Fate/Zero - Episode 4 Discussion / Poll

[Allium]

Originally Posted by Endless Twilight

This wasn't the kind of fight that a Kara no Kyoukai-esque epic battle music would really suit. It was much too carefully planned out and deliberate for that, hence the complete lack of music at times.

I thought that way too, but being a Kajiura fan, I was probably just too eager to hear something, catch some more of what she's putting in F/Z. (Though the one that played during Rider's interrupting Saber and Lancer kinda told it all ).

[Forsaken_Infinity]

Originally Posted by Reckoner

I stopped taking this seriously right there.

In any case, you're free to dislike Fate/Zero, but it's adapting the story pretty damn well I'd have to say. Maybe you just prefer reading over watching things?

???

Have you even watched the most recent episodes of C3? It's fights are really well done. The post I quoted implied that there wasn't a fight sequence comparable to the one in fate in terms of "detail" that I took to mean visual detail (animation, motion, camera angles, lighting and the like - and quite honestly, the statement implies visual detail) and I refuted it with whatever most recent fight I had seen that was good that came off the top of my head. The specific show had nothing to do with it. His statement was that he had never seen anything as good, I told him he could start with another anime airing this season that I find has just as good, if not better, fights. He could start with KnK for all I care. Whether or not he would find them good wouldn't matter either. It was just a there exists something statement to suggest that his there exists none statement could easily be rectified if he tried.

Originally Posted by Klashikari

I'm starting to wonder what are your "expectations".
I can understand how this episode can feel "slow" due to the fact we only get to where Rider shows up in the party, and few far away stills.
But with all due respect, comparing with C3 is really something out of the blue. For one, the battles are completely different: C3 was focused on the very raw and savage portion of a certain character, whereas in Zero, both Lancer and Saber are shown as proud warriors.
Not only it was a battle settled by tactics, trying to figuring out the enemy's move/range of ability, but it was something else than a mere battle: a -duel-. Frankly speaking, you wouldn't expect a frenzy battle with these two fellows complementing each other as if they wanted each other's photograph.

Therefore, expecting a brawling battle, at this stage, with these 2 servants is really not appropriate. Also, C3, while being consistent, use a lot of tricks to make the animation "fast paced", whereas Zero's battle was way more focused on the details (environmental damage, sparks, impacts, manoeuvres)... not really the same as rashly swinging a Waas as if it was a golf club.

C3 scene wasn't bad at all, but mentioning it as a better melee combat than this one is difficult to comprehend, especially it was the thorough exposition of Lancer and Saber approach.

The first part of my post there is not at all connected to the second part. The comment about C3 wasn't a comparison between two shows but just the visual detail of the fights. C3's fights are awesome to look at just as much as this fight between Lancer and Saber was all I meant to say. It could have been the fight between Saya and Tadayoshi or any other well done fight. As for my expectations, the fight between Saber and Lancer wasn't bad at all but I did expect better angles, crispier movement and such. It's not the graphics portion of the anime that I have major qualms about. It's the omission of small details in the story that makes the characters lose their appeal. I have already mentioned how much I despised the omission of interaction between Kiritsugu and Irisviel. The others have suffered too, but not as jarringly much. I only hope that particular interaction between Oops, almost blabbered onto a spoiler get cut.

I think I do apparently like reading stuff more than watching - especially if the detail is the charm to them. And well, seems I also had impossible-to-fulfill expectations. I don't dislike the show (except at that moment when I was just done watching episode 3 - I was almost crying >_>) by any means either. And I am probably as excited for next episode as anyone, if not more too.

[Iby]

Originally Posted by HandofFate

is "Gae" a surname for something?

The F/Z Lancer has two spears with "Gae" in its name, and the F/SN Lancer has a Gae Blog.

How many spears did Gae make? lol.
Also, Sabre seems to be a fan of getting hit by them.

Waver's expression when Rider just yells out his identity was great, but I liked Lancer's reaction to it as well.

Originally Posted by Mercurius.H

Gae in old celtic means spear I guess

Yeah, just read the article here.

[playmaker2k]

I really enjoy watching the Saber/Lancer match up. It had everything that I like in a good action sequence, like trading blows with each other and sizing each other up, and thinking up real time strategies to expose their opponent.

If that wasn't enough, we get a chance to see Saber showing some traditional stances and movements that a knight would typically use to get around things.

An example would be when Lancer disables Saber's left hand. When she got hit, she immediately rolled away to the side. It wasn't the flashiest thing, but that's not the point.

A roll like that isn't something you would typically see in an anime. You would only find that kind of detail in a live action movie or a show like Game of Thrones. It's refreshing to see them incorporate it in the swordplay.

One of my favorite moments in the episode is when Iskandar comes out to tell his rivals his real name and class. I'm not gonna lie, that was a boss move on his part.

[Sheba]

As for people complaining about Fate zero's fighting, compared to C3's, I really would not like to see their face when they watch a duel in a Akira Kurosawa movie or a western by Sergio Leone. Thanksfully, I have grown up watching the both of the two worlds, the slow-paced calculated style seen in spaghetti westerns or old school samurai movies, and the frantic brawl a la Jackie Chan. And respect both of them for what they tries to convey. In my opinion, Zero Lancer vs Saber is closer to Bruce Lee vs Chuck Norris, able to match the speedy fighting with the calmer moments, and random talking people instead of that kitten.

