Claymore Chapter 92

[velvet nightmare]

was the new being awakened because of claire? or was it already on its way and claire just happened to step in to meet rafaela

[Gangsta Spanksta]

This is simple to answer. If you read Rene and Rafaela's words about this, Rene touching Raciella's mind had started the awakening process. As for who initiated the soul link, it probably was a subconscious thing on both Clare and Rafaela's part.

[Sleepy Speculator]

Of course the most obvious mistake would be believing that when the the merged form opens it eyes that it 'awakens' in the sense of an awakened being, instead of 'awakening' in the sense of getting up from sleep.

On a lighter note, if this is Teresa's mess then Teresa could force both into a soul link and have both of them blaming each other.

[clarakiss~]

Originally Posted by Shiek927

You should make a fanfiction out of all that

don't you dare give ryus any fic ideas now mister! lol jk jk!

[Vulcannis]

Originally Posted by Gangsta Spanksta

This is simple to answer. If you read Rene and Rafaela's words about this, Rene touching Raciella's mind had started the awakening process. As for who initiated the soul link, it probably was a subconscious thing on both Clare and Rafaela's part.

Whoa, I never even considered that this whole mind world thing was actually a Soul Link between Claire and Raph. Interesting. If true it would mean that Soul Link doesn't require conscious effort or even perfect knowledge of the technique to participate. I wonder if this jives with the description in the data books?

While I doubt it could be forced on every old Claymore/AB, it might have offensive applications. What would happen if it was used this way on Alicia or Beth? It could be used to disrupt or even prevent their linking. Also gives another venue for combat, with perhaps different rules than the real world. While Raph said wounds in the mental world affect the body, the reverse may not be true. So if you're losing a fight in the real world a Soul Link may provide for a second chance. There's also the implication that Beth could never defend herself physically during the link, since Claire didn't seem to have any connection to her physical senses at all.

[khryoleoz]

Originally Posted by Ryus

New Topic I'm kinda confused with how much of Clare's memories Raphaela got, since she knew Clare had trained for 7 years but didn't know about Quicksword... So I can't figure out what this mistake Clare made is, because I can't make any assumption as to how much about Clare Raphaela knew. So how can any of use figure this out... Is the mistake about revenge, the Org, Partually awakening, a missed fact...

It's simple. It's more ass pull, kinda like the AE/Isley thing that now has to be worked into the story. Raph can't know something about Clare's motivations and intention's by some Clarevoyance (pun intended) and yet be surprised that Clare knows Irene's technique.

Unless Yagi was speaking through the character to inform us readers, I don't put much stock in the warning of a character who has failed in two of her most important missions and whose knowledge about situations is so perforated that you can show inconsistencies with it as you did.

[Vulcannis]

Originally Posted by khryoleoz

It's simple. It's more ass pull, kinda like the AE/Isley thing that now has to be worked into the story. Raph can't know something about Clare's motivations and intention's by some Clarevoyance (pun intended) and yet be surprised that Clare knows Irene's technique.

Why not? Rubel certainly understood Claire's goals, and he was their handler. But he shouldn't know about the quicksword.

That said the only thing Raph mentioned was the 7 year time span--while unexpected I don't think it's unbelievable that she could track time while slumbering.

[khryoleoz]

Originally Posted by Vulcannis

Why not? Rubel certainly understood Claire's goals, and he was their handler. But he shouldn't know about the quicksword.

Sure, Raph on occasion beds Rubel. But I'm not sure whether they discuss Clare's affairs as they make like rabbits. I imagine they'd be too busy.

No, I'm only saying that if the premise is that Raph's knowledge is clairvoyance through their mental/spiritual connection, it's inconsistent that arising from that connection she would glean from it Clare's intent and motivation yet remain ignorant about one of the means through which Clare will execute according to her intent.

If we wanna go the route that Raph might have picked it up from Rubel while in bed together, well then that rules out the fab 7's private crusade to topple the Org, because this was decided and agreed upon by all 7 members long after Raph ceased relations with Rubel in order to get nasty with her own sister.

It's not like it can't happen, because it did happen, and that by means of a pull from the hiney.

Originally Posted by Vulcannis

That said the only thing Raph mentioned was the 7 year time span--while unexpected I don't think it's unbelievable that she could track time while slumbering.

Credulity is prerequisite.

[Arturro]

Originally Posted by Vulcannis

That said the only thing Raph mentioned was the 7 year time span--while unexpected I don't think it's unbelievable that she could track time while slumbering.

IMO Raphaela wanted to be killed before awakening, and she needed to unlock Clare hidden potential so she could do the job.

Raphaela in dream sequence was based partially on Clares memories. So it's possible that Raphaela used Clares own memories, hopes and fears. She forced Clare to use quicksword once again. As far as we knows, she didn't used it since Pieta. We assumed, that she was useing only Windcutter cause of yoki cloaking. IMO Clare tried to forget about Quicksword cause of painful memories, QS is same method she used to limbs awakening. And she killed her best friend cause she has awoken. Forgetting about Jean (her death) was required for Clare to go on - Jeans disappearance in Clares dream was a symbolic representation of that.

I don't think that Raphaela forced her yoki into Clare, or merged their souls. She engraved in Clares mind/soul her memories, hopes and feelings. Raphaela indirectly powered up Clare (combat experience, soul link, etc.), relieved Clare from her psychic trauma, and give an equivalent of a black card. I expect Clare will be forced to fight, and kill a new abyssal. Most warriors want to die before awakening, and so did Raphaela. Without powering up Clare wouldn't be able to kill an abyssal being.

