Claymore Chapter 82

[Seska]

Wow, i never saw that coming... Well in someway. Rafaela saved her sister... I am curious how the story will go on. And i am not the Time line freak. With a bit "correction" the Story gets more interesting, don't you agree?

edit:
and if there must be a team up. Clare would chose Riful. Because, she is a enemy that Clare knows

[rukori]

Originally Posted by Defiled one

No, not really. Clare is, without a doubt, a traumatized person whom suffered extreme physical abuses. Her behaviour is uncaring an often suicidal, rage driven, when verbally provoked. She appears to suffer from an abssesive disorder called the Oedipus complex with necrophiliac tendencies.
The sexual orientation of the patient has not improved over time. In fact, it is thought to have worsened into jealous pederasty. A youth named Raki,being the cause.

wowowow??????..
You made me dizzy... but I agree, Clare won't cooperate with loli no matter what, she's her nemesis.

@King Lycan: My prediction is that it will have no memories and Riful will make it obey like how Isley controlled loli - Fake words and promises.

@Seska: But would Riful let Clare choose her? It looks like Riful now has a special grudge for Clare after the humiliation Clare put her through. so I think it's more likely that Riful will treat Clare in a way that will make her envy Rene.

[FlareKnight]

Well that was a pretty interesting chapter. Can't blame Riful for taking the extra precautions . Too many times things got away from her so will play this as well as possible. Making an aim for what will awaken to be strong enough to be useful, but no stronger than Riful is. Or else she will make the move to take it out before things get out of hand. Didn't think she had this kind of secret. Way to try and push the power balance to your favour Riful.

[King Lycan]

I mean don't both luciela and Raphaela have there brains

[KillerYomaFromSpace]

what I learned from this chapter, is that Riful-chan is probably the last person I would like to piss off

[rukori]

All the characters in this series have psychological issues so it's not unlikely that it will have no memories and maybe a sister complex or something...

[KillerYomaFromSpace]

also, other thing that I love about Claymore, is that even with the story having advanced and being developed that much, I can't predict what happens, not even in the weirdest theories I that have read or thought, came anything close to the war in the outside world, or the Rafaciela thing, I hope it keeps doing this

[Zsych]

Looks like Isley's plan backfired, and may have lead to the creation of a being as strong as Priscilla... which is what I expect... and I expect the new monster to escape Riful, whether or not it awakens.

I wish they'd show the sign of being half-youma. I want to see this supposedly catastrophic ugliness.

[dee32]

I was kind of hoping in this chapter Clare and Clarice would talk. When Galatea and Father Vincent were talking I was kind of hoping they would show what ever is on the claymores bodies. If Clare is going west I hope she stops by Irene's cabin first before some how making it to where Riful is to save Rune. Does anyone have a map of the claymore world? Also while Clare and the others are gone, I hope Clarice and Miata train with Mira and Galatea.

[chibamonster]

The thing that gets me is that these surprising plot twists are always based on things we have already seen! And they make sense for the development of the plot. We did not know how the ghosts survived Pieta until we saw them alive and they explained they took half a pill. We already knew all about the pills in another way, but suddenly they were developed to do something surprising that made complete sense with the story. It is crazy!

I am guessing now that whatever is on Claymore's torso's looks somewhat like the parts of Raphaela and Luciella that have merged. Many AB's have a very distinct look to them, like there are tentacles under their skin, and I would not be surprised if that had something to do with what is on Claymores. Though I imagine there will be another twist along with it to really scare people... like Teresa's smiling face as a hood ornament on Clare....

[PGilis]

Originally Posted by Defiled one

No, not really. Clare is, without a doubt, a traumatized person whom suffered extreme physical abuses. Her behaviour is uncaring an often suicidal, rage driven, when verbally provoked. She appears to suffer from an abssesive disorder called the Oedipus complex with necrophiliac tendencies.

The sexual orientation of the patient has not improved over time. In fact, it is thought to have worsened into jealous pederasty. A youth named Raki,being the cause.

