Nanoha FanFiction Discussion

[NorthernFallout]

Originally Posted by RadiantBeam

But since Mid-Childa is really a made up place to begin with, I guess the age of consent all depends on the writer.

Quite so. As far as I know, Mid-Childa is not under japanese law and you are pretty much free to set that yourself, unless there is some sort of canon information that suggests otherwise.

[Jimmy C]

Originally Posted by Comartermis

Rick has quite literally asked for this, so don't be afraid to tell him exactly what you think of his work.

Is this for real? I have to be honest then, I haven't been able to bring myself to real his stories since his very first posts last year. I couldn't stand his bad grammar. The only exception was his part of the Mirrored Souls series. If his non-fic posts of late are anything to go by, he hasn't improved his grammar much.
Grammar and spelling are like a pane of glass between the reader and the story. Errors are smudges and scratches on that pane. A few here and there are forgivable, but too many make it nearly impossible to clearly see the story you want to paint.

[Satashi]

Originally Posted by Comartemis

Alright folks, listen up.

Your beloved writer, Evil_Rick, has asked me to confirm his fanfiction writing credentials and the quality of his stories with the local residents. Rick seems to believe that his fanfiction is so wonderful that merely having posted it is proof that he is an awesome writer, so I want opinions on Rick's work from everyone who reads this post. And don't say "Well he's a good writer" and don't say "He's a shitty writer" either; give me reasons why Rick's work is good or bad or utterly horrible.

Rick has quite literally asked for this, so don't be afraid to tell him exactly what you think of his work. Anything you say, no matter how scathing or critical it may be, will only help Rick to realize his failings and produce better, higher-quality work in the future.

Why didn't Rick ask this himself?

One thing I respect about Rick is his "never give up" attitude. Despite some people not giving him a chance or not commenting, he keeps going and trying to improve. English is a hard language to learn ( and is often called the hardest ). True, his grammar isn't the best, but he honestly tries. The author in me really respects that.

As for his stories, I'm sorry to say I can't read them... gore and action and I don't really get along T_T

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by Satashi

Why didn't Rick ask this himself?

More or less because Rick wants to show Comar what the thread thinks of him.

It started out when he posted an image of Jail in a battlesuit in the OC thread, and asked what we thought of it. Comar was the first to reply, and voiced the opinion that Jail is not the type to dress up in a powersuit and go on the frontlines. Rick disagreed, and the discussion spiraled off to the point where even Caro was suddenly capable of extreme hand-to-hand combat, at which point Comar bluntly questioned whether Rick knew what he was thinking, and Rick used his many works to prove he was, after which Comar countered that quantity =/= quallity, which resulted in Rick sending Comar to the FF-thread to ask what people here thought of his works.

Personally, I don't like the idea of battlesuit Jail and melee Caro myself, and Rick refuses to give any info that might let the story make sense to me.

Anyway, on Rick's stuff, I have to read it before I can make any real judgements, but to this point the horrible spelling (more then half of his errors can be avoided by simply using a spellcheck) and Marvel-level silly vilains have turned me off.

[TheShinySword]

Originally Posted by Comartemis

Rick has quite literally asked for this, so don't be afraid to tell him exactly what you think of his work. Anything you say, no matter how scathing or critical it may be, will only help Rick to realize his failings and produce better, higher-quality work in the future.

Hmm... Well I like his ideas and I admire and envy the speed he works at. However, I can't read his work because the grammar kills me. In writing grammar and spelling are just as important as content. After all without them a reader doesn't know how to read a piece. Poor grammar can isolate readers and drag them right out of the story, no matter how good the writer is (though granted without knowledge of grammar it's hard to be a good writer). Anytime I read anything and I run into a poorly worded sentence or a misuse of tense or any kind of thing that makes me go "what the hell is s/he trying to say it draws me out of the story's world. That's why authors have copy editors and we have betas, the reader shouldn't expect the author to get everything but they should expect the writer has done all they can do to ensure it's not a challenge for the reader to read.

[Satashi]

Well, I personally have not finished StrikerS so I can't say jack for Jail and what he would do or not.

I did put him in a battle suit, so to say, in my 6th Division story. Not so much as like... battle armor... or even a "power ranger" type deal, but mine was a robotic deal that enhanced his telekinetic abilities. All that is tied to my story, so it makes sense to me. As for the real part of Jail.... Sadly I can't say anything T_T sorry.

