2012-10-09, 19:45 | Link #21 | |
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Like it or not, the term "Melodrama" is now widely and overwhelmingly used as a form of criticism. Like it or not, that critical meaning is now what the term "Melodrama" tends to mean in actual use; it's the first thing most people think of when they hear the word "Melodrama". Totoum is right - Trying to change this at this point is a lost cause. But sadly, this thread also makes it clear to me that the goal I put forward in the OP is probably also a lost cause (which is why I'm not going to debate you on Accel World even though I disagree with you on it; it would probably be a vain debate at this point). Well, unless totoum's "Healing Drama" takes off. That's a term I could probably get behind. At least it would differentiate shows like Hyouka and Tari Tari from the darker dramas out there.
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2012-10-09, 20:27 | Link #23 | |
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So yes, based on your rules, it's pointless.
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2012-10-09, 21:47 | Link #24 | |||
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A show like Oniisama E is as pure melodrama as you're likely to find, and it's still a perfectly good show.
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2012-10-09, 23:28 | Link #25 | ||
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In the history of animesuki nobody has ever created a thread asking for "melodrama" in the suggestion section. People in the anime fandom just don't go asking "So,what good melodrama has aired lately",I really wish they did though.That's where Triple_R is coming from. Thad being said I'd like to get back to this: Quote:
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2012-10-10, 04:06 | Link #26 |
Knight Errant
Join Date: Dec 2007
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Age: 35
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Personally, I think a big part of the problem is that we're applying western genre classifications to Japanese shows. The two don't fit. Anime has distinctive genres. In fact, for most shows it would be possible to describe a show as being overwhelmingly one genre. But because we're stuck with using western terms, everything ends up with multiple genres.
As an example, I would use the following genres to classify Japanese shows: 1. Super Robot 2. Real Robot (Mecha shows are a distinct genre, they have conventions that go beyond the presence of giant humanoid robots. There are two varieties, Real and Super) 3. Shonen Action 4. Shonen Sports 5. Shonen Romance 6. Harems 7. Visual Novel 8. Seinen Action 9. Ruthless Game (think Kaiji, Battle Royale, Death Note) 10. Seinen Romance 11. Salaryman 12. Shojo Romance 13. Yuri/Shojo ai 14. Yaoi/shonen ai 15. Magical Girl 16. Mystery 17. Epic Sci-Fi/Space Opera (think LoGH, Banner of the Stars, Yamato) 18. Healing Anime 19. Slice of Life Anime. I could go on, but I don't want this post getting larger. Some genres could realistically be considered subgenres of others. For instance Harem and Visual novel are subgenres of Shonen/seinen romance (which could also be possibly merged for similarity). |
2012-10-10, 06:47 | Link #27 | |||||
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Many people use "Slice of Life" to define this genre, and some people object to that. My impression is that you agree with those who object to that. Some people argue that "Drama" and/or "Coming of Age" should be the terms used for this genre, but there's issues with those ideas as well (especially once we get into your Melodrama/Drama genre separation suggestion, for very good reasons that totoum has already pointed out). Besides, most people don't think of "Coming of Age" as an actual genre, but simply as a narrative element (and there's a very good reason for that, which I alluded to you before). Quote:
And the anime fandom (and society in general, for that matter) has also decided that "melodrama" is a term that is used overwhelmingly as a narrative criticism. That's what I see every day on anime message boards throughout the internet, and on the anime blogosphere. If a solid majority of people use a word a certain way, it doesn't matter much if the current Dictionary agrees with them or not. In time, the Dictionary definition will change to reflect the way the word is now most often used, not the other way around. And speaking personally, I'm fine with "Melodrama" being used as a form of narrative criticism. The word works perfectly well that way. Quote:
Now, I can see where this term might be useful for the study of cinema, so I can see where it might work as a film school term. But again, genre labeling is all about enabling people to find more shows that they're likely to enjoy, which is a bit of a different endeavor than educational analysis for its own sake. And just based on the sorts of shows that I've seen the term "Slice of Life" applied to, I feel very confident that "Coming of Age Drama" will be similarly misused making it of dubious use as a genre label. The fact is that the main character of Accel World goes through as comprehensive a Coming of Age story as anybody in Tari Tari or Kokoro Connect does (and his coming of age story is more comprehensive than most of the characters in those two shows). Because of that, some people likely would apply "Coming of Age Drama" to Accel World. And to various Gundam shows. And to Gurren Lagann (even on this thread, Kirarakim has already indicated agreement with the idea that Gurren Lagann is a Coming of Age show). Eventually, "Coming of Age Drama" will become so broad that its usefulness as a genre label will be diminished. It's simply not the best term to use here, imo. Quote:
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And actually, when it comes to melodrama, I'm pretty sure that the "narrative criticism" meaning of the term is part of the term's official definition now. I've also read definitions for "Melodrama" that don't indicate that it's a genre label. Honestly, you're the very first person I've ever heard/read use "Melodrama" as a genre label.
