Macross Delta the Movie - Passionate Walkūre - Discussion Thread

[D-Joe]

Spoiler for About Mirage:

Her treatment is better in movie, i'm not sure how is it "Mirage still Mirage".
Yes she's secondary character now, but it's a secondary character with actual personality and didn't fall with Hayate for no reason at all(only a few scene foreshadowing she "seems" like Hayate, but that's it.
Also she stole Draken III and rekting bogue hard, unlike TV which just a crappy pilot always disappear from start to end.

And Mirage getting only one line is complete bs anyway, not sure why would /m/ posting fake spoiler about her part, it's not like she's blocking HayaFre anymore, so i don't see any reason to trash talk her.

Ugh before some of you say i'm defending, some of you guys maybe remember i really like Mirage's design and very disappointed of TV right? so if movie is same shit i won't even defend it at all.
That said, to be fair most of scenes still recap, so don't expect Macross F movie tier visually or you be will very disappointed.

[charles883]

To me Macross 7 is worst series as essentially 13 ep story in 50 ep series. Stop being such as jaded tak. I don't remember youre this insulting and jaded after you make review Macross Delta in this forum.

Also there another summary on Mirage is actually better, in movie instead of 1 rumor tha tshe only have 1 line.

[endlessabyss]

Should I keep making separate posts every time I find a spoiler?

=


Some comparisons between TV and movie version:

Spoiler:

What I've gleaned from conversations with my friends in Japan is:

- Mirage's role is greatly reduced vs. the TV series, and she has barely any dialog.
- King Grammier Neirich Windermere VI and Lady M are demoted to Sir Not Appearing in this Film
- There's a greater proportion of combat to singing than in the TV series.
- There's more of a fuss about Freyja being a Windermerean due to her ties to the hostile Kingdom of the Wind, which was almost an afterthought except to Bogue in the series.
- Messer dies in essentially the same way he did in the TV series, but instead of dying instantly after being shot by Keith he lives long enough to die in Kaname's arms after crashing in a more blatant echo of Roy's death in Super Dimension Fortress Macross.
- Roid kidnaps and mind controls Mikumo exactly as he did in the series.
- Makina takes a bullet and comes back for the big finale exactly as she did in the series.
- The Armored Siegfried has very little actual role in the movie.
- The ending is the same as the series, with Roid trying to enact his Delta System plan, being foiled by Freyja, and dying together with Keith, after which the Aerial Knights take their ball and go home just like they did in the series.

Source




^

[EDIT]


Followup:

Spoiler:

All told, the impression my friends gave me was that Macross Delta: Passionate Walkure is indeed better than the Macross Delta TV series... principally because it's shorter and thus they're forced to make more efficient use of time.

Source

[Tak]

Originally Posted by charles883

I don't remember youre this insulting and jaded after you make review Macross Delta in this forum.

I don't know which Tak you are remembering, but I've always maintained that Delta is the worst Macross to date. Just because I enjoyed it does not mean I didn't think its the worst out of the four existing TV series out there. Do I really need to go into details on what kind of problems Delta suffered? Especially for the villains?

At least with Macross 7, Basara can convince you with passion. There is no such conviction in Delta.

- Tak

[magnuskn]

Yeah, BOMBAAAAAAH! Basara had the passion.

If endlessabyss spoilers are correct, this movie will be just as the series, but more streamlined. How would I look forward to this?

[charles883]

Don't judge movie yet as you don't even watch movie and already judge movie as the worst macross movie ever. That makes you judgmental prick as so far that majorly positive reception on the Delta movie(other than troll and butt hurt hardcore Mirage and Messer fan) and very bad and untrustworthy critic and reviewer or viewer as general. Just like I come across a youtuber game reviewer saying Pokémon Sun and Moon are worst pokemon game ever DESPITE he NEVER EVEN TOUCH, Let alone play the game and his excuse are "I look at that game and ALREADY KNOW iITS WORST POKEMON GAME, SO NO NEED TO PLAY THAT GAME", DESPITE Huge large number of positive review. He got huge dislike and commenter call him out for it.


I even have to reserve my opinion as its not yet out in Blu ray to watch.

[HirouKeimou]

I will not go into debates on people's personal preferences on which one is best in a franchise in general; after all, as a person who loved Gundam Wing, I'll acknowledge it had flaws, and even so, people will laugh at you because in their mind Seed is the winner (similar to Frontier becoming a new "Macross standard"). It's all a preference. Personally, I believe Delta is alright for a modern anime (aside from enormous dumps of exposition) and I'll overlook it's flaws in favor of enjoyment, that's a preference though.

@charles883: No insult intended in this, but remembering the Frontier days of waiting for Sayonara no Tsubasa's Blu-ray release, I'd avoid all judgement, even in defense of the movie. Because I remember avoiding forums altogether for the backlash from Ranka fans or the quality of the story, and once it hit Blu-ray for all to see, opinions changed drastically to those who still cared to view it. So arguing their judgement is wrong right now is a little hypocritical is all I'll say.

