeskip.
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Old 2016-08-15, 09:39   Link #3863
Somethindarker
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Originally Posted by The Green One View Post
If it does leave him though, he'll pretty much be lvl 3 for the rest of the story considering how hard it is to level up normally, unless we have some sort of timeskip.
He'll probably be gimped until he's level 4 then be about halfway to level 5 then PLOT and hell stay level 5. Right now he's stronger than the average person his level so at level 5 he'll be good.
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Old 2016-08-15, 09:42   Link #3864
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Well he does have the party member who can give the free level temporary hax. He probably won't go beyond level four on his own.
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Old 2016-08-15, 09:49   Link #3865
Y Ddraig Goch
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Originally Posted by Somethindarker View Post
Pretty much. He found out that Aiz wasn't an all powerful ideal adventurer that he built her up to be in his mind, he found out that she's basically just mindlessly killing without remorse just to get stronger. Alot of people thought Bell was just in love with her but it was more complicated than that it's closer to hero worship with some infatuation, kind of like when otaku's find out that their idol isn't the perfect little saint they built her up to be they get let down. It's a common trope and very interesting hopefully Bell's xp boost stays nerfed and that he even loses it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Green One View Post
If it does leave him though, he'll pretty much be lvl 3 for the rest of the story considering how hard it is to level up normally, unless we have some sort of timeskip.
I'd prefer for him to gain a new, more permanent motivation; for his idolization of Ais evolve into overall achieving his hero ideal and thus become the new point of focus for his ability. Him losing it so soon is the last thing I want to see.

His progress rate by volume would be virtually stagnant. But the eleventh volume's summary gives me hope regarding this issue.
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Old 2016-08-15, 11:06   Link #3866
Somethindarker
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Originally Posted by Reality Breaker 2.0 View Post
I'd prefer for him to gain a new, more permanent motivation; for his idolization of Ais evolve into overall achieving his hero ideal and thus become the new point of focus for his ability. Him losing it so soon is the last thing I want to see.

His progress rate by volume would be virtually stagnant. But the eleventh volume's summary gives me hope regarding this issue.
I'd like him to lose it by level 5 to be honest it, would make him stand on even ground with almost all adventurers and the plot can focus on the characters and adventure instead of levels. Him losing Aiz as a motivation would be great character development as it would show him grow as a person from little kid to adult, but then again I doubt the author would do something like that.
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Old 2016-08-15, 22:19   Link #3867
The Green One
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You never know, the rose colored glasses of the Adventurer life was steadily smashed with each volume for Bell as he's grown bit by bit from the boy who foolishly wanted a harem without even understanding it into his own man slowly finding his place in the world and what being a hero represents to him. His obsession with Aiz is slowly being stripped away as well as he gets to know the girl rather than the untouchable legend. This still has potential.
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Old 2016-08-15, 22:23   Link #3868
bakato
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Somethindarker View Post
Pretty much. He found out that Aiz wasn't an all powerful ideal adventurer that he built her up to be in his mind, he found out that she's basically just mindlessly killing without remorse just to get stronger. Alot of people thought Bell was just in love with her but it was more complicated than that it's closer to hero worship with some infatuation, kind of like when otaku's find out that their idol isn't the perfect little saint they built her up to be they get let down. It's a common trope and very interesting hopefully Bell's xp boost stays nerfed and that he even loses it.
When did this happen?
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Old 2016-08-15, 22:40   Link #3869
KnightShade
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volume 10 when she wanted to kill wiene whom he was protecting
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Old 2016-08-15, 22:47   Link #3870
bakato
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Originally Posted by kidstandout View Post
volume 10 when she wanted to kill wiene whom he was protecting
I didn't see anything that detailed in the wiki. She only told Bell she'd kill monsters that had a reason to live if they made others cry and when Wiene went on a rampage she only cut off Asterius' arm.
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Old 2016-08-15, 22:59   Link #3871
XFire
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Somethindarker View Post
Pretty much. He found out that Aiz wasn't an all powerful ideal adventurer that he built her up to be in his mind, he found out that she's basically just mindlessly killing without remorse just to get stronger. Alot of people thought Bell was just in love with her but it was more complicated than that it's closer to hero worship with some infatuation, kind of like when otaku's find out that their idol isn't the perfect little saint they built her up to be they get let down. It's a common trope and very interesting hopefully Bell's xp boost stays nerfed and that he even loses it.
No he didn't.

I get that some people don't like Aiz. It's understandable given that this is a harem series, and she seems to be the designated winner because first girl privileges.

But you need to stop making shit up to fit your fantasy. At no point in the summary did Bell become disillusioned with Aiz, nor did he lose his boost. And it was at no point insinuated that Aiz was some kind of mindless murder drone. She doesn't even know the intelligent monsters exist, and simply said if she came across one she'd still protect humans over it.

