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Old 2020-01-07, 18:05   Link #101
Anh_Minh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
Scratch that, did I misunderstand something or the President actually threatened to take military actions against a city of his own country?
A city that's making its own laws, apparently. But yes.
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Old 2020-01-11, 02:31   Link #102
Cosmic Eagle
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Magase's obsession with Seizaki is turning into a joke. Why fear her when she's like fish to the bait of Seizaki at this rate
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Old 2020-01-12, 18:56   Link #103
Dextro
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To be fair cities do have the ability to have their own laws in the US. And not just that, I would imagine France also has some sort of municipal council that can pass limited laws so long as they don't conflict with the nations laws.

So if we consider that suicide is no longer illegal in most western democracies then passing a municipal law that makes it specifically allowed in that city would potentially be OK since it wouldn't conflict with any state or national laws. So far reasonable suspension of disbelief still applies.

The thing that kind of annoys me is that they just played a recording of Magase and it affected Zen but the lady in the room didn't react. The show established before that Sekuro found that voice disconcerting so it's disappointing they didn't use that fact here again. Hopefully that still comes up during the next episode so let's see.

To be fair I'm expecting this to jump the shark any minute now. The writer's track record on this is not particularly great
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Old 2020-01-12, 20:11   Link #104
Grifis
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I still don't see what is so special about the main guy. Expanding to the US was beyond ridiculous for me. I can't go on anymore.
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Old 2020-01-13, 01:04   Link #105
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by Dextro View Post
To be fair cities do have the ability to have their own laws in the US. And not just that, I would imagine France also has some sort of municipal council that can pass limited laws so long as they don't conflict with the nations laws.
Very limited. Recently some mayors tried to increase the safety distance between the spraying of pesticides and habitations, and it was declared illegal.

Quote:
So if we consider that suicide is no longer illegal in most western democracies then passing a municipal law that makes it specifically allowed in that city would potentially be OK since it wouldn't conflict with any state or national laws. So far reasonable suspension of disbelief still applies.
Active euthanasia is still very illegal in France.
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Old 2020-01-13, 01:34   Link #106
Jan-Poo
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Very limited. Recently some mayors tried to increase the safety distance between the spraying of pesticides and habitations, and it was declared illegal.
That's why the whole thing is so surreal. If a mayor crosses the line you act against him through legal methods by bringing him to a tribunal or through police forces if he still defies the law. What we got instead was a President that acknowledged that the mayor did not illegal, and at the same time that he could act against a "perfectly legal initiative" through brute force just because he can. That's something a Dictator can do, not the Leader of a democratic nation.
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Old 2020-01-13, 18:39   Link #107
Dextro
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Very limited. Recently some mayors tried to increase the safety distance between the spraying of pesticides and habitations, and it was declared illegal.



Active euthanasia is still very illegal in France.
I'm pretty sure my point still stands. That particular law was potentially struck down because it conflicted with the national law that set the limits. Both laws could not be applied at the same time because you can't have a municipal law that contradicts a national one (be it by being more or less restrictive).

Also euthanasia is not suicide. It's disingenuous to conflate the two. One is the act of helping another kill himself, the other is the act of killing oneself. I know suicide used to be illegal but then we reach the ridiculous scenario where people who tried to kill themselves and failed got condemned to the death penalty in the most ironic case of law absurdity possible. Thankfully most Western democracies changed that eventually.

Now for the rolling out the military comment. Yeah, that is a completely absurd bit of the show. No defense from me there.
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Old 2020-01-14, 01:29   Link #108
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by Dextro View Post
I'm pretty sure my point still stands. That particular law was potentially struck down because it conflicted with the national law that set the limits. Both laws could not be applied at the same time because you can't have a municipal law that contradicts a national one (be it by being more or less restrictive).

Also euthanasia is not suicide. It's disingenuous to conflate the two. One is the act of helping another kill himself, the other is the act of killing oneself. I know suicide used to be illegal but then we reach the ridiculous scenario where people who tried to kill themselves and failed got condemned to the death penalty in the most ironic case of law absurdity possible. Thankfully most Western democracies changed that eventually.
It would depend on what, exactly, the suicide law says. But "suicide buildings" and the commercialization of "painless death drugs" sound, at best, like euthanasia. Super illegal on a national level.
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Old 2020-01-14, 02:08   Link #109
Jan-Poo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dextro View Post
I'm pretty sure my point still stands. That particular law was potentially struck down because it conflicted with the national law that set the limits. Both laws could not be applied at the same time because you can't have a municipal law that contradicts a national one (be it by being more or less restrictive).