For Caro hand to hand.... nah, she's a support mage from what I saw. A summoner, one who stands in the back rows and runs when she's confronted. Hides behind others (not in a cowardly way, but a strategic placement). So unless something was tied to that story that lead her to go hand-to-hand, I can't see it. But if, say, in chapter 1 she got her butt stomped and Erio got hurt.... and she decided that she must get stronger so she started training to be able to better protect people... that's acceptable.

Although, Caro WAS trained to move fast to avoid things. Fate herself taught both Caro and Erio how to move through ranged blast and stuff in that one episode. So I think if Caro was in a hand-to-hand battle, she would be able to avoid most hits and get her range again. For her attacking and stuff...... I'd say it would be required for her to have a basic knowledge. Not enough to kick butt, but enough to stay alive.

About Rick's grammar... he has improved. But I must say, using a spellchecker in microsoft word would help a lot. Even if he just clicked "accept change" on everything, it would still be better. EVERYONE needs to use a sellchecker. me especially. Those in the chatroom and on AIM will vouch for that. I'm a horrible typer and speller.

For Beta readers though... I won't say to get one. It HELPS, yes, and I would say to be a good writer it would almost be required. I don't like beta readers. In fact I loath and despise them. I don't want anyone to change my stories, even if it's fixing a typo. That typo is mine, and it was done by me, and I don't want anything changed. I also don't trust them. Angel is the only exception to this rule. I trust and love her, so she can change my works. Allowing someone to alter what you've done is either very easy or very hard. I just happen to fall on that very hard side >.<

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by Satashi

EVERYONE needs to use a sellchecker. me especially.

I chuckled.

[Tempy]

Originally Posted by Comartemis

Alright folks, listen up.

Your beloved writer, Evil_Rick, has asked me to confirm his fanfiction writing credentials and the quality of his stories with the local residents. Rick seems to believe that his fanfiction is so wonderful that merely having posted it is proof that he is an awesome writer, so I want opinions on Rick's work from everyone who reads this post. And don't say "Well he's a good writer" and don't say "He's a shitty writer" either; give me reasons why Rick's work is good or bad or utterly horrible.

Rick has quite literally asked for this, so don't be afraid to tell him exactly what you think of his work. Anything you say, no matter how scathing or critical it may be, will only help Rick to realize his failings and produce better, higher-quality work in the future.

Well, I see you've gone and done it, eh?

The guy has blistering writing and drawing speed, and I've said it before that his graphic design is pretty good, better than I can ever do. However I'll be blunt: I can't read any of his stories. The grammar and spelling is so bad it makes my head hurt just trying to read and interpret it. I'm pretty sure he's got good ideas, but the way he communicates them frankly needs a lot of work. I can't really comment on his art, as I don't do any myself, but it too suffers from the same problems. The art direction is... lackluster.

Also, Jail in Battlesuit does not compute.

Originally Posted by Satashi

EVERYONE needs to use a sellchecker. me especially.

So it seems.

[Seraph42]

Originally Posted by Comartemis

Alright folks, listen up.

Your beloved writer, Evil_Rick, has asked me to confirm his fanfiction writing credentials and the quality of his stories with the local residents. Rick seems to believe that his fanfiction is so wonderful that merely having posted it is proof that he is an awesome writer, so I want opinions on Rick's work from everyone who reads this post. And don't say "Well he's a good writer" and don't say "He's a shitty writer" either; give me reasons why Rick's work is good or bad or utterly horrible.

Rick has quite literally asked for this, so don't be afraid to tell him exactly what you think of his work. Anything you say, no matter how scathing or critical it may be, will only help Rick to realize his failings and produce better, higher-quality work in the future.

I have to say I like his works. His Ideas are good plus he tends to up date quickly.
The only thing I have a Problem with, and its been mentioned a lot, is his grammar. I understand that English isn't his primary language but I bet that most of us wouldn't mind if he PMed us for the correct spelling.

On a side note my grammar sucks, and English is my primary Language (thank God for spellcheck)

[Sheba]

He have grammar and spelling issues, something I am about as guilty of, it'll improve should he bother doing it.

As for the drawing style, sorry I won't comment, my brothers spoiled me.

Characterization of canon characters, Jail in a battlesuit and cqc Caro? Questionable, for it goes against the very outlines of the characters. However, would you like me to remind you all the debacle over MELEEFIGHTING Hayate Yagami that ALWAYS crawls back in OCT?

Now, the ideas. He have ideas, how he implement them needs work. It's something you do not gain overnight but through work, obstinacy AND the will to take a step back and rethink.

Quantity vs quality. So long the author gets something like a chapter, a one-shot or a snippet DONE, and as long as there are quality, I can live with it. Moorcock writes a LOT, a good portion of his works are good, Tolkien only wrote a little, but what he wrote was still good.