Anoooo... It's impossible Clare suffers of pederasty, because - you see - she is not a man! (or Raki is a girl)

Still, you're right, she is too traumatized, rage driven and suicidal for her own good. That's why Miria-neesan would let her go search for Raki just if she accept two other companions to help her (more like, to keep an eye on her).

God, how i'd love to see this manga series with more pages per chapter! Now we have 5 or more different quests for next chapter:

1) Clare's search for Raki;
2) Miria and Galatea taking care of Miata and Clarice in Rabona; (i'd love to see Galatea taking Miata to know the children on the church! )
3) Riful's ambitions in revive Rafaciela;
4) The adventures of Helen and Deneve;
5) Raki's search for Clare;

On top of that, now it's confirmed all the Claymores have a nasty, hediond deformity over their belly.

[Defiled one]

Originally Posted by KillerYomaFromSpace

what I learned from this chapter, is that Riful-chan is probably the last person I would like to piss off

Riful is educated, but she regards suffering as something trivial and enjoyable to watch. She is sadistic, to the point of being sexually aroused by it. Her Eugenic beliefs are a way of life and her narcissist behaviour inflatuate a fragile ego whom hungers for aceptance, in her case, to have friends.

Until Clare appears...

To Riful, Clare is an anomaly. A 47 capable of controlling the Awakening to limits beyond normal, up to 80% without losing it? Now that`s something you don`t see everyday. But that´s not all, this 47 had friends, whom were far greater in strenght, and still acepted her. Why? This was something that Riful could not perceive.
And worse, she was tricked and toyed. A stab she could not forgive. And for that, Clare must be punished. After all, Clare is in debt to her. Because in Riful`s mind, Clare is merely alive because she allowed it so. And that´s why Clare, is hers.

I did my best to portray Riful of course

[Vinak]

Originally Posted by PGilis

On top of that, now it's confirmed all the Claymores have a nasty, hediond deformity over their belly.

we have always known this.

Half awakened beings on the other hand are still unknown.

Father Vincent saw Clare before she partially awakened and both Clarice and Miata or normal Claymores....well sorta normal.

[Defiled one]

Yeah, we speculated it, but we don`t know if they still have it after a so called half awakening. At least we know that Awakened don`t have it anymore.

[Vinak]

It would be really interesting if we were to give each Character a Psychoanalysis.

Could provide some insight into each character and perhaps allow us to further speculate on the storyline.

[PGilis]

Originally Posted by Vinak

we have always known this.

Half awakened beings on the other hand are still unknown.

Father Vincent saw Clare before she partially awakened and both Clarice and Miata or normal Claymores....well sorta normal.

But as far i remember, regeneration rellies strongly in memories. If a member is lost, a Claymore of defensive type will regenerate the lost member as long she remember the feelings and functions of that member. That's why a defensive type like Galatea can recover her recently lost arm, but not her long lost eyes or, apparently, her belly.

According what she said to Father Vincent, we can suppose she had that same deformity common to all claymores, even being a defensive type.

If a half-awaked Claymore is a Claymore who was awaking but went back to the normal, and if the "normal" for them - as far they remember - is a human-like body with that deformity on their belly, that don't mean even half-awakeds still have that deformity?

After all, after half-awaking they still have silver eyes and blond hair. So is more logical to suppose everything else is still the same.

[Vinak]

Father Vincent gave Clare First Aid before She partially awakened. He has never seen her torso after the partial awakening. the only Claymore Torso we have actually seen belonged to Jean after her partial awakening which was shown to be perfectly normal. Which is the reason we can speculate the abnormality disappears after a partial awakening. But this can be dismissed because her entire body awakened leaving only her mind.

Only Clare, Jean, Miria, Helen, and Deneve are partially awakened and we have yet to see what their torso's look like and it is never hinted that another character has seen them either. This leaves Galatea, Yuma, Cynthia, Tabitha, Clarice, and Miata as "normal" claymores and assumed they still have the deformed Torso.