The only thing Bell became depressed with was his own weakness because he couldn't keep the incident from happening and had to harm other people to save the monster girl.
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Old 2016-08-15, 23:23   Link #3872
KnightShade
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bakato View Post
I didn't see anything that detailed in the wiki. She only told Bell she'd kill monsters that had a reason to live if they made others cry and when Wiene went on a rampage she only cut off Asterius' arm.
somethingdarker is paraphrasing (or exaggerating depending on who you ask), but the general implication is that the way bell views things is diverging from aiz, specifically when it comes to who should be protected. yeah you can say aiz doesn't know the situation fully, but the shoot first ask questions later stance isn't exactly being made up here.
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Old 2016-08-15, 23:27   Link #3873
Somethindarker
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Originally Posted by XFire View Post
No he didn't.

I get that some people don't like Aiz. It's understandable given that this is a harem series, and she seems to be the designated winner because first girl privileges.

But you need to stop making shit up to fit your fantasy. At no point in the summary did Bell become disillusioned with Aiz, nor did he lose his boost. And it was at no point insinuated that Aiz was some kind of mindless murder drone. She doesn't even know the intelligent monsters exist, and simply said if she came across one she'd still protect humans over it.

The only thing Bell became depressed with was his own weakness because he couldn't keep the incident from happening and had to harm other people to save the monster girl.
Then we read different summaries. Sure I simplified my recollections roughly but that's pretty much what happened, we don't know exactly why his level boost got weaker(I never said he lost his boost) but from what took place in the story and what it was implied one of the main factors was that he and Aiz didn't see eye to eye on how things went down he didn't like Aiz's answer to some question he asked her or something can't remember.


@kidstandout pretty much said it, I paraphrase and exaggerate a bit for comedic effect. But the way it went down is pretty much there.
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Old 2016-08-16, 00:58   Link #3874
XFire
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Somethindarker View Post
Then we read different summaries. Sure I simplified my recollections roughly but that's pretty much what happened, we don't know exactly why his level boost got weaker(I never said he lost his boost) but from what took place in the story and what it was implied one of the main factors was that he and Aiz didn't see eye to eye on how things went down he didn't like Aiz's answer to some question he asked her or something can't remember.


@kidstandout pretty much said it, I paraphrase and exaggerate a bit for comedic effect. But the way it went down is pretty much there.
Again, he never had any negative reaction to what Aiz said. He was only ever upset with his own weakness.

Hell, the one I read said he understood why Aiz said what she did and that if he hadn't actually met the monsters he'd have been the same.
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Old 2016-08-16, 01:37   Link #3875
quigonkenny
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Originally Posted by XFire View Post
Again, he never had any negative reaction to what Aiz said. He was only ever upset with his own weakness.

Hell, the one I read said he understood why Aiz said what she did and that if he hadn't actually met the monsters he'd have been the same.
I haven't read any summaries, and in fact am trying to avoid anything too detailed (the broad strokes are already spoiled for me), but I've got to say this development sounds more like the Bell we know and love and sometimes facepalm over...
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Old 2016-08-16, 02:25   Link #3876
DerDoppelganger
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Originally Posted by XFire View Post
No he didn't.

I get that some people don't like Aiz. It's understandable given that this is a harem series, and she seems to be the designated winner because first girl privileges.

But you need to stop making shit up to fit your fantasy. At no point in the summary did Bell become disillusioned with Aiz, nor did he lose his boost. And it was at no point insinuated that Aiz was some kind of mindless murder drone. She doesn't even know the intelligent monsters exist, and simply said if she came across one she'd still protect humans over it.

The only thing Bell became depressed with was his own weakness because he couldn't keep the incident from happening and had to harm other people to save the monster girl.
That's more like it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Somethindarker View Post
Then we read different summaries. Sure I simplified my recollections roughly but that's pretty much what happened, we don't know exactly why his level boost got weaker(I never said he lost his boost) but from what took place in the story and what it was implied one of the main factors was that he and Aiz didn't see eye to eye on how things went down he didn't like Aiz's answer to some question he asked her or something can't remember.


@kidstandout pretty much said it, I paraphrase and exaggerate a bit for comedic effect. But the way it went down is pretty much there.
As someone who actually read volume X, I can assure you that it is not the case, since it took place within a day and that this issue has been a recurrent problem since Bell reached level 3 between volumes VI and VII, with a small boost in chapter VI of volume VIII.

Bell's lack of progress is mostly due to his lack of meaningful interactions with Aiz, which have always resulted in his stats growing by leaps and bounds.

Their "falling out" took place at the end of volume X, so it is still too soon to speak of its consequences, or lack thereof.

Also, Hestia Familia is another limiting factor, since Bell has to protect his considerably weaker teammates rather than focusing on himself.

While they all possess skills and magic that allow them to fight above their weight class, it is insufficent for them to stop being a burden.

It is not for nothing that recent volumes have mostly taken place in Orario rather than in the Dungeon, since it is easier for everyone to find a suitable match when fighting other adventurers.