[Comartemis]

Why didn't Rick ask this himself?

Because Rick cannot be trusted to give an unbiased opinion of his own work. This is true for everyone but with Rick it's especially noticable because he seems to think he can do no wrong. I accuse him of Character Derailment with Battlesuit Jail and Fisticuffs Caro and he tells me

Originally Posted by Evil Rick

That's the diference between you and me Comar, you give up really easy in terms of creativity, while I'm gonna try waht everyone think is imposible

Setting aside the fact that the boy has seen nothing of my work whereas I have at least taken a cursory glance at his art (MY EYES! THEY BUUUUUUUURN!!!), Rick apparently cannot differentiate between creativity and crack. And by crack I don't mean the amusing kind that Kha spews out on a regular basis, I mean the type that makes absolutely no sense and turns his fics into steaming piles of crap because he's violating laws of common sense and character usage.

In this case, the way a character approaches a combat situation is as much a part of their personality as their likes and dislikes. Caro isn't going to go hand-to-hand with anyone because she hasn't been trained to fight that way and hurting people even in self-defense really isn't in her nature anyways. Likewise, Jail isn't going to go out on the front lines in Space Marine armor to kick magical girl ass; it's not in his character to work that way, he's a manipulator who sits around in his lab and lets other people do his dirty work for him. But when I try to explain this to Rick he blows it off and says "Wait and see, I'll pull this off!" without even offering an explanation as to how he intends to do so.

He is so blindly confident in his own abilities that he automatically assumes everyone who criticizes him is discriminating against him because English isn't his first language. Which, by the way, is absolutely not an excuse for poor writing; I know several non-native English-speakers on my old boards and on the OC thread who have a better grasp of the language than I do.

However, would you like me to remind you all the debacle over MELEEFIGHTING Hayate Yagami that ALWAYS crawls back in OCT?

Melee Hayate is at least somewhat plausible with the right sort of character development in the timeskip. Hayate's Godhaxx magic can easily make up for an unusually frail body with SS-ranked enhancement spells.

Just because you want your Touhou avatar doesn't mean there aren't other ways for Hayate to fight. Her Mage Knight status means that she could potentially be the most flexible mage in the series if she just had the proper training, but Caro and Jail have established skill sets and personalities that run against the idea of them doing any direct combat stuff.

The key here, however, is that Melee Hayate is an alternate character interpretation for usage with AUs, as opposed to her canon role as a field commander and human artillery battery. Rick is apparently trying to pass off Battlesuit Jail and Melee Caro as being possible within the bounds of canon. See the difference?

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by Comartemis

The key here, however, is that Melee Hayate is an alternate character interpretation for usage with AUs, as opposed to her canon role as a field commander and human artillery battery. Rick is apparently trying to pass off Battlesuit Jail and Melee Caro as being possible within the bounds of canon. See the difference?

He is doing exactly what you are trying to pull! He is trying to explore an alternate character interpretation in a AU. Yes, melee Hayate goes against the character as much as battlesuit Jail and melee Caro, and it is not just a matter of powerlevel (SS+, A, D) or semantic (the ambiguity of the term Mage Knight IN the Nanohaverse, potentially misinterpreted).

By the way, your words are pretty 'loaded', to say the least. You ought to reword some of your sentences, and make them less 'haughty'.

[Comartemis]

He is trying to explore an alternate character interpretation in a AU.

I wouldn't know if Battlesuit Jail is being used in an AU because I haven't read the fic in question, so I'll let this one go. But how do you excuse his usage of Battlesuit Quattro in his Techno Union doujins, which are supposedly a follow-up to StrikerS? An illusion specialist going hand-to-hand with Nanoha? Give me a freaking break! I may as well make a Harry Potter fic where Harry totes around an assault rifle and a bandoleer of grenades!

[Kagerou]

Originally Posted by Comartemis

I wouldn't know if Battlesuit Jail is being used in an AU because I haven't read the fic in question, so I'll let this one go. But how do you excuse his usage of Battlesuit Quattro in his Techno Union doujins, which are supposedly a follow-up to StrikerS? An illusion specialist going hand-to-hand with Nanoha? Give me a freaking break! I may as well make a Harry Potter fic where Harry totes around an assault rifle and a bandoleer of grenades!

...Er... about that....
*me and Goose hide the old HP fanfic we were working on*

[Seraph42]

Originally Posted by Comartemis

But how do you excuse his usage of Battlesuit Quattro in his Techno Union doujins, which are supposedly a follow-up to StrikerS? An illusion specialist going hand-to-hand with Nanoha?

Didn't