Claymore Chapter 95

[MisterJB]

Originally Posted by Gangsta Spanksta

and yet Alicia kills everybody surrounding Riful. This is a conscious decision not a berserk frenzy.

You are not understading my point. I'm not saying Alicia is attacking everything in sigth, I'm saying that Alicia didn't forget her main mission, to kill Riful, and the AFs were simply getting in her way. I expect her next chapter to attack Riful and the figth to be interrupted by the Beth Kitty.

[Shiek927]

Originally Posted by MisterJB

You are not understading my point. I'm not saying Alicia is attacking everything in sigth, I'm saying that Alicia didn't forget her main mission, to kill Riful, and the AFs were simply getting in her way. I expect her next chapter to attack Riful and the figth to be interrupted by the Beth Kitty.

If Alicia can't even comprehend that the AE's are on her side and they were helping her kill Riful, the Organization REALLY messed up

Sorry, but I can't believe that. Alicia is dumb to all things non-combat, but if her computer mind can't even seperate friend from foe....

[Ulquihorror]

Rubel shows up and tells Alicia to stop

[Seska]

So in short, no one knows what next happen to Riful?

Seems likes the Writer has accomplish his mission

[Celestial Teapot]

Originally Posted by MisterJB

You are not understading my point. I'm not saying Alicia is attacking everything in sigth, I'm saying that Alicia didn't forget her main mission, to kill Riful, and the AFs were simply getting in her way. I expect her next chapter to attack Riful and the figth to be interrupted by the Beth Kitty.

Ah, I think you're really reaching with this one. I just don't see Alicia being impatient -- she's really unable to have emotions from what we've seen. I see Alicia trying to save Riful, so Riful can kill her.

Bess is losing control of Alicia, and the data books made it sound like the sisters operate as one being while linked together by their yoki. To me, the most logical solution is simply Alicia wants to have Riful kill her because Bess is already dying, and the twins know that if she doesn't revert Alicia back to human form, she will be stuck as an awakened being.

However, we saw with Luciela that even after awakening one does not forget their family. Ophelia seemed to maintain her personality to a T upon awakening, and it wasn't until she saw her reflection that she realized what she was.

I see this ending one of seven-- broad, I know -- ways next chapter:

1. Bess dies before reverting Alicia, and Alicia loses her anchor and thus becomes an awakened being. She attempts to attack Riful, only to be stopped by the Bess-kitty.
   
2. Bess dies and Alicia (still awakened) rushes over to her to avenge her death. And Alicia vs Bess-kitty begins.
   
3. Bess dies and Alicia kills Riful and Duff, and then goes off to be a new Abyssal One.
   
4. Bess survives by some miracle (Cynthia and Yuma coming across her has always been a possibility, and Cynthia always seemed to be the type to save a warrior to me.) This could set it up for Yuma to die by Bess-kitty and Alicia coming to the rescue.
   
5. The arrival of Miria, Galatea, Tabitha, and maybe even Clarice/Miata to Bess's location. This opens up another plethora of possibilities that I won't speculate on further.
   
6. See above.
   
7. Dragonkin come and the manga ends.

edit: added a seventh

[SagaraSouske]

I don't think the twins possess the same sense as normal claymores that rather die then awaken. So I doubt Alicia wants Riful to kill her.

They are definitely still linked via Soul link but neither is fully in control. Why she only kill ZACS and not Riful is a mystery right now but she is shown in a full panel with half claymore and half awaken state very similar to partial awakening half your body - which indicate a failed effort to revert back to normal as Beth can no longer maintain full soul link to force Alicia to revert back and nor can Alicia revert back by herself. If a piece of her 'soul' is back in her and another half still within Beth, and the link is still functioning in a limited capacity, Alicia may share with Beth the same desire but neither lack the ability to fully direct the half-awakened state Alicia is in. So in a sense, she is like Clare in Pieta. The mind is there but can't fully control the body. The difference is however, only half her mind is there and whatever the parasite is doing to Beth has influence over Alicia through the damaged soul link.

[Shiek927]

Originally Posted by Seska

So in short, no one knows what next happen to Riful?

Seems likes the Writer has accomplish his mission

Seska.....don't take this personally, but can you change your avatar?

I have to look twice to make sure you're not Jonova

----

Bess?