---

The only spoiler I really liked knowing about (and dread liking it)

Spoiler for Hayate:

is that they dropped the extra father bit for Hayate. Yes, I do like his childish love for his father and one day I'd love an OVA of him visiting his mother or something, if nothing else then so we could see who she is for ourselves (because unlike Frontier, no flashback of the second parent ever crops up).

However, it does drop how Hayate is connected to Windermere or his choice to fight originally. Unlike Frontier, there is no initial war beginning his service.

Spoiler for Frontier-Delta:

Because, remembering Frontier's movie for a minute, Alto joined prior to his introduction in the movie because of the Vajra epidemic spurring his protection over Ranka whom had minor connections to it that Ozma never relayed (only entrusted him with protecting her on the sidelines) until in the movie once the Vajra officially attacked Frontier head-on. And if you'll say I'm remembering wrong, there is a scene in the movie where Grace gives you solid fact of how Galaxy's been under attack for literal weeks and Frontier has denied response. My point is, in both scenarios, Alto joined because Ozma green lighted it;

similar with Hayate, who Arad green lighted. And I know this is something likely the movie will gloss over for time constraints but I do wonder if Hayate has ingrained skill this time around that is not solely for dancing (even if that is a funnily good skill for the first battle lol).

[charles883]

Just saying judge movie after watching movie makes it more valid, that all.

[HirouKeimou]

Originally Posted by charles883

Just saying judge movie after watching movie makes it more valid, that all.

If it makes you feel better though, I occasionally wish groups like Crunchyroll or companies like Amazon could release web versions of Macross movies (if Harmony Gold would bugger off) around roughly one month from its initial release so others in the world could then view it. After all, they did it for Your Name and a bunch of other theatrical releases... and it's not like you'd view it for free; Crunchyroll requires premium membership for specific time frames and Amazon locks those movies behind Prime which requires monthly membership...

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by charles883

Don't judge movie yet as you don't even watch movie and already judge movie as the worst macross movie ever. That makes you judgmental prick as so far that majorly positive reception on the Delta movie(other than troll and butt hurt hardcore Mirage and Messer fan) and very bad and untrustworthy critic and reviewer or viewer as general. Just like I come across a youtuber game reviewer saying Pokémon Sun and Moon are worst pokemon game ever DESPITE he NEVER EVEN TOUCH, Let alone play the game and his excuse are "I look at that game and ALREADY KNOW iITS WORST POKEMON GAME, SO NO NEED TO PLAY THAT GAME", DESPITE Huge large number of positive review. He got huge dislike and commenter call him out for it.


I even have to reserve my opinion as its not yet out in Blu ray to watch.

Stop inventing things I said in your head. I said a.) I am not looking forward to the movie because b.) the TV series was, IMO, dogshit and c.) the reviews so far overwhelmingly said the movie is just a rework of the series, with minor variations on what happened there and even less Mirage. I am talking about my anticipation of how I'll like the movie based on available information, not how I "already have a reviewed it". Reading comprehension, man.

[charles883]

So is there picture of VF-31 full armored?

[Tak]

Originally Posted by charles883

Don't judge movie yet as you don't even watch movie and already judge movie as the worst macross movie ever. That makes you judgmental prick as so far that majorly positive reception on the Delta movie(other than troll and butt hurt hardcore Mirage and Messer fan)

What you are really thinking, is that you hope, for the sake of your closet Windermere fanboyism, that our opinions to the worst villains to ever grace the Macross franchise might be changed after the movie.

Well, its not going to happen.

Now, does that mean I won't see the movie? Not at all. But I am also not expecting much, either.

- Tak

[ReddyRedWolf]

Originally Posted by charles883

So is there picture of VF-31 full armored?

Spoiler for VF-31 Armored:

[endlessabyss]

Speakerpodcast Ep.100 - Macross Delta Passionate Walkure Review

[charles883]

Im not Windermere fan, Just because that I just point out that corrupt NUNS branch of the sector just at fault for causing the war being first place by using illegal WMD and cover it up like A-Laws and Titan and did not handle conflict properly, I automatically labeled as fan of windie. Just point out that NUNS branch of sector not innocent as well and just as guilty for one of the reason for causing war in the first place for being callous, corrupt, hypocrite, incompetent and happy trigger finger in the first place, tak. AND does not mean I fan of Windermere just because I point out NUNS branch sector corruption and their action in 7 years ago one of the cause this war in the first place as you guys already point out Winderemere illegal action during after NUNS WMD on their planet and during the war so no point to repeat what you says just like how Gundam fan point out Earth Federation corruption and mistreatment of colonist just as guilty for causing One-Year war as much as Neo Zeon power hungry causing one year war.

It seems you are also supporting Titan and A-laws in Gundam series as you think those corrupt NUNS action and their completely innocent and good guys despite their action similar to corrupt NUNS sector branch, tak.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by charles883

It seems you are also supporting Titan and A-laws in Gundam series as you think those corrupt NUNS action and their completely innocent and good guys despite their action similar to corrupt NUNS sector branch, tak.

Because compared to NUNS, Windermere is worse. This is a fact that continues to elude you.

Let me remind you, NUNS’ opponent in Delta had been focused on Windermere, whereas the latter subjugated neighboring planets and near bombed the entire galaxy.

