AnimeSuki Forums

omimon · 2010-02-28, 07:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Westlo

Why even bring up Nisemonogatari to prove a point about Bakemonogatari? Especially in a thread where the majority of people reading this are anime only viewers. It seems pointless and reaching if you have to bring in Nise to construct your argument about why Bake is lacking. I still think you're trying to read too much into Bakemonogatari, it's not meant to be deep, it's a light series for Nise.

Most novel readers are disappointed in Nise to varying degrees, it still doesn't take anything away from Bakemonogatari itself. It's like saying Tenchi Muyo is overrated are bringing up Tenchi in Tokyo (or OVA 3 if you want to stay in same timeline), when the majority of praise for TM was for the OVAs.

Disappointed is a bit harsh, since there were things in Nise that wasn't in Bake. I think everyone is taking this series way too seriously, it is simply a story about a guy interacting with girls, that's it.

karice67 · 2010-02-28, 08:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by omimon

I think everyone is taking this series way too seriously, it is simply a story about a guy interacting with girls, that's it.

I actually agree with you on this. Bakemonogatari works for me simply because of the amusing interactions between the characters.

Although there is some advice for certain types of people inherent in those interactions.

omimon · 2010-02-28, 08:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by karice67

I actually agree with you on this. Bakemonogatari works for me simply because of the amusing interactions between the characters.

Although there is some advice for certain types of people inherent in those interactions.

I know, right? I mean all this talk about how Shaft is taking their sweet ass time to create an episode and yet they still some how screw in some way....I mean I'm a very realized person here and I think sales speaks all. This series sells big and that is all there is to it, and it's not like we can complain especially when the economy is not exactly giving us a lot of space to move. All I can say is a series sells because it appeals to people and when a series appeals to people.....IT MEANS ITS GOOD! Shaft clearly knows what they doing and I will continue to expect great things from them as I always have been for the past 3 years.

Ice Block · 2010-02-28, 09:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Lind

I don't even see why you bring Kyoto Animation up here.

Are you familiar with the [abbr] tag?

zato_1one · 2010-02-28, 11:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Westlo

Why even bring up Nisemonogatari to prove a point about Bakemonogatari? Especially in a thread where the majority of people reading this are anime only viewers.

Agree! I'm also an anime only viewer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by omimon

I know, right? I mean all this talk about how Shaft is taking their sweet ass time to create an episode and yet they still some how screw in some way....I mean I'm a very realized person here and I think sales speaks all. This series sells big and that is all there is to it, and it's not like we can complain especially when the economy is not exactly giving us a lot of space to move. All I can say is a series sells because it appeals to people and when a series appeals to people.....IT MEANS ITS GOOD! Shaft clearly knows what they doing and I will continue to expect great things from them as I always have been for the past 3 years.

Yeah. That's the point.

[sarcasm]
I guess that there are some people who expect only an Oscar candidate series to sell well. That's why they are so disappoint that this series is too successful.

[/sarcasm]

Kunagisa · 2010-02-28, 14:22

All popular works get criticism (loltwilight). I think they're merely discussing what they think of the characters. While I totally disagree with the aforementioned criticisms, but I still think there valid points about Hitagi's character type.

Though playing the "cliche" card is kinda dangerous in discussion ... I could always say Iketeru Futari's main is awesome, but all the girls after her is cliche tsunderes =(. In anime, you will have a hard time finding the origination of character types, which would be going back way far and those would be the "un-cliche" ones. However, characters types are evolutionary by inherent basis, hence what I believe to be able to call a character cliche is when she follows the character basic definition to the core with absolutely zero extra qualities to her, which is actually really, really hard to do.

Everyone in Bake has extreme personalities with soft moments, so I wouldn't call any of them cliche.

Morbus · 2010-03-01, 10:21

Well, from an extremely technical standpoint, it's not the character itself that's cliche, but the situation they're in.

Of course this may lead to complicated, and often damaging, simplifications of what builds a character, but it can be said that any cliche archetype that's placed in an unorthodox situation isn't cliche. That's the case with Bakemonogatari's characters, in my opinion.