Oh god, Cnet has corrupted you Teapot

[Celestial Teapot]

Originally Posted by Shiek927

Seska.....don't take this personally, but can you change your avatar?

I have to look twice to make sure you're not Jonova

----

Bess?

Oh god, Cnet has corrupted you Teapot

One of my good friends is named Beth ... I'm quite the sloppy typer, and I don't need spillover from things meant for Beth here. =D


So, I go with Bess. Plus, Bess is better, imo.

[Shiek927]

Originally Posted by Celestial Teapot

So, I go with Bess. Plus, Bess is better, imo.

At least Beth is an actual name though

[Celestial Teapot]

Originally Posted by Shiek927

At least Beth is an actual name though

Bess is a name!


http://blogs.palmbeachpost.com/theda...y-off-my-back/

[Shiek927]

Originally Posted by Celestial Teapot

Bess is a name!


http://blogs.palmbeachpost.com/theda...y-off-my-back/

XDXDXD, I stand corrected

(Even though it's a last name )

[Celestial Teapot]

Originally Posted by Shiek927

XDXDXD, I stand corrected

(Even though it's a last name )

Number 2 Beth Bess-Zema!

[Seska]

Originally Posted by Shiek927

Seska.....don't take this personally, but can you change your avatar?

I have to look twice to make sure you're not Jonova

Nope,

But i just curious what will happen next. Now where will be the focus next Month? Alicia and Beth fight? Perhaps Miria come to the rescue. because Galatea sensed this from far away?

How knows. But don't forget. We already lost Irene Nr.3, that gave Claire the right arm. We wanted her to be alive. Oh wait...

if Claire has now the old memories of Nr.5 .... Claire should know now, what happen to her? (joke)

[Gangsta Spanksta]

Originally Posted by Celestial Teapot

Bess is a name!


http://blogs.palmbeachpost.com/theda...y-off-my-back/

But it is a doggy name

<--that is bess.

http://images.google.com/images?hl=e...-8&sa=N&tab=wi

[Gangsta Spanksta]

Originally Posted by MisterJB

You are not understading my point. I'm not saying Alicia is attacking everything in sigth, I'm saying that Alicia didn't forget her main mission, to kill Riful, and the AFs were simply getting in her way. I expect her next chapter to attack Riful and the figth to be interrupted by the Beth Kitty.

That doesn't even make sense. How come the ZACS weren't in the way when Alicia first attacked Riful? I fail to see how they are not in the way one moment and then in the way the next. XD

[MisterJB]

Originally Posted by Gangsta Spanksta

Telling someone you want to be their friends, praising that person to others, are not signs of liking someone? Sure Riful has mental issues in how she views things, but that doesn't mean that in her own way that she didn't like the three Claymores she let free in the Witch's Maw. All I know is that Riful's mood soured after Clare betrayed her and Renee suffered the consequences of Clare's betrayal.

Of course, the word "friends" has a different meaning to Riful. It's more like "subordinates". Her way of making friends is to force people into obeying her. Not sure if you could call that a friend.
The part that we disagree the most is that you believe that Riful used to be...innocent? Is that a good word?
I always tought that her whole "sweet little girl" is no more than a fachade and the way she treats her prisioners proves that to me.

I assume she could have liked Clare. In her own twisted and psycho way.

uh... The org sent the ZACS and Alicia to attack Riful. Talking about the ZACS not having Alicia's permision, and trying to paint her as a fair fighter, unlike Riful who used Dauf is purely and absolutely absurd, sorry.

Not trying to make Alicia as a honorable figther. However, Rimuto said that the AF's function was only to find Riful. I never heard Alicia or anyone telling the AFs to attack Riful. It's more than we can say from Dauf.

You are assuming that Alicia is coming back as a Claymore. I think she is going to be either partially awakened, or fully awakened. Without Beth to control her, Alicia maybe a liability to the org. And did you just goodwin Riful

But that fact is that the Org is everything that the Twins have. The more logic move for Beth is to make Alicia go back to human form and tell her to return to the Org.
The Twins don't know is partially Awakening. Not even the Org does. If Beth makes Alicia go back to human, she is off the hook in her mind.

Not too sure what goodwin Riful is.

