Claymore Chapter 89

[Newhope]

The way I see the AEs is that they aren't 11 separate monsters but 11 parts of a single entity and killing 1 of them is just like cutting off the arm or leg of any other AB.

@synyster
None of the ZCs regenerated after they lost their heads.

[Vulcannis]

I'm not sure why so many people think Isley's fight with Helen was illogical. He was ticked off, and obviously thought they were wimps and easily dealt with. Had his first target been almost anyone but Deneve they would have been dead instantly. He didn't count on Helen being good enough to fight with him for a bit, nor that he'd lose big chunks of his body to her that he'd then have to waste precious yoki regenerating. That's why he was so frustrated and ticked off instead of his previous calm. He knew he didn't have time or yoki to waste.

I don't see why it's unrealistic that the BZACS could kill him. They've been fighting for quite a while, and the chapter quite clearly states how it's impossible for Isley to ever completely wipe them out. There's no way he could follow them back to the Org, they'd simply march Alicia out and kill him since he'd still be weak from the fight with the BZACS. The whole thing reminds me of hunting bears with dogs actually. The hunter is pretty much guaranteed to lose some dogs, but eventually the bear will succumb to exhaustion and numbers. I think the group-think thing was unnecessary though.

I do think it's a bit cheap. But so? This is Claymore, not shonen crap story #42.

[aperfectcircle]

Isley's internal monologue overshadowed the other badass moment he had:

"I am forced to resort to this... *makes a claymore-type weapon*"

Something about that really struck a chord. It's as if he felt that was his strongest / most capable weapon that, yet, he has always been reluctant to take out, maybe out of a desire to dissociate himself with his prior life as a Claymore?

Just a random thought. Really liked this chapter even though Isley was amongst my favorite characters.

[zato_1one]

Originally Posted by iLney

Oh my bad. Creating new AEs with the updated mind of the fallen ones don't count, right?

What's next? Clare forced the Org to remake Teresa?

Again. They couldn't be revived. But new one can learn the knowledge base from older one. I know this sounds strange. I hope that it has further explanation about synchronizing mind in the future though.

Edit: The way I see them is like a swarm. They work in group and can communicate with each other using some internal wavelength.

Originally Posted by iLney

Hah. Something like "they only crave for Isley's flesh, nothing else" surely doesn't count!

No. It means that they can be controlled to target only Isley.

[SagaraSouske]

I suspect Yagi sensai will save the details of the seven years of Isley's past in an extra chapter some time down the line that will explain how he changed along with Raki and Pris and then how he was hunted down by ZACS. It feels sudden right now because we have a 7 year gap between the old Isley and the Isley that died.

There is prob some type of control mechanism over the ZACS in the hands of the Org. They remind me of Zerg from Starcraft. Constantly adapt and incorporate new things they learned from battle and morph/improve into a stronger creature.

The ZACS do have an apparent tactic pieced together between Dietre and Isley's words. They first attack their target and retreat before getting totally wiped out, shared their experience with newly created ZACS. Once properly reinforced, they assault their prey again and retreat again after certain number of their force is depleted. After each assault, they adapt to their prey's attacks and tactics and become harder and harder to kill while sharing all that with any newly created ZACS assigned to reinforce them. Repeat this process enough times, they will eventually evolve and improve enough to overwhelm their prey. It is a very good tactic against a solo prey since the only chance the target has is to wipe out all of them in the first assault and prevent them to learn and adapt then share the knowledge. Since it is built into their strategy to retreat before getting wiped out each assault, as long as 1 ZACS manage to survive, it begins the snow ball process where eventually the result becomes obvious. It isn't hard for ZACS to disperse and have a few survive if they start running early enough in the first fight since their target would not know their ability to adapt until a few more encounters down the road. By then, it may be too late for the target to wipe all of them out since they always retreat at certain point and become harder to kill.

However, this tactic is far less useful against a prey that has help. The odds of them getting wiped out on early assaults would be much higher and adapting to multiple fighting styles and techniques will take longer/harder. Also since, they hunt by smell, they will need flesh of a specific target to hunt him or her. Otherwise they will prob only fight when attacked and ignore those that are not their prey. 7 G would fare far better against them then Isley did since they have several advantages: 7 different fighting style/7 target, none of them are ZACS prey, they will all know ZACS tactics and will try to wipe them out and hunt them down and not let them get away in first fight.