The argument that the first character in existence in a certain archetype isn't cliche is wrong, I think. Again, bearing in mind that it's the situation that makes something cliche, rather than the characters themselves, anything that's predictable is technically a cliche. K-on!, Clannad, Shakugan no Shana. Three series of the most cliche you can find, but the characters aren't particularly underdesigned or anything. On the other hand, for example, Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann pics up all the mecha cliches and joins them in a totally non-cliche, yet cliche-filled show (I mean, I've never seen anything like that...). Despite the situations themselves being cliche.

That's why I think it's not a good approach to criticize something for being unimaginative just because of one particular point. We'll end up oversimplifying everything.

Ah... Moo shira nai yo.

Malkuth · 2010-03-01, 15:19

I was watching again the last couple of episodes, and was wandering if there is any significance at what Oshino was burning when Araragi took Tsubasa to him in ep.13

Spoiler for Speculation:

Morbus · 2010-03-01, 16:11

It looked to me like a burnt dove or something of the like. A bird of some kind.

omimon · 2010-03-01, 17:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malkuth

I was watching again the last couple of episodes, and was wandering if there is any significance at what Oshino was burning when Araragi took Tsubasa to him in ep.13

Spoiler for Speculation:

Spoiler:

Westlo · 2010-03-02, 05:01

DVD sales are out.

*1, 19,804 19,804 Bakemonogatari vol.5 Limited Edition DVD
*2, 16,161 16,161 Durarara!! vol.1

Durarara is doing nicely... another Aniplex winner.. pity Baccano only sold 3.5k

Azuma Denton · 2010-03-02, 07:29

If we're following the same pattern as BD/DVD Calculation...

BD Sales for vol 5 will be 30k++...
Another 50k++ for Bakemonogatari??

omimon · 2010-03-02, 07:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azuma Denton

If we're following the same pattern as BD/DVD Calculation...

BD Sales for vol 5 will be 30k++...
Another 50k++ for Bakemonogatari??

What are you talking about....BD should be at least 50,000+.

sirn · 2010-03-02, 08:56

Meg Rock reveal a few points about Bakemonogatari OPs in her last month's lecture at Ikebukuro Community College, in bullet list as ever:

There's no plan to release opening songs as singles from the beginning due to certain circumstances which she can't say.
Since this is going to be used only in an anime, she don't need to think about compatibility with seiyuu's individual when writing the lyrics. Thus, more freedom in writing.
At first they asked she to choose one character song out of five. She then read the novel and can't decided whom to write for; since Kousaki-san did all the composition then it's a good idea to let Meg Rock do it all.
For the name of the song being English → Japanese → English → Japanese → English was her intention but without any particular reason.
Staff meeting was done in Aniplex's office.
Normally when she will have to write a song for anime series, the staff will hand her a script to read. For this series, the staff tell her "just read the novel" (since it's going to be faithful to the novel).
All four songs contained the word "egao" ("smile"); or rather, most Meg Rock's song in 2009 does.
But she can't really find any where to add it in Sugar Sweet Nightmare.
She was a bit hesitate to read Kizumonogatari when writing the fifth song, but decided to read it in the end because Nisio Isin recommends it in an interview. Her opinion of Hanakawa changed 180 degrees ever since.
Kousaki-san didn't limit the syllable required for Nadeko's rap so she try to pack them as much as she can.
The "Nadeko being forced to sing", or the fact that the rap seems unskilled is her intention.
She has been a friend with Hanazawa Kana since Asu no Yoichi.
"'Shi' nuki de, iya Shinuki de" was come into her mind when she was going to take a train.
The fact that Renai Circulation's music was done without the Si note was purely coincidental. She realized that after the song has been released.
Staple Stable's similarity to the ending song is also coincidental. Maybe it was Kai'i doing?!

juank_m10 · 2010-03-02, 19:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by sirn

[*]She was a bit hesitate to read Kizumonogatari when writing the fifth song, but decided to read it in the end because Nisio Isin recommends it in an interview. Her opinion of Hanakawa changed 180 degrees ever since.

And that's why I really wanna read that novel.

Azuma Denton · 2010-03-03, 04:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by omimon

What are you talking about....BD should be at least 50,000+.