There was nothing wrong with that speculation (not theory), and to say how well it worked out is just trolling. It was good speculation, because if used, it could add something to the story that is worthwhile and would increase the chances of the manger lasting longer. I still think that Yagi might use that path, because it is good writing, IMO, and I think he may have just switched Raciella with Alicia, because Raciella would've been too obvious for his tastes.

It's true that it's good writing. However, it's has been done before with Isley and Priscilla. It's basically an AO, Riful, getting a very powerful subordinate/companion/friend/lover.

Yagi did that already and he doesn't recycle old ideas.

Originally Posted by Gangsta Spanksta

That doesn't even make sense. How come the ZACS weren't in the way when Alicia first attacked Riful? I fail to see how they are not in the way one moment and then in the way the next. XD

Alicia is clearly not at 100%. She is probrably confused and her mind is between the Claymore state and the Awakened state. All that she has is the Org's orders and that is probrably the only thing she can think of rigth now. The Abyssal Feeders were attacking her prey, Alicia killed them.

That's how I'm understanding the whole situation.

[Gangsta Spanksta]

Originally Posted by MisterJB

Of course, the word "friends" has a different meaning to Riful. It's more like "subordinates". Her way of making friends is to force people into obeying her. Not sure if you could call that a friend. The part that we disagree the most is that you believe that Riful used to be...innocent? Is that a good word? I always tought that her whole "sweet little girl" is no more than a fachade and the way she treats her prisioners proves that to me.

I assume she could have liked Clare. In her own twisted and psycho way.

Awakened Beings are very self centered beings, much the same way as children can be. If you look at Riful's relationship with Dauf, well, she obviously proved in this chapter that she cares for him, but she treats him both as a subordinate and as an idiot, as was seen when Dauf awakened in her base, and she was upset at him for being an idiot again and grabbed him by the throat with her hair. So it is possible for Riful to like you while at the same time expecting you to do everything she says, because while she may like you, chances are that she is more concerned with her own feelings than yours. But then again, it seems like all Awakened being seem to have some form of mental issue.

Not trying to make Alicia as a honorable figther. However, Rimuto said that the AF's function was only to find Riful. I never heard Alicia or anyone telling the AFs to attack Riful. It's more than we can say from Dauf.

Saying that this time the ZACS are only going to be used to find Riful, does not mean that he doesn't expect the ZACS not to attack Riful. You can make that kind of comment when you don't think the ZACS stand a chance against riful, when you used them just as pawns, a minor sacrafice, while the real person who is going to kill Riful comes. In fact, how would the org get the ZACS not to attack once they find Riful?

But that fact is that the Org is everything that the Twins have. The more logic move for Beth is to make Alicia go back to human form and tell her to return to the Org.
The Twins don't know is partially Awakening. Not even the Org does. If Beth makes Alicia go back to human, she is off the hook in her mind.

perhaps, Beth doesn't think she can return Alicia back to Claymore.

Not too sure what goodwin Riful is.

Godwin's Law (also known as Godwin's Rule of Nazi Analogies)[1] is a humorous observation made by Mike Godwin in 1990 which has become an Internet adage. It states: "As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches

It's true that it's good writing. However, it's has been done before with Isley and Priscilla. It's basically an AO, Riful, getting a very powerful subordinate/companion/friend/lover.

Yagi did that already and he doesn't recycle old ideas.

The Parent/Child relationship is a constant theme in this Manga. It was done way before Isley and Priscilla, before Raki and Priscilla, before Clare and Raki. it started with Teresa and Clare and keeps showing up. It is another opportunity to bring up a constant theme at a different angle.

Alicia is clearly not at 100%. She is probrably confused and her mind is between the Claymore state and the Awakened state. All that she has is the Org's orders and that is probrably the only thing she can think of rigth now. The Abyssal Feeders were attacking her prey, Alicia killed them.

That's how I'm understanding the whole situation.

I just doesn't seem to add much to the story at all. Why prolong Riful's death then? Why make it a point to show the reader that Alicia and Beth are synced? It would be Beth who is confused and not Alicia, or beth that is going berserk and not Alicia.

[Cyclone]

Originally Posted by Shiek927

Well well well....I don't know what to say, but Riful is actually getting a resurgence lately :O

Just last chapter, we were all prepared for her to die, but now it's like everybody's suddenly a fan of hers

Strange... I don't recollect being part of that "everyone" last chapter....
And I've also liked Riful since she was introduced (best arc in the series so far).