[Tiresias]

Well it seems my statement got misunderstood. When I mentioned about detail I'm talking about things like the ability of audiences to actually see the motions instead of just "oooh, look here, I'm behind you" flashsteps, properly drawn footwork, weapon-wielding stances, and fights were the combatants actually think and plan instead of just "MWAHAHAHA, I'll just overpower you with my super moves!"

And yes, I've seen Kara no Kyoukai. It's also undoubtedly awesome there, but I think ufotable improved themselves here.

And I've also seen C3, and what I've seen...just isn't my cup of tea. Every people has their own preference, I guess. But bottom line is that my point still stands; In My Opinion Fate/Zero has the best fighting animation.

And I think since Fate/Zero has showed us just about all the major points to make an initial impression - background detail, exposition handling, music, and animation - now would be the time for viewers to reevaluate whether they're gonna continue following this series.

If the way FZ handled the four points is to your liking, then continue. But if you dislike it, well...chances are your opinion on it won't improve. And that's fine - everyone has their own taste. I've also been on the other side of the fence this season, since many people seemed to like GC while I consider it a waste of time, so I just stopped watching it - I didn't see what I like there and has no interest to torture myself. If people wants to stop watching FZ for similar reasons, it's their right.

As for me? Well, I've seen my share of other animes this season, and let's just say that Fate/Zero is the only show I won't be dropping, and no other people's opinion or suggestion is going to change that.

Cheers.

[Horse]

The animation during the fight was bloody great - there was a fuckton of movement there. I really don't understand HOW anyone can complain about the actual animation during the fight - just say you didn't enjoy how "slow" it was/looked and that's fine. It's like most people don't get impressed with anything but balls out GURREN LAGANN direction or off-model high motion BIRDY DECODE:02 animation all of a sudden. (Warning: I'm not hating here! I loved both shows.) This episode's fight felt deliciously HEAVY (Saber's a fucking knight in an armour with a huge sword) and SRSBSNS (has its effect on participants). ufotable, GJ.

tldr: I loved the fight but hated all the inner monologues during it. I hope it was just a single neccesity to introduce Noble Phantasms for newcomers.

Kajiura's score continues to be very competent and appropriately cinematic but still has not displayed anything that would make me go WOWZERS.

[fertygo]

The fight is just demonstration of high level sakuga, n God didn't you notice the friggin detail on each motion? is just unreal.
You can bash this distance shoot crap that they give, but no way you're right if thinking the fight sequence is bad, just ask anyone that know about sakuga. They got the fundamental right.

[Aqua Knight]

I think that we can all agree that both Lancers are gar and that's all.
I really like Lancers in both stories as nobody speaks " OMG! It's Lancer, one of the strongest classes!" like everyone does with Saber, while Lancers silently kick some good ass and have their moments of glory.

Also wielding lances instead of swords makes them more interesting to watch.

[Geburah]

Well, he was monitoring that place since it was the best place to observe, more like Assassin got overconfident and didnt expect anyone else besides him to lurk in the shadows

[DragoZERO]

Originally Posted by Geburah

Well, he was monitoring that place since it was the best place to observe, more like Assassin got overconfident and didnt expect anyone else besides him to lurk in the shadows

He hasn't realized that his mask is like a giant reflector on a bicycle.

[Fome]

Originally Posted by DragoZERO

He hasn't realized that his mask is like a giant reflector on a bicycle.

Or that it's a dead giveaway to his identity *facepalms*

[GuidoHunter_Toki]

Originally Posted by DragoZERO

He hasn't realized that his mask is like a giant reflector on a bicycle.

Super Stealthy



I see you...

[playmaker2k]

^ This.

Apparently, Assassin left his Batman stealth book at home. It also explains why he got demolished by Gil.

[DragoZERO]

Originally Posted by playmaker2k

^ This.

Apparently, Assassin left his Batman stealth book at home. It also explains why he got demolished by Gil.

Actually that was all staged by Kirei and Tokiomi.

Them Tohsaka's are awfully tricky.

[Proto]

Can't see why people don't like Zero Lancer Gae Dearg. It's a hack on the same league as Rule Breaker, that's for sure. Aw well.

[Kokukirin]

Originally Posted by Proto

Can't see why people don't like Zero Lancer Gae Dearg. It's a hack on the same league as Rule Breaker, that's for sure. Aw well.

Except it didn't break Saber's contract with Emiya. Its function is somewhat similar to Rule Breaker, but much more limited.

[fertygo]

Zero's Lancer NP awfully underestimated by you guys, anti-magic and weapon that cause wound that never heal (and used by warrior with highest skill, u can't imagine fight with him without got some damage) in long-battle that full of magic/supernatural power?
That is extreme advantage.

[ProfileOF]

Hmm...
Though Zero Lancer is a handsome guy and he is obviously good at posing...
His general ability is terrible...Except for assassin, I don't think he can match any other servant in this war. His NPs are too much limited.

[giorno]

Originally Posted by Fome

Or that it's a dead giveaway to his identity *facepalms*

doesn't matter. everyone knows that assassin is a member of the assassin sect(since the class itself is the catalyst, only members of the assassins sect can be summoned in that class) and on the other hand, knowing the specific indentity of every specific assassin is pretty much impossible since they were not famous heroes...