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Old 2020-02-25, 16:41   Link #261
4th Dimension
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I'm pretty sure they went to Challenger's home to find NARISAGO's particles to check if Walker influenced him too. Matsuoka even notes how STRONG Narisago's killing intent was and right off the bat, given that even years the device was EASILY able to pick up a strong signal.

Now that I think about it, couldn't they have picked up his particles from his cell where he has killed more? Or maybe they wanted his well from that time when he killed Challenger.
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Old 2020-02-25, 17:00   Link #262
GDB
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They wanted them from that time if at all possible, but they also picked up the Challenger's while there.
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Old 2020-02-26, 02:19   Link #263
Cosmic Eagle
花の魔術師
 
 
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Full out John Walker is training Akihito here into the killer he always wanted him to be
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Old 2020-02-26, 09:39   Link #264
AC-Phoenix
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4th Dimension View Post
I'm pretty sure they went to Challenger's home to find NARISAGO's particles to check if Walker influenced him too. Matsuoka even notes how STRONG Narisago's killing intent was and right off the bat, given that even years the device was EASILY able to pick up a strong signal.

Now that I think about it, couldn't they have picked up his particles from his cell where he has killed more? Or maybe they wanted his well from that time when he killed Challenger.
Yeah and his killing intent was totally understandable, given the situation.
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Old 2020-02-26, 19:42   Link #265
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So what's the consensus? Did they visit the Challenger's Well or not? I'm still pretty certain Narihisago's Well is the first Hondomachi's visited, considering the Wellside's comments. And it would make sense to check Narihisago's first since he used to be one of them and whether he was influenced into becoming a serial killer is important.
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Old 2020-02-27, 09:25   Link #266
Jan-Poo
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Rewatching the start of episode 7, Momoki is clearly stating that he's going to make Hondomachi enter the Challenger's well.

Then the Opening Song cues in

After the Song ends Momoki states that it was confirmed (as suspected) that John Walker was in the Challenger's well. And after that discussion they decide to make Hondomachi dive into Narihisago's well.

Wakashika's comment is indeed strange, but I think it's pretty much certain that Hondomachi dived in the Challenger's well first.
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Old 2020-02-27, 09:34   Link #267
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Only thing I can think of to explain the discrepancy is she entered his well, John Walker was right there before she could even see Kaeru, and they ejected her before going any further.
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Old 2020-02-27, 11:33   Link #268
Kanon
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Well, that cleared things up for me. Thanks.
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Old 2020-02-27, 23:27   Link #269
AC-Phoenix
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
Rewatching the start of episode 7, Momoki is clearly stating that he's going to make Hondomachi enter the Challenger's well.

Then the Opening Song cues in

After the Song ends Momoki states that it was confirmed (as suspected) that John Walker was in the Challenger's well. And after that discussion they decide to make Hondomachi dive into Narihisago's well.

Wakashika's comment is indeed strange, but I think it's pretty much certain that Hondomachi dived in the Challenger's well first.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GDB View Post
Only thing I can think of to explain the discrepancy is she entered his well, John Walker was right there before she could even see Kaeru, and they ejected her before going any further.
Either that or one of the other detectives got sent in instead.
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Old 2020-02-28, 09:14   Link #270
Jan-Poo
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Or, you know, maybe Wakashika is so bothered by that, that he keeps stating his surprise every time it happens.
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Old 2020-02-28, 15:38   Link #271
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Either that or one of the other detectives got sent in instead.
Only other one they'd have sent in is Anaido, and that seems to be their "no other choice" option.
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Old 2020-02-29, 00:03   Link #272
Cosmic Eagle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GDB View Post
Only thing I can think of to explain the discrepancy is she entered his well, John Walker was right there before she could even see Kaeru, and they ejected her before going any further.
Pity they didn't show the Challenger's Well though, would have liked to see what was going on in his head
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Old 2020-03-01, 12:17   Link #273
Irenesharda
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Okay....?

This is getting more and more confusing. Can they give that poor guy a break! But at least Akihito got to spend a whole year with his family even if he bought into the dream. I'm actually still kind of hoping it was all a dream since there was some really strange goings on here.

We meet the creator of the Mitsuhanome. We find out what happened to Handomachi. Something weird has happened to Kiki and how she seems to be affecting the world around her and Aki might just have to kill her in the end.

I like how he just went through killers and made them all kill themselves. And he was having a wonderful time in this world but they just messed it all up by having Handomachi show up. That girl has never been so irritating, but at least Aki was able to leave her with his notes to try to solve things.

Sakaido, on the other hand, and pretty much everyone was fooled by Anaido, who it seems was way smarter than he looks and has been putting on an act all this time. So the well we were in this whole time was Akihito's, just covered in sand? So this isn't a different cockpit, it's the SAME one from before that Handomachi went in just at another point in time?