I don’t need you to remind us that NUNS is corrupt. We learned that since Macross PLUS.

Oh yeah, ya know what the Titans, A-Laws and the Aerial Knights all have in common? None of them got beautiful green-haired alien babes. A major deduction in my book.

- Tak

[HirouKeimou]

To be fair here, charles883 does kind of have a small point: Neither side has clean hands in this. In the past, I said this is all very similar to Pearl Harbor, by which one side attacked the other based on false pretenses of their "possible" future attack on their country which of course led to an all-out war in the end. The similarities do bleed into Delta, and because of the shady dealings of N.U.N.S., I refuse to discount either side from being guilty in murdering innocent people.

Even so, I do believe it's a bit of a stretch to like Windermere (or at least the ones who really do wanna kill everyone, a.k.a. Roid); however, I do feel sympathy sometimes for Keith (who admired Roid and tried to live up to his father's expectations while playing second fiddle to Heinz) and also Heinz (who was suckered into all of this political nonsense without really comprehending his position). Then I also sympathize with members of the Windermere army who only joined because of a desire to protect their family from something their homeland deemed an enemy (like Cassim) and died for those false beliefs. It's hard to discard how human those characters can feel, especially considering how many people go through this in real life on a daily basis (like Iraq). I don't like Windermere, but I can sympathize with their initial beliefs because of the events 7 years ago planting all of this madness in their minds. In reality, aside from Bogue, none of the Windermere heads (even Keith) really did wanna kill any of the humans (aside from those who stood in their path). And I'll remind you, Keith literally waited for Messer to fight him in the sky instead of killing him on the ground; a sign he respected Messer.

The truth is, while Windermere is human through these characters or scenes, Roid ruined it all by deciding he is ruler (and staging Heinz as their ruler) and convincing everyone his bogus plan is a viable option and raising all of them like pigs for slaughter. After all, I don't think Keith or any of the others in the Windermere army could see his betrayal coming, even if we who are watching it unfold on screen did.

---

Okay, TV series and political junk aside (seriously, I escaped this forum because of it... how is it still ongoing?), on JP Twitter, I ran across an answer to my earlier post about Hayate:

Spoiler for His father.:

According to one tweet, Hayate joined because of his father. The person also said it's possible it's his dream to outlive his father's legacy and become like him (a strong, confident pilot). No connection to Windermere in all of this, but it does help piece some of his current mindset for me in the movie.

[charles883]

Man, full armored VF-31 has more heavily armored and weapon than full Armored VF-25 and YF-29 combined.

After hearing podcast about movie and if its true, my opinion on NUNS sink even further.

Spoiler for Possible Spoiler for movie:

Based on podcast, turn out those branch of NUNS purposely allow Windermere independence War to happen. The reason was that they use chaos and distraction of the battle and war to infiltrate ruin to steal DNA sample of Star Singer which led to creation of Mikumo. After they steal sample, and data, those conspirator decided to use Illegal Dimension Eater bomb that they smuggle in Windermere to destroy ruin with city above it to destroy evidence on their illegal operation and cover their tracks and make use of Hayate father as scapegoat. Luckily Hayate father caught wind on his bosses scheme and try to drop bomb elsewhere but his boss activate bomb early as they caught wind on Hayate father intention, forcing Hayate father to drop the bomb early.

I was happy that Lady M able to gather hard and irrefutable evidence on the truth of WMD bombing in Windermere and use it to threaten NUNS on revealing those evidence in entire NUNS nation if they do not have fair peace agreement and negotiation with Winderemere (not like Treaty of Versailles type treaty) after Roid defeat. NUNS, who already weaken by the war, comply to Lady M demand as they do not want large scale rebellion to happen. Now whose more evil again?

[magnuskn]

Still Windermere.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by charles883

I was happy that Lady M able to gather hard and irrefutable evidence on the truth of WMD bombing in Windermere and use it to threaten NUNS on revealing those evidence in entire NUNS nation if they do not have fair peace agreement and negotiation with Winderemere (not like Treaty of Versailles type treaty) after Roid defeat. NUNS, who already weaken by the war, comply to Lady M demand as they do not want large scale rebellion to happen. Now whose more evil again? [/SPOILER]

Have you any idea just how large the NUNs actually is? You probably don't know. Who is the head of the NUNs? you also don't know.

So one branch of the NUNs did some pretty iffy things and therefore it means the entire organization is crap. I mean, never mind that these were the guys who kept humanity afloat since Space War I, and who later liberated the planets under Windermerian subjugation, right?

But what did Windermere do? Instead of exposing these supposedly terrible intentions of the NUNs, they subjugated neighboring planets, attempting to blow up the galaxy, and did things to Mikumo that even NUNs refrained from committing. Oh, lets also not forget those little essays about Windermerian supremacy and how they are heirs to the galaxy, blah blah blah blah blah...

I mean of course, they did all that while their entire society is still in medieval stasis.

Actually, sorry, I am going to take what I said before back. Windermere isn't evil, because that'd actually give the word evil a bad rep. no, the Windermerians are just fucking retarded.

- Tak (Also, you might want to consider reading the fine print regarding Dimension weapons)