[iLney]

So controllable that Dietrich almost pissed in her pants upon encountering them.

[Cyclone]

Originally Posted by Gangsta Spanksta

BTW guys, one thing that I don't like about this chapter, something which I feel is a cop out, is the notion that Cynthia is going to be able to regenerate Helen's eye. I was in dismay when she lost it, but when you are going to do something, do it, and don't go back on it. It took me awhile, but I got over Helen losing the eye, and was looking forward to the eyepatch.

You're missing the plot purpose. The purpose is to get Helen, Deneve and Dietrich to meet Clare's group instead of heading back to Rabona - not to give Helen a fancy new eye patch. The injury is just a device to get the characters to do something they would not do otherwise. Whether the injury becomes permanent or not - we shall see (for all we know, Cynthia might die before Helen ever meets up with her, or it may be too late).

[Child_of_Sierra]

Originally Posted by iLney

So controllable that Dietrich almost pissed in her pants upon encountering them.

Just because they can be controlled (by the Org) does not mean that Dietrich can, thus her fear

[iLney]

Who is the "Org?"

Dietrich doesn't count, sure. I doubt Renee would. How about Alicia and Beth? No? Then Rubel, maybe? Haha.

They are great body guards materials, don't you think?

[Guido]

Originally Posted by aperfectcircle

Isley's internal monologue overshadowed the other badass moment he had:

"I am forced to resort to this... *makes a claymore-type weapon*"

Something about that really struck a chord. It's as if he felt that was his strongest / most capable weapon that, yet, he has always been reluctant to take out, maybe out of a desire to dissociate himself with his prior life as a Claymore?

Just a random thought. Really liked this chapter even though Isley was amongst my favorite characters.

I believe that spawning the sword took both a toll on his youki power and strain on his entire body, which was already hurt and weakened prior to the ZACS' current attack.

[Throne Invader]

Despite Alicia's strength being comparable to an abyssal one, is there any probably weakness in the soul link that Riful might take advantage of? Hmm...........

[Tempest35]

...0.0... AmoreDoll, you've just brought up a good situation...

Alicia and Bess - successful SoulLink

Raphaela and Luciela - non-successful SoulLink - now fused together...

These two sets of sisters are about to meet ...

[Cyclone]

I'm actually beginning to see a new way that the story could progress after this chapter.

Many have speculated that Riful's end is near (myself included) with the introduction of Raciella. But stepping back for a moment...

I still believe that Raciella will have power level of over 9000 just like Pricilla, and she wont realize this until it's too late. But what if Raciella is controllable by Riful anyways?

I fully expect Raciella and Riful to wipe the floor with Alica, Beth, and the ZACSs. But this renders the Organization powerless and leaving 2 powers:
Riful, Raciella and possibly Duff, vs. the good guys.

Riful already promised to "not forget this" concerning Clare's little betrayal. Pricilla will be able to fight Raciella and try to earn her forgiveness. Also, the good guys fighting the Org directly might be difficult - they are humans (sorta) who (sorta almost not really) help people fight youma (ignore the 'that they create' for a minute), and trying to win a war and thus 'forced' into using their questionable means (in some people's eyes at least [not mine]). A monster like Riful might make an easier bad guy.

In another words, I'm starting to suspect that Riful may be the final boss, rather than the Organization.

[yezhanquan]

Well, Riful is definitely boss material. Haven't actually seen her fight in her true form for any extended period of time. Last or not, we'll see.

[Zsych]

I think Riful can also run faster than Isley could. But anyway, I'm surprised, Deneve can't just give her own eye to Helen, and then regenerate a copy

And Isley - alas - did not expect him to fall, certainly not like this. This was a genuinely horrible death.

The story is taking an altogether strange route. The likes of Isley are now defeatable by the Org. There's Raciella, and there's also the whole story about what's outside the island, which I think is now going to come into play more seriously.

[Child_of_Sierra]

Originally Posted by iLney

Who is the "Org?"

They are great body guards materials, don't you think?

Whoever was directly in charge of creating them in the organization would have that "control".