Also euthanasia is not suicide. It's disingenuous to conflate the two. One is the act of helping another kill himself, the other is the act of killing oneself.
I agree with you there, but it's the author that apparently doesn't. In episode 8 at around 6:33 they say:

Quote:
Shiniki is starting to put the suicide law into effect.
Nyux, the drug for euthanasia, was announced in a highly public manner.
It is quite clear at this point that what Itsuki disguises as "suicide law" is actually a law meant to legalize all kind of supports to people that want to kill themselves and not just "suicide".

Mayors can enact some local laws, but they cannot legalize something that the state law forbids, and therefore this can only make sense in the case of Shiniki which was established as having a special jurisdiction system.
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Old 2020-01-15, 11:46   Link #110
Haak
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Yeah, Babylon has completely fallen apart when it comes to exploring the moral and ethics of suicide and euthanasia. It was interesting at first but it's kinda obvious how the authors understanding is on purely theoretical and philosophical level, his lack of knowledge of politics outside of Japan is just painful and a complete omission from a healthcare point of view is particularly regrettable. And fundamentally, I find it hard to believe that the widespread availability of a pain-free suicide drug would reduce suicide rates as this show seems to think it would.

At this point I'm just interested in seeing a conclusion.
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Old 2020-01-21, 12:21   Link #111
Cosmic Eagle
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Just found out that the writer of Babylon and Kado is the same person who wrote Hello World. That's interesting

Anyway, let's see if the president somehow turns out to be immune to Magase or not....


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And fundamentally, I find it hard to believe that the widespread availability of a pain-free suicide drug would reduce suicide rates as this show seems to think it would.
It doesn't though? Magase is obviously cast as the villian here so anything her side does is suspect. If anything, the extended philosophisizing is its main weakness. It doesn't have the time to give a solid discussion and ends up amateurish as a result.
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Old 2020-01-22, 01:40   Link #112
Tong
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Wait, this is done by the same guy who wrote Kado? No wonder I saw so many similarities.

Now let's see if the President's speech skill check and anti-charm skills are enough to defeat Magase once and for all, but I want to see Seizaki-san being the hero somehow. Not like he can shoot her all the way from US to Japan right.
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Old 2020-01-25, 20:52   Link #113
Alchemist007
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I'm liking the setting and slight perspective shift, it might've been exactly what the show needed.
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Old 2020-01-26, 15:29   Link #114
Haak
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle View Post
It doesn't though? Magase is obviously cast as the villian here so anything her side does is suspect.
It was mentioned around 6-ish minutes into Episode 8 that suicide rates are declining because of the law soon after being initiated in Shiniki. Whilst the Magase being a clear villain does taint that entire side, the author does seem to want us to think it would have such an effect, and is trying to paint a grey picture.

Anyway, as for the recent episode all I could do was cringe at the discussion those world leaders were having. I think this may be the first time I've seriously considered dropping a series just before it finishes. I'm really not sure what to do here...
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Old 2020-01-27, 14:59   Link #115
Tong
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Haha dude the ending, lmao.
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Old 2020-01-27, 15:14   Link #116
Jan-Poo
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Considering how the whole series dealt with the political and juridical aspect of the story I really didn't expect something sensible as the author's answer to what is "good" and "evil". It's a very shallow and laughable definition, though I suppose there's been worse.

That apart the story doesn't really explain what was Magase's purpose in all of this. What did she gain at the end of everything? Was it all nothing but her idea of having fun or killing time because she had nothing better to do?
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Old 2020-01-27, 16:58   Link #117
Tong
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Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
That apart the story doesn't really explain what was Magase's purpose in all of this. What did she gain at the end of everything? Was it all nothing but her idea of having fun or killing time because she had nothing better to do?
That's up to the reader/watcher to speculate, but it's apparent that Magase has supernatural powers in a otherwise grounded/realistic setting.

In my opinion, I think the author wanted us to experience a different point of view, that is, what if only the villain/antagonist had overwhelming supernatural powers and the protagonist was a mere human.

I think it's similar to Death Note in a sense, but instead, we're experiencing things from a different scope.
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Old 2020-01-27, 17:18   Link #118
Jan-Poo
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But Light had a very well defined objective. I'm not complaining about the supernatural power, but a total lack of discernible agency behind the villain's actions.
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Old 2020-01-27, 17:37   Link #119
Kismet-chan
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...What a stupid fucking ending. I almost don't even want to dive into analysis.

It's like the entire series had zero point.
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Old 2020-01-27, 17:54   Link #120
Wandering Soul
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I want into that ending expecting nothing and I still consider it a waste.
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