Madoka Magica - Magic, Contracts, and stuff. Yeah, stuff. Timey wimey stuff.

[AuraTwilight]

I think that the Incubators have the following emotions at a low-level:

"Pleased"
Disappointed
Pride
Schadenfreude

The first two I can buy, but Kyubey never experienced arrogance or personal pleasure at the suffering of others.

Though finding things agreeable or disagreeable aren't really emotions. We've already built robots that can make these responses unprompted.

So if one rejects her own wish, the person will not have magic anymore.

Is it possible to wish: I wish I wasn't a witch.

Are you referencing when Kyoko rejected her illusion abilities? Technically she still has them, and actively uses other magics, but she subconsciously locked up that ability because it's directly associated with the magic that doomed her family. It seems she subconsciously uses it in scenes like when she confesses her backstory to Sayaka in the anime.

As for "I wish I wouldn't become a Witch", I had a roleplay character who made such a wish in an attempt to game the system.

When her Grief Seed filled up, it emptied back out...along with all her memories. All the negative energy that would've been her wish ended up being Familiars.

And when those Familiars get big enough to become a Witch, they instead exploded into other Familiars, and it quickly got out of control. To her credit, she figured out how to command them to an extent. She could have them attack other Witches and shit, but she can't actually prevent them from attacking at all; they have to kill something. And if she tries to restrain them, they get more aggressive.

Not that this has any bearing on canon. Just food for thought. The player of Kyubey was highly amused by my ingenuity with that subplot, and it sounds like it fits with the Puella Magi-verse enough to be the appropriate response of that wish, aside from just not having a contract happen period.

[Laevatein]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I think that the Incubators have the following emotions at a low-level:

"Pleased"
Disappointed
Pride
Schadenfreude

You forgot smug.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by AuraTwilight

The first two I can buy, but Kyubey never experienced arrogance or personal pleasure at the suffering of others.

I disagree. Kyubey's words to Homura at the end of Episode 9 gave me a definite impression of gloating.

Kyubey's words at the end of Episode 8 (which he basically says just to himself and/or the viewing audience) also strike me as him subtly poking fun at Sayaka and other Puella Magi that turn into witches.

Like Laevatein wrote, there's a definite "smugness" there, imo. But I think it's most accurate to break this down into pride and schadenfreude.


Honestly, I'm largely with ChainLegacy. I think that a truly emotionless alien race would have trouble simply getting out of bed in the morning, let alone troubling themselves over something like entropy.

I don't think that Kyubey was lying in what he said to Madoka et al. I think that the Incubators really do have very little emotion relative to humans, so Kyubey was simply engaging in a tiny bit of exaggeration. Because I do think the Incubators have some emotion.

[maximilianjenus]

Originally Posted by AuraTwilight

Look at smaller details; whether or not Sayaka contracts in the earlier timelines, Kyouko's appearance, whether or not Octavia has Hitomi-based familiars or if they meet certain Witches...

After all, according to Homura, Walpurgis' point of appearance is a statistical probability to her...meaning that sometimes it shows up somewhere ELSE, but on average it has a preferred spot. How could SHE influence that?

And if we accept other things like manga and the PSP game, we've got stuff like Oriko, Kirika, and Yuma sometimes showing up.

Agreed, that is part of a parallel universe mechanic, instead of a simple time reset.

Originally Posted by bhl88

So if one rejects her own wish, the person will not have magic anymore.

Is it possible to wish: I wish I wasn't a witch.

Spoiler for kazumi magica ending:

It seems to be possible, like wishing to become human.

[KoiYuki]

Originally Posted by AuraTwilight

Look at smaller details; whether or not Sayaka contracts in the earlier timelines, Kyouko's appearance, whether or not Octavia has Hitomi-based familiars or if they meet certain Witches...

After all, according to Homura, Walpurgis' point of appearance is a statistical probability to her...meaning that sometimes it shows up somewhere ELSE, but on average it has a preferred spot. How could SHE influence that?

And if we accept other things like manga and the PSP game, we've got stuff like Oriko, Kirika, and Yuma sometimes showing up.

Well again, those all technically had a different Homura involved, so of course they're different (including the Oriko timeline. Since Homura had looped, Madoka became stronger, so Oriko saw what Madoka would become). Since Homura and Madoka are always different from the get-go, it seems like it all has to do with Homura after all. Homura's resets also increase Kyuubey's interest in Madoka's power, so the other girls getting involved is also more likely as he seeks her out.

Also, the "statistics" comment could've been her lazy way of saying "that's where it always is, I don't want to explain why I know that to you". We don't really have evidence Walpurgis shows up somewhere else at all.