This may range from actually being able to command them or having the means to kill them if they do go rogue. The extent of these are mostly speculation on my part but the chapter did confirm how the AE's retreated whenever 6 or more of their number died. This behavior goes against their natural instinct for Isley's flesh so it was something that their handlers conditioned them to do.

I don't want them for body guards though, the stitches make them look so creepy. Isley, Riful, Ophelia and most previous awakened had that magnificent aura in their forms, AE's remind me of carrion/eva mass production models

[SagaraSouske]

Who is the Org is a good question. Personally I think they are part of a race that is neither human nor Yoma/AB but long lived certainly. Rubel and his side that allied with DoD are of the same race. They controlled/manipulated humans to fight their war for them on the main continent. When one side brought out the DoDs, Org side started to create AB/Claymores with yoma.

I think control is paramount to all of Org's experiments. They would not have created ZACS without some means to control or destroy them before they can become a threat to themselves.

[yogi6807]

Do you think that raciella might be a more complete version of the zacs with the ability to interact with them?

[Gangsta Spanksta]

Originally Posted by Awakened

One of the Mibs might be controlling the ZACS. When we first saw the ZACS there was a leader with eye, we haven't seen that person since.

Good observation.

Originally Posted by Cyclone

You're missing the plot purpose. The purpose is to get Helen, Deneve and Dietrich to meet Clare's group instead of heading back to Rabona - not to give Helen a fancy new eye patch. The injury is just a device to get the characters to do something they would not do otherwise. Whether the injury becomes permanent or not - we shall see (for all we know, Cynthia might die before Helen ever meets up with her, or it may be too late).

I didn't miss the device, but I also figured that Deneve had other reasons to go west, besides Helen's eye. Yagi could've used another excuse too, and I'm not really upset about it, so no worries. I still wonder how Helen and Deneve plan on finding Clare? Follow the path of destruction? I mean they're trying to find stealth bombers. Then again, Yagi might of solved it, since the might decide to head off towards riful's for some odd reason.

[Gangsta Spanksta]

Originally Posted by Tempest35

...0.0... AmoreDoll, you've just brought up a good situation...

Alicia and Bess - successful SoulLink
Raphaela and Luciela - non-successful SoulLink - now fused together...
These two sets of sisters are about to meet ...

I've been pointing that link out for quite some time, and saying that Raphaela and Luciela will wipe the floor with Alicia. The supposed failed creation taking out the org's so-called ultimate weapon.

Originally Posted by Cyclone

I'm actually beginning to see a new way that the story could progress after this chapter.

Many have speculated that Riful's end is near (myself included) with the introduction of Raciella. But stepping back for a moment...

I still believe that Raciella will have power level of over 9000 just like Pricilla, and she wont realize this until it's too late. But what if Raciella is controllable by Riful anyways?

I fully expect Raciella and Riful to wipe the floor with Alica, Beth, and the ZACSs. But this renders the Organization powerless and leaving 2 powers:
Riful, Raciella and possibly Duff, vs. the good guys.

Riful already promised to "not forget this" concerning Clare's little betrayal. Pricilla will be able to fight Raciella and try to earn her forgiveness. Also, the good guys fighting the Org directly might be difficult - they are humans (sorta) who (sorta almost not really) help people fight youma (ignore the 'that they create' for a minute), and trying to win a war and thus 'forced' into using their questionable means (in some people's eyes at least [not mine]). A monster like Riful might make an easier bad guy.

In another words, I'm starting to suspect that Riful may be the final boss, rather than the Organization.

I think that everything is setup for Riful and Raciella to wipe the floor with Alicia and Beth. The org has been shown to be arrogant and shortsighted. Riful has said that she will play Raciella's mother if Raciella is slightly weaker than her, and will kill Raciella if she is stronger before she gains awareness. Raciella will come out appearing to be slightly weaker than Riful, but look who you are talking about: it is Raphaela the master at hiding how powerful she really is. A Number 1 that hid as a Number 5. A hint of yoki that Renee moved through to find super nova hiding on the other side. Raciella will have the honor of killing Dauph, Alicia and Beth, and Riful, in that order -- my prediction. Dauph will probably die like Renee predicted, vaporized by Raciella's awakening. I don't think that Riful will be the ultimate big boss though.