[DragoZERO]

I kind of hope Clare is absorbing the two sister's strength or something. She still needs a way to fight Priscilla.

And once again.. these Claymore topics are so active its crazy. I can't keep up with visiting just daily.

[Vulcannis]

Originally Posted by khryoleoz

Sure, Raph on occasion beds Rubel. But I'm not sure whether they discuss Clare's affairs as they make like rabbits. I imagine they'd be too busy.

No, I'm only saying that if the premise is that Raph's knowledge is clairvoyance through their mental/spiritual connection, it's inconsistent that arising from that connection she would glean from it Clare's intent and motivation yet remain ignorant about one of the means through which Clare will execute according to her intent.

If we wanna go the route that Raph might have picked it up from Rubel while in bed together, well then that rules out the fab 7's private crusade to topple the Org, because this was decided and agreed upon by all 7 members long after Raph ceased relations with Rubel in order to get nasty with her own sister.

It's not like it can't happen, because it did happen, and that by means of a pull from the hiney.

Ah, I agree that the premise is wrong and was trying to give evidence supporting that. I'm just confused as to whether you believe the premise is actually what the story is showing or not.

I don't think Raph learned anything through the Soul Link, as nothing she said supports her having any more knowledge than what Rubel could have shared with her about Claire. And that she was surprised by the quicksword, something Rubel wouldn't know about, is I think good support for this theory.

So why do you say "it did happen?"

Originally Posted by khryoleoz

Credulity is prerequisite.

You're willing to accept a merged AO/#1 that can kill people through their mind, share all their memories and emotions, not to mention all the other "normal" AB stuff... but draw the line at having an accurate internal clock?

[khryoleoz]

Who says that I'm willing to accept that merged AO/#1 in the same sense as a hybernating comatose fully cognizant of the precise amount of time that passed within which Clare should have developed outside of Clarevoyant information?

I don't want to argue too deeply about how Raph knows one thing yet does not another because it isn't even clear yet what Raph knows about Clare that she is giving Clare a stern warning, and that from a character whose life is characterized by utter failure.

[Shiek927]

Sure, Raph on occasion beds Rubel. But I'm not sure whether they discuss Clare's affairs as they make like rabbits. I imagine they'd be too busy.

Please, their's children present

[MisterJB]

Originally Posted by Shiek927

Please, their's children present

Don't tell that to Dauf.

[Goofus Maximus]

I do wonder what Clare's "big mistake" is, however. Supposedly, she will find out from the "mind-meld" with Raphaela...

[Gangsta Spanksta]

Originally Posted by Vulcannis

Whoa, I never even considered that this whole mind world thing was actually a Soul Link between Claire and Raph. Interesting. If true it would mean that Soul Link doesn't require conscious effort or even perfect knowledge of the technique to participate. I wonder if this jives with the description in the data books?

While I doubt it could be forced on every old Claymore/AB, it might have offensive applications. What would happen if it was used this way on Alicia or Beth? It could be used to disrupt or even prevent their linking. Also gives another venue for combat, with perhaps different rules than the real world. While Raph said wounds in the mental world affect the body, the reverse may not be true. So if you're losing a fight in the real world a Soul Link may provide for a second chance. There's also the implication that Beth could never defend herself physically during the link, since Claire didn't seem to have any connection to her physical senses at all.

Well if you think about it, Clare gaining all of Rafaela's memories -- experiences -- and feelings is pretty close to the same thing that the ZACS do with shared experiences. Dunno if Rafaela's method has some sort of individuality protection to it. The memories and feelings are most certainly not something Clare wanted. It is also questionable that Rafaela did it for Clare benefit, opposed to her own or Lucinda's.

[Shiek927]

Their really isn't much I can say due to lack of information or say what's already been said; nevertheless, I think we should give Raphaela the benefit of the doubt since we don't know for sure how much she already knew about Claire's life before this chapter, and I'm gonna go on a limb and say, I doubt she learned anything from bedding Rubel

[Gangsta Spanksta]

Originally Posted by Goofus Maximus

I do wonder what Clare's "big mistake" is, however. Supposedly, she will find out from the "mind-meld" with Raphaela...

Plenty of theories here on it already. I think that it is that Clare plans to go all the way to the point of awakening to kill Priscilla.

[Shiek927]

Originally Posted by Gangsta Spanksta

Plenty of theories here on it already. I think that it is that Clare plans to go all the way to the point of awakening to kill Priscilla.

But how does that go with anything we've seen with Raph?


Ughh, I want to take my own advice and give Raph the benefit of the doubt but it is frustrating: How is this her business? How does she know? If she really wanted to help Claire....

I mean, their's an extremely good chance Claire will awaken if she fights, but it's not like Rapahela has ever awakened; the closest person to her who has awakened did so from an accident. It's not like Raph knows anyone who's willingly awakened that we know of. And if Claire does awaken, we can't actually blame her if she goes that far, even if it's wrong.

This chapter is so frustrating , the lack of information and explanations is driving me crazy and it's making me unable to say concise things. Their isn't one single "for-sure" thing, other then Claire's making a mistake.

[Vinak]

Clare's big mistake you ask? It's quite obvious, she kissed Raki. nuff said. She's never been able to recover from such a traumatizing event.

you wonder how Raki stopped Clare from awakening? it's simple. Clare was going through the ecstasy of awakening until Raki gave her a big hug. Anybody would be turned off by that.