[Triple_R]

There's a particular hypothetical/question I wanted to pose, and this thread struck me as a good one to pose it on.

Suppose a 14 year old Puella Magi is brought, by her parents, to the Doctor for a thorough medical examination. Would the Doctor be able to find anything strange about her body?

I ask, for the following reason: We know from Kyubey that the soul is extracted from the Puella Magi's body in order to somehow make it tougher and more resilient against damage (at least that's the impression I took from Kyubey's words).

That being the case, is this bodily change to the Puella Magi perceptible to medical professionals? Is it something that would "show up" under a X-Ray, say? Or maybe under a microscope?

Just curious to get people's thoughts here.

[KoiYuki]

I don't think it would.. I think all that happens with them is that they don't feel much pain, heal faster, and can probably bleed more. Good question though!

[bhl88]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

There's a particular hypothetical/question I wanted to pose, and this thread struck me as a good one to pose it on.

Suppose a 14 year old Puella Magi is brought, by her parents, to the Doctor for a thorough medical examination. Would the Doctor be able to find anything strange about her body?

I ask, for the following reason: We know from Kyubey that the soul is extracted from the Puella Magi's body in order to somehow make it tougher and more resilient against damage (at least that's the impression I took from Kyubey's words).

That being the case, is this bodily change to the Puella Magi perceptible to medical professionals? Is it something that would "show up" under a X-Ray, say? Or maybe under a microscope?

Just curious to get people's thoughts here.

In a Nanoha fic I remembered, Mami was examined only to give the conclusion that all her organs are working... except that her brain is dead.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by KoiYuki

I don't think it would.. I think all that happens with them is that they don't feel much pain, heal faster, and can probably bleed more. Good question though!

Thanks!

Originally Posted by bhl88

In a Nanoha fic I remembered, Mami was examined only to give the conclusion that all her organs are working... except that her brain is dead.

That's interesting. Rather ironic given how Mami died in the anime, though.

Still, it makes sense.

The brain being "the seat of the soul" makes sense. So if you take the soul out, I could see it leaving a dead brain. The Soul Gem now essentially controls the body's systems like the brain normally would.

[AuraTwilight]

Suppose a 14 year old Puella Magi is brought, by her parents, to the Doctor for a thorough medical examination. Would the Doctor be able to find anything strange about her body?

I ask, for the following reason: We know from Kyubey that the soul is extracted from the Puella Magi's body in order to somehow make it tougher and more resilient against damage (at least that's the impression I took from Kyubey's words).

That being the case, is this bodily change to the Puella Magi perceptible to medical professionals? Is it something that would "show up" under a X-Ray, say? Or maybe under a microscope?

There would probably be no difference given that every change is done entirely through magic. I'd include brain activity in that, considering that the soul still probably uses the brain as an intermediary, just with some sort of 'lag', according to Kyubey depending on how much the soul distances itself.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by AuraTwilight

There would probably be no difference given that every change is done entirely through magic. I'd include brain activity in that, considering that the soul still probably uses the brain as an intermediary, just with some sort of 'lag', according to Kyubey depending on how much the soul distances itself.

You could very well be right here. Otherwise, I think a Puella Magi probably would have been "found out" during a medical exam at some point.

[ChainLegacy]

Originally Posted by AuraTwilight

In humans, yea. We can't assume neuropsychology works in a different sentient species.

While I do agree with you on this point, we're dealing with a being that is probably artificially created considering that Kyubey is following a program and inhabits thousands of bodies at once in a hive mind.

It's entirely possible, though, that their race just believes they have no emotion and culturally suppress it, considering that anyone who gets emotional is locked up as mentally ill. It'd be similar to how Victorian mankind insisted that they were a higher order of beings from other animals on a spiritual and biological level.

True that we can't assume another species has emotion as a prerequisite for intelligence. It's actually an interesting question philosophically beyond the scope of an anime series. Could an alien species exist seemingly with a very similar mode of intelligence to humanity that Kyubey seems to display, without emotion? I'd surmise that convergent evolution would make both species emotional on some level, but perhaps in different ways. Of course, I can picture a zerg (Starcraft) type species that possesses vast intelligence without emotion, though Kyubey gave me the impression of a human-like reasoning system.

I do fancy your cultural explanation, however. That would, ironically, make their species even more human-like.

[bhl88]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

You could very well be right here. Otherwise, I think a Puella Magi probably would have been "found out" during a medical exam at some point.

I think a school medical exam wouldn't cut it... A CAT scan would find the abnormality if they scan a Puella Magi