Originally Posted by Celestial Teapot

Number 2 Beth Bess-Zema!

ahem.... ZEMU!
Zemu or Zem - not Zema.
In a very rare case of dyslexia for him, the scanlator read マ(MA) instead of ム(MU).

[romari]

The Raeth (Raciela + Beth) is borning lol...wonders what will be next....

Btw does anyone know if yagi does anything else apart from drawing the lineart?
I wonder if he just draws the lineart in a couple of days then his slaves do all the hard work for the rest of the month while yagi goes drinking sake lol

[MisterJB]

Originally Posted by Gangsta Spanksta

Awakened Beings are very self centered beings, much the same way as children can be. If you look at Riful's relationship with Dauf, well, she obviously proved in this chapter that she cares for him, but she treats him both as a subordinate and as an idiot, as was seen when Dauf awakened in her base, and she was upset at him for being an idiot again and grabbed him by the throat with her hair. So it is possible for Riful to like you while at the same time expecting you to do everything she says, because while she may like you, chances are that she is more concerned with her own feelings than yours. But then again, it seems like all Awakened being seem to have some form of mental issue.

Man, I really don't want to get into an Riful's morality debate. Don't feel like getting dirt.
Anyway, I remember you claiming that Riful expected Clare to join her at the end of their second meeting. However, that is false. Riful said that she expected Clare to respond in the negative.

Saying that this time the ZACS are only going to be used to find Riful, does not mean that he doesn't expect the ZACS not to attack Riful. You can make that kind of comment when you don't think the ZACS stand a chance against riful, when you used them just as pawns, a minor sacrafice, while the real person who is going to kill Riful comes. In fact, how would the org get the ZACS not to attack once they find Riful?

The Org knows that the AFs wouldn't be so effective against Riful as they were against Isley because they know nothing about her. They probrably didn't even program them to run away.
My point is that Alicia doesn't use the AFs to attack Riful. She does that alone while Riful is using Dauf to create openings that she couldn't create alone.

Godwin's Law (also known as Godwin's Rule of Nazi Analogies)[1] is a humorous observation made by Mike Godwin in 1990 which has become an Internet adage. It states: "As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches

I see. Anyway, my point is that Alicia and Beth were told from a very young age that the ABs are evil and that they need to be eliminated. I just can't believe that just because one AB shows compassion (if you can call it that) towards another AB, they will change their entire mentalities.

The Parent/Child relationship is a constant theme in this Manga. It was done way before Isley and Priscilla, before Raki and Priscilla, before Clare and Raki. it started with Teresa and Clare and keeps showing up. It is another opportunity to bring up a constant theme at a different angle.

True, true. However, Clare/Raki was purposedly supposed to mirror Teresa/Clare and Raki/Priscilla is Raki's way of becoming more like Clare.

However, Riful/Alicia just seems too similar to Priscilla/Isley. One Abyssal takes care of a more powerful Awakened Being and uses her to further his own goals. It's more of the same and Yagi is more creative than that.
Also, Teresa/Priscilla/Clare/Raki were all connected and all of them met at some point of the history (except for Raki/Teresa, of course). I don't see any connection between Alicia and Isley & Priscilla

I just doesn't seem to add much to the story at all. Why prolong Riful's death then? Why make it a point to show the reader that Alicia and Beth are synced? It would be Beth who is confused and not Alicia, or beth that is going berserk and not Alicia.

That still bugs me. You claim that Beth is the confused one. So, were is Alicia in the middle of all of this? Asleep inside Beth?
I believe that Alicia makes her own decisions and that Beth's role is to keep her sister's soul on the human side. Nothing else.
And I suposse that, since this is a Soul-link, it's pretty normal for Alicia to mirror her sister's expressions. Their souls are connected, after all.

As for Riful, maybe to give her more corny scenes with Dauf and more their deaths more emotional. I still don't buy how she escaped from Alicia and the AFs after Raciella sent her Kitties.

Originally Posted by Shiek927

Just last chapter, we were all prepared for her to die, but now it's like everybody's suddenly a fan of hers

HEY. Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey. Go easy with "everybody is fan of of Riful".