Acting solo is no longer an option, but being surrounded by stronger, more experienced teammates would allow Bell to delve deeper into the Dungeon, and to progress at a much faster pace. Sadly, that is not the case, unless the Xenos join his party, although Ryuu will help fill the gap in volume XI.
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Old 2016-08-16, 07:40   Link #3877
Somethindarker
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Originally Posted by DerDoppelganger View Post
That's more like it.



As someone who actually read volume X, I can assure you that it is not the case, since it took place within a day and that this issue has been a recurrent problem since Bell reached level 3 between volumes VI and VII, with a small boost in chapter VI of volume VIII.

Bell's lack of progress is mostly due to his lack of meaningful interactions with Aiz, which have always resulted in his stats growing by leaps and bounds.

Their "falling out" took place at the end of volume X, so it is still too soon to speak of its consequences, or lack thereof.

Also, Hestia Familia is another limiting factor, since Bell has to protect his considerably weaker teammates rather than focusing on himself.

While they all possess skills and magic that allow them to fight above their weight class, it is insufficent for them to stop being a burden.

It is not for nothing that recent volumes have mostly taken place in Orario rather than in the Dungeon, since it is easier for everyone to find a suitable match when fighting other adventurers.

Acting solo is no longer an option, but being surrounded by stronger, more experienced teammates would allow Bell to delve deeper into the Dungeon, and to progress at a much faster pace. Sadly, that is not the case, unless the Xenos join his party, although Ryuu will help fill the gap in volume XI.
Thanks for clearin' that up.
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Old 2016-08-16, 10:51   Link #3878
Kuroageha
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Bell's current lack of growth isn't because of his interactions with Aiz but because his ideals are changing and he hasn't made up his mind. An internal struggle between his ideals and the reality playing.
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Old 2016-08-16, 14:44   Link #3879
DerDoppelganger
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Is that so?

Every time Bell has experienced an exponential growth in his stats was a result of him spending quality time with Aiz, such as in volumes III and VI.

It has already been two months and two days since Bell reached level 3, and he didn't meet Aiz again until chapter VI of volume VIII, where he only had to run besides Aiz, along with a minor altercation with some harpies, for his stats to increase by 198 points, including 53 points to his agility. He didn't meet her again until volume X.

Volume IX took place within a week, and volume X within a single day, so it has only been 8 days since Bell discovered the existence of the Xenos, after which he began to question his beliefs towards the nature of monsters and the concept of adventuring in itself, which leaves more than one month and three weeks of unrelated stagnation, most of it taking place before his meeting with Aiz in volume VIII, when is infatuation with her was still as strong as ever.

This amount of time would have been sufficient for him to be on the verge of leveling up twice, if he had maintained his usual pace, that is.

Aiz is still the one Bell is chasing after and the key to his unprecedented growth through Realis Phrase, and will continue to be if he is to reach her level before the end of the series, unless another were to take her place in his heart, which may very well happen in the future, but hasn't as of yet.

Again, she is more curious than anything about Bell's actions in volume X, and with Finn being who he is, it is only a matter of time before he and the rest of Loki Familia's executives discover the truth about the Xenos, restoring Bell's reputation in the process.

Also, there is no precedent for adventurers losing their skills, so the only thing that can change is the nature and strength of Bell's feelings, which will affect the rate of his progress, for better or for worse.
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Old 2016-08-19, 07:09   Link #3880
Zefyris
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Honestly even if he was rising in level he wouldn't be able to go lower in the dungeon with his current team. And since his current "dungeon teammates" (combination of his familia and of the friendly familias of Takemikazuchi/Miach IIRC?) will progress slower than him anyway, that cannot change easily, as said before.
In particular there's no way that Mikoto, Welf or Chigusa reach level 3 any time soon, as that would make them far faster to level up than the previous record holder Ais. That wouldn't make any sense. So more than one year without levelling up, probably.
And if Bell were to progress despite that and find other teammates at his level like some members of the Hermes familia (Ryu is far beyond his level seriously, even if he were to reach level 4, she's the most OP level 4 who ever existed, and she hasn't even updated her status for years), this would lead to lowering even more the role of the other members of his familia. Say what you want about his familia still counting because romance and blablabla, but in volume 10, they were almost irrelevant from start to finish. And it wasn't even about lower dungeon here, they could have had a role considering the place all of this happened, but they didn't. Think of how low their role would become in case of Bell leveling up again.

I'd say that Bell staying level 3 for now is both logical (for the first time, he doesn't have access to dungeon floors with monsters of his level, since the lowest he went was floor 20, which is still level 2 monsters-> difficulty to raise his stats as fast as before-> stats not high enough, no levelling up even if fighting someone stronger and winning) AND desirable for the story anyway.
We already have sword oratoria for more dungeon oriented stuff and high level battles like we had in the 6th volume, which was full of level 6 fighting each other.
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