Blu-ray
*1, 46,000 46,000 Bakemonogatari vol.5 Limited Edition

*Hails omimon...

karice67 · 2010-03-03, 05:13

well...not quite over 50,000...I guess DVD 4's sales were due to almost entirely revamped animation...and Nadeko...

Also...I'm not entirely sure where this should go, because it's stuff that Kamiya Hiroshi and Hanaeawa Kana talked about in the 4th atogatari...

They mention that the recording of the drama cd was the only time that all cast members were gathered together in the same place, so...maybe we won't get to hear Hirano Aya voicing Shinobu for the series proper? On the other hand, given that there are no more previews, Karen and Tsukihi shouldn't be appearing in the finale...?

Oh, and this is also interesting. They also discuss favourite heroines...and from a female point of view (i.e. Kana-chan's), Hitagi tends to be the favourite. However, from a male point of view...it's Tsubasa!!

Morbus · 2010-03-03, 05:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by karice67

However, from a male point of view...it's Tsubasa!!

Any particular reasons for that?

karice67 · 2010-03-03, 06:26

The way Kamiyan puts it suggests that it has a lot to do with the cat...but he doesn't elaborate. (It is, after all, the Nadeko Snake atogatari - they got on that topic when Kamiyan mentioned that Nadeko is the girl in the cast that one would want to protect.) We might find out after episode 15...or perhaps you could ask relevant people in the novels thread...?

Morbus · 2010-03-03, 07:28

I don't read novels/manga of anime I like, so I'm afraid to go there :P

But it's understandable that it's a fetish thing, lol.

2010-03-01, 15:19	Link #2008
Malkuth Banned Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: London Age: 43	I was watching again the last couple of episodes, and was wandering if there is any significance at what Oshino was burning when Araragi took Tsubasa to him in ep.13 Spoiler for Speculation: Could it be Shinobou's ashes Mayoi said that she had seen her wandering around town, so Oshino might had to do something about it

2010-03-02, 08:56	Link #2014
sirn 田舎者言うな Join Date: Jan 2006	Meg Rock reveal a few points about Bakemonogatari OPs in her last month's lecture at Ikebukuro Community College, in bullet list as ever: There's no plan to release opening songs as singles from the beginning due to certain circumstances which she can't say. Since this is going to be used only in an anime, she don't need to think about compatibility with seiyuu's individual when writing the lyrics. Thus, more freedom in writing. At first they asked she to choose one character song out of five. She then read the novel and can't decided whom to write for; since Kousaki-san did all the composition then it's a good idea to let Meg Rock do it all. For the name of the song being English → Japanese → English → Japanese → English was her intention but without any particular reason. Staff meeting was done in Aniplex's office. Normally when she will have to write a song for anime series, the staff will hand her a script to read. For this series, the staff tell her "just read the novel" (since it's going to be faithful to the novel). All four songs contained the word "egao" ("smile"); or rather, most Meg Rock's song in 2009 does. But she can't really find any where to add it in Sugar Sweet Nightmare. She was a bit hesitate to read Kizumonogatari when writing the fifth song, but decided to read it in the end because Nisio Isin recommends it in an interview. Her opinion of Hanakawa changed 180 degrees ever since. Kousaki-san didn't limit the syllable required for Nadeko's rap so she try to pack them as much as she can. The "Nadeko being forced to sing", or the fact that the rap seems unskilled is her intention. She has been a friend with Hanazawa Kana since Asu no Yoichi. "'Shi' nuki de, iya Shinuki de" was come into her mind when she was going to take a train. The fact that Renai Circulation's music was done without the Si note was purely coincidental. She realized that after the song has been released. Staple Stable's similarity to the ending song is also coincidental. Maybe it was Kai'i doing?!