So the speculation of whether or not a partially awakened Being does or does not have a deformed torso can still be debated.

As for the healing stuff you are talking about. I don't really understand what you are trying to say, sorry. =(

[Defiled one]

Guys, we all are missing the point. If an Organization is willing to spend that much gold and human life in order to defeat this enemy. Then, what kind of raw power does this enemy have? To make the Org say than an Abyssal is not enough? A freaking Abyssal! Seriously!! They must be really strong, or very smart.

[Vinak]

I'm assuming you are talking about the DOD.

my theory is that they have a very large numerical advantage. and its not that an abyssal isn't enough. they simply don't have any control over an abyssal which makes them completely useless.

[Fenrir_valindri]

Originally Posted by Kinematics

Spoiler for Stuff I agree with:

Ok, as of now there appears to be a general agreement that there are three 'tiers' of abilities in the Sensing category: perception, alignment, and manipulation. By tiers I mean names that may or may not be logically distinct. For now I'll abbreviate them P, A and M.

We know that all Claymores have some level of P. We know that very few Claymores have any level of M. And we know that P is related to M (cf: Riful). M is thus a specialized subset of P. M implies P (M > P), but P does not imply M (P /> M).

We know that A is related to M. Rubel's explanation and the general instances of various usages to me implies that M is a subset of A. "But the broad principal is the same as your way of aligning your yoma energy to manipulate opponents." In other words, alignment is the tool and manipulation is the application. Therefore M > A, and A implies the possibility of M, but they are not the same thing.

Since M is a subset of both A and P, and appears to be a complete subset of each, that implies that A is at least a partial subset of P. However while M implies P, no degree of P must necessarily imply M.

There is a potential flaw here in that A and M may in fact be completely independant of P since A and M involve the control of yoma energy, while P does not. However since their effectiveness is severely hampered without sufficient ability to perceive fine detail (and thus have alignments match up closely enough to actually be useful), there's not much point in considering that portion of them.

Therefore, in the case of Riful's needs, there may in fact be Claymores with great talents with alignment that are completely unable to use those talents because of a lack of perception skill. As such there's no point in looking at Claymore with poor perception, and she'd be better served looking at those with good perception first and hope they have at least a little talent at alignment and manipulation.


Next we have Suppression - S - which is based on control of yoma energy in such a way as to make it difficult to be perceived. There appear to be two methods: forced suppression (eg: Clare vs the 6-armed AB, or vs Ophelia) and natural dissipation (the 7 Ghosts, Irene, Rafaela). Both make it more difficult to perceive the target (on forced suppression, cf: Clare and Miria's first fight). In no case does suppression seem to have any direct relation to any of the above elements (some indirect relation to perception, since good perception should allow you to better judge how well you are suppressing your aura).

As both seem to have similar effect, we can presume that they work on the same thing: reduction of the ambient yoma energy around a person. If you consider a Claymore's yoma aura as akin to an electromagnetic field (purely speculative analogy; you're free to come up with a different one if you prefer), forced suppression would be reducing the electrical power flowing through the conductor (the Claymore), while natural dissipation would be turning off the power and allowing the residual field that's created by the physical conductor's aligned atoms to dissipate as the atoms return to a naturally chaotic, non-magnetized state.

A masked aura such as Riful has would be constructed by creating a secondary field with a moderate amount of power and reducing the power output to the primary core. In order for the secondary field to be visible, and not just an amplification of the original, it would need to be created such that it's 'alignment' was offset from the original. Thus in order for Clare to perceive Riful's true power, she would need to align her perceptions with the interior field rather than the more obvious exterior field.


My own interpretations (including above assumptions):

Base perception: Detect yoma/Claymore/etc. The better you are, the greater the distance you can detect at and the smaller the details you can perceive. Your own aura may affect your perceptions, so a certain degree of aura suppression is beneficial to best be able to perceive others.