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2012-10-10, 07:21 | Link #28 |
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I also come across a problem at trying to fit Tari Tari into a genre. What is it exactly? It started out as slice of life...ish, then it delves into drama, and lots of it. However, the overall "feel" of the anime is closer to slice of life than drama. The "drama" is more like side stories that develop each character, but it's more plot-heavy than those of other slice of life anime.
Another anime that I found to have this ambiguity is Manabi Straight. There is a central plot. It makes me cry like a wimp. Yet the episodes feel episodic. The plot is there and it's strong, but unlike typical romcom where plot gets shoved down your throat in the last 3 episodes, Manabi Straight manages to spread it out, showing more aspects of daily school life. So I end up having to classify it as a slice of life...drama. Is there such a thing? Nah. Lastly, I have to talk about Toradora. It's pretty obvious that roughly the first third/half of the show is slice of life, and the "romance" is presented in an "it won't get resolved any time soon so it's there just for kicks". Then suddenly it drops the plot bomb, about twice later on. So what, this is another slice of life + drama? I realize that this isn't the "lowkey drama" type like the two I mentioned above, since Toradora does a complete genre change in the middle, going from pretty much one extreme to another. But hey, why not mention it too?
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2012-10-10, 07:27 | Link #29 | |
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You can still distinguish what genre that "part" of the story has. So to categorize it you maybe have to look at it as a whole to determine which genre is the most important or the most prominent one than the other sub genres. |
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2012-10-10, 07:38 | Link #30 | |
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This is why I can't help but think that the approach taken by the Slice of Life purists might be causing more harm than good. Classic Aria-esque Slice of Life is exceptionally rare in today's anime world. You don't see it very often any more. So I'm not sure what exactly is being helped or preserved by holding to the strictest definition of Slice of Life when the types of shows that would fit that definition are very rarely made any more. And a show like Tari Tari definitely has a Slice of Life "feel" to it, even if it doesn't meet the strictest definition of the term Slice of Life. Instead of "correcting" people when they call shows like Hanasaku Iroha, Hyouka, and Tari Tari "Slice of Life", maybe we should just allow this term evolution to take its natural course? Personally, I think that would be a better course than overusing terms like "Coming of Age" and "Drama". Genre labels are there to serve the fans, the fans aren't there to serve the genre labels...
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2012-10-10, 07:40 | Link #31 | |
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I'm fine with arguing that too many people misuse the word but let's not get hyperbolic either
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2012-10-10, 07:53 | Link #32 | |
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People are not misusing the term "melodrama" when they use it as a form of narrative criticism, totoum. "Overdramatic emotion and behavior" is in fact one of the dictionary definitions of "melodrama". It's a perfectly legitimate use of the term, but it does mean the term carries a negative connotation that makes it a poor term to use for a genre label. Also, just because I spend a lot of time on Anime Suki doesn't mean I read every post here. Relentlessflame really is the first person that I have ever heard or read use melodrama as a genre label. Apparently, I missed those posts by Reckoner and Sackett (as for hyl's post, he used "melodramatic titles" which doesn't necessarily mean he's using melodrama as a genre; "melodramatic" might be a simple descriptor here, like "cheesy" or "campy").
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2012-10-10, 09:09 | Link #33 | ||
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Now this is more trivial than a real proposition,french language has the same issue with "mélodrame",it can be a genre and narrative criticism,what's happened is that you'll see people use the abbreviation "mélo" to just refer to the genre (at least with live action,don't hang around enough in french anime community to know if that's the case there too) Quote:
Still labeling shows like Tari Tari as SoL has a similar problem to the one you have with labeling it a drama. People also label things like Lucky Star as SoL so just like you argue some people would be misled by labeling Tari Tari as drama because they'd expected more drama you could say some people would be misled by Tari Tari being labeled SoL because they'd expect more comedy
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2012-10-10, 16:56 | Link #37 |
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lol "mellow drama" sounds actually...pretty good. 0.o
And I agree about the Lucky Star thing. Putting aside the people who think LS isn't a SoL because it has "comedy" (whatever), you can say Lucky Star is significantly different from Tari Tari. Even Lucky Star itself is significantly different from Aria. So you have SoL meaning a whole spectrum of things, under the broad definition.
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2012-10-11, 01:25 | Link #40 |
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Well, to be honest I never classified Kokoro Connect as SoL because it doesn't have that slice of life "feel". Being a school anime doesn't automatically make something SoL. And it actually has quite a lot of melodrama too, so I never really felt "relaxed" when I'm watching it.
(I'm not disagreeing with anyone, just making a random comment.)
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