But how did it get that way? Why were his particles at Momoki's house? Why does Akihito have a cockpit in his head with the name of girl he never met in reality? What's going on?! Was Anaido working with John Walker the whole time? Now that Sakaido is fully aware that he's in his own well, his brain is on the fritz. Is this the trap that Momoki spoke of?

WHAT IS GOING ON????!!!!!!
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Last edited by Irenesharda; 2020-03-01 at 12:39.
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Old 2020-03-01, 13:24   Link #274
Kismet-chan
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At this point, my guess is that the Mitsuhanome's creator is John Walker. I feel like it's the only outcome that would actually make sense. It's also possible that it's somehow Fukuda, or that Fukuda is in cahoots with John Walker and was playing a MASSIVE long con, but I doubt that because I have no idea what his motivations would be. (Unless he's just being strung along/manipulated or whatever.) Alternatively, if there actually is merit to her projecting thoughts into others' minds in reality, maybe Kiki herself is John Walker? Could be that the first 'visitation' she had from 'John Walker' in her dreams was just a metaphor? Hmm..
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Old 2020-03-01, 14:36   Link #275
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irenesharda View Post

Sakaido, on the other hand, and pretty much everyone was fooled by Anaido, who it seems was way smarter than he looks and has been putting on an act all this time. So the well we were in this whole time was Akihito's, just covered in sand? So this isn't a different cockpit, it's the SAME one from before that Handomachi went in just at another point in time?

But how did it get that way? Why were his particles at Momoki's house? Why does Akihito have a cockpit in his head with the name of girl he never met in reality? What's going on?! Was Anaido working with John Walker the whole time? Now that Sakaido is fully aware that he's in his own well, his brain is on the fritz. Is this the trap that Momoki spoke of?

WHAT IS GOING ON????!!!!!!
The implication is that time is warped, and that Narihisago might have been the one to kill Asukai in the "real" world. This current episode gave him a motive, after all.
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Old 2020-03-01, 14:58   Link #276
frodonk
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Mizuhanome's actual creator, Nishio Shirakoma, actually made an appearance this episode, putting that helmet thing on top of Kiki's head.

Confirms the link to Kaeru being based off Kiki, and why Kaeru always appear when they use the machine to dive in, Kiki's unique ability must've been a crucial part of the machine.

Also makes sense why she's always dead. In Kiki's dreams she always dies at the hands of the killer who appears, the residual particles left behind are then picked up and recreated, by that time Kiki, or Kaeru-chan, is already dead, then the brilliant detective appears.

Just like how the detectives don't remember their true selves when they dive, Kiki's real identity is also .. hidden, and we get Kaeru.

They've also hinted at that Dogma before, as with the hint that Hondomachi will become a brilliant detective, so I kind of knew this will happen.

I have no idea what's going on
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Old 2020-03-01, 15:04   Link #277
Irenesharda
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow5YA View Post
The implication is that time is warped, and that Narihisago might have been the one to kill Asukai in the "real" world. This current episode gave him a motive, after all.
I don't know about that. There is a time issue but I don't think it's that. I don't think Akihito killed Kiki, it wouldn't even work in a turned about way. The timeline just wouldn't match at all. And what motive would he have? Even if she is the center of how this machine works, that would be no reason to kill her.
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Old 2020-03-01, 15:41   Link #278
4th Dimension
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Well, there is a motive a good guy would have. And that is to help her with her suicide and end. But it doesn't make sense for it to be Narisago since he has been in jail ever since he killed the Challenger and that's where cops found Kiki, and she didn't dissapear till months later.

I have to say while I'm not sure all the things align in this story, and ESPECIALLY the thematic meanings of the wells (note how ever since we've stopped doing murderer of week things were light on interpretation) and such, I'M STRAPPED IN for this WILD RIDE

Narisago just can't catch a break from those holed bastards First Hondoumachi and now bloody driller himself.

I'm wondering if John Walker being present in the ID might mean someone has passed their "training" in Kiki's dream/well. Which Narisago has now most definitely done....
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Old 2020-03-01, 15:45   Link #279
Shadow5YA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irenesharda View Post
I don't know about that. There is a time issue but I don't think it's that. I don't think Akihito killed Kiki, it wouldn't even work in a turned about way. The timeline just wouldn't match at all. And what motive would he have? Even if she is the center of how this machine works, that would be no reason to kill her.
She wants the nightmare to end, or she'll keep spreading murderous thoughts to other people. She asked to be killed.

Narihisago refused now, but what if the stakes were higher? You could see that he was faltering.
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Old 2020-03-01, 16:47   Link #280
AC-Phoenix
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GDB View Post
Only other one they'd have sent in is Anaido, and that seems to be their "no other choice" option.
They could have let Sakaido dive in. He doesn't have his memories in there, so it'd be fine.
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