Yoki control (internal): General manipulation of your own yoki for various purposes.

Yoki control (projected): Being able to project yoma energy outwards for various purposes.

Alignment (1): Align your perceptions with the target's aura. Purposes: view auras at different alignments, and thus capable of detecting masked auras. Extreme use: Predictive perception.

Suppression (f): (Forced Suppression) - Reducing your own yoki aura by dampening the power flow. Requires internal yoki control.

Suppression (d): (Natural Dissipation) - Reduction of residual aura over time. Does not require yoki control.

Suppression (fd): (Forced Dissipation; possibly Priscilla's talent) - Reducing your own yoki aura as S(f) and also destroying the internal alignment that maintains the residual field, allowing return to a neutral state. Requires internal yoki control.

Masking: Creating an alternate aura by passing a portion of your power through a differently-aligned portion of yourself, or possibly just passing it through your body in a different manner. Can combine with S(f) to create a false aura to be detected. Requires a high degree of internal yoki control, and probably a large amount of excess power to be used for the mask field.

Alignment (2): Align your aura with your target's. Requires internal yoki control and high level perception (otherwise the alignment wouldn't match except by luck, or would match only approximately). Once aligned, can make use of further techniques:

-- Manipulation: Control of target's yoki use, either directly (eg: forced awakening, forced return from going over limit) or indirectly (cf: Intent vs Action). Requires projected yoki control.

-- Preparation for Soul Link. Requires projected yoki control and probably additional techniques.

-- Healing: Appears to be distinct from Manipulation, but uncertain exactly how. Implication of Cynthia helping Galatea is that she would be able to enable an offensive type Claymore to regenerate like a defensive type would.

-- Other? (cf: Riful's plans for Raciela).

-- In theory it should be possible to align your aura with the target's without the two auras directly interacting, perhaps to be used as a 'mimic' technique. Might be what the Shadow Hunter technique is based on. This would not require any skill in projected yoki control.


Intent vs Action: In non-suppressed state, a Claymore's intent is first directed into the flow of their yoki. Predictive perception makes use of that to determine what the action will be before the action actually takes place; degree of success depends on perception skill, alignment (1), and user's aura level (degree of suppression). Manipulation makes use of that by inserting a desired action into the yoki flow; degree of success depends on projected yoki control, amount of yoki the user can project (surplus levels?), and alignment (2). Full suppression would be a counter to both of those techniques since the yoki flow no longer represents the intent.


So overall I'm mainly in agreement with you, just that I think a bit more refinement in looking at things is needed to really understand the interacting nature of these abilities. And glad you're posting again, since yours helped me sort out this jumbled mess that's been floating around in my head.

A vast majority of your explanation is exactly how I percieved them while reading Claymore.

On a side note, (f) supression is probably required for natural supression to occur; as Teresa; despite going a significant amount of time without using Yoki; was still detectable by the hunting group.

Teresa noted that she could try to suppress her aura, but it was already too late. (As they wouldn't be in town if they didn't already detect her.)

So Forced Suppression needs to be applied for a long period of time in order for natural suppression to become possible. Priscilla's talent seems to allow her to do this in a much shorter period of time then we would except.

Raphaela's suppression took years; hence the reason Teresa could still sense her; but later Rubel comments no one would be able to detect her; much like the Ghosts now.

Also, one other silly thought on Priscilla's current aura. I'm reminded of an early episode of Soul Eater where Maka tries to perceive Shinigama-sama's soul but can't see anything -- because his soul encompasses the entire school/town. She can't see it as distinct because she's standing in the middle of it. Perhaps that's what Renee sensed, and why she was so surprised? Probably not, but amusing to consider anyway.

I doubt this; as anyone in the Claymore world would be able to sense her Aura as long as they were far enough away. Unless of course you are implying her Aura is bigger then the island they are living on. (Which would be mind boggling)

I think her suppression talents are simply that impressive.