2010-03-03, 05:13	Link #2017
karice67 さっく♥ゆうきゃん♥ほそやん Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: in the land down under...	well...not quite over 50,000...I guess DVD 4's sales were due to almost entirely revamped animation...and Nadeko... Also...I'm not entirely sure where this should go, because it's stuff that Kamiya Hiroshi and Hanaeawa Kana talked about in the 4th atogatari... They mention that the recording of the drama cd was the only time that all cast members were gathered together in the same place, so...maybe we won't get to hear Hirano Aya voicing Shinobu for the series proper? On the other hand, given that there are no more previews, Karen and Tsukihi shouldn't be appearing in the finale...? Oh, and this is also interesting. They also discuss favourite heroines...and from a female point of view (i.e. Kana-chan's), Hitagi tends to be the favourite. However, from a male point of view...it's Tsubasa!! __________________ *How Suetsugu Yuki drew the cover for Chihayafuru* volume 34** Interview translations etc You must free yourself from that illusion, from the illusion that a story must have a beginning and an end. "No, you are not entitled to your opinion... You are only entitled to what you can argue for.” - Patrick Stokes

2010-03-03, 06:26	Link #2019
karice67 さっく♥ゆうきゃん♥ほそやん Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: in the land down under...	The way Kamiyan puts it suggests that it has a lot to do with the cat...but he doesn't elaborate. (It is, after all, the Nadeko Snake atogatari - they got on that topic when Kamiyan mentioned that Nadeko is the girl in the cast that one would want to protect.) We might find out after episode 15...or perhaps you could ask relevant people in the novels thread...? __________________ *How Suetsugu Yuki drew the cover for Chihayafuru* volume 34** Interview translations etc You must free yourself from that illusion, from the illusion that a story must have a beginning and an end. "No, you are not entitled to your opinion... You are only entitled to what you can argue for.” - Patrick Stokes

2010-02-28, 14:22	Link #2006
Kunagisa Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2009	All popular works get criticism (loltwilight). I think they're merely discussing what they think of the characters. While I totally disagree with the aforementioned criticisms, but I still think there valid points about Hitagi's character type. Though playing the "cliche" card is kinda dangerous in discussion ... I could always say Iketeru Futari's main is awesome, but all the girls after her is cliche tsunderes =(. In anime, you will have a hard time finding the origination of character types, which would be going back way far and those would be the "un-cliche" ones. However, characters types are evolutionary by inherent basis, hence what I believe to be able to call a character cliche is when she follows the character basic definition to the core with absolutely zero extra qualities to her, which is actually really, really hard to do. Everyone in Bake has extreme personalities with soft moments, so I wouldn't call any of them cliche.

2010-03-01, 10:21	Link #2007
Morbus Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2010	Well, from an extremely technical standpoint, it's not the character itself that's cliche, but the situation they're in. Of course this may lead to complicated, and often damaging, simplifications of what builds a character, but it can be said that any cliche archetype that's placed in an unorthodox situation isn't cliche. That's the case with Bakemonogatari's characters, in my opinion. The argument that the first character in existence in a certain archetype isn't cliche is wrong, I think. Again, bearing in mind that it's the situation that makes something cliche, rather than the characters themselves, anything that's predictable is technically a cliche. K-on!, Clannad, Shakugan no Shana. Three series of the most cliche you can find, but the characters aren't particularly underdesigned or anything. On the other hand, for example, Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann pics up all the mecha cliches and joins them in a totally non-cliche, yet cliche-filled show (I mean, I've never seen anything like that...). Despite the situations themselves being cliche. That's why I think it's not a good approach to criticize something for being unimaginative just because of one particular point. We'll end up oversimplifying everything. Ah... Moo shira nai yo.

2010-03-01, 16:11	Link #2009
Morbus Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2010	It looked to me like a burnt dove or something of the like. A bird of some kind.

2010-03-02, 05:01	Link #2011
Westlo Lets be reality Join Date: May 2007	DVD sales are out. 1, 19,804 19,804 Bakemonogatari vol.5 Limited Edition DVD 2, 16,161 16,161 Durarara!! vol.1 Durarara is doing nicely... another Aniplex winner.. pity Baccano only sold 3.5k

2010-03-02, 07:29	Link #2012
Azuma Denton ~AD~ Join Date: Oct 2006	If we're following the same pattern as BD/DVD Calculation... BD Sales for vol 5 will be 30k++... Another 50k++ for Bakemonogatari??

2010-03-03, 07:28	Link #2020
Morbus Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2010	I don't read novels/manga of anime I like, so I'm afraid to go there :P But it's understandable that it's a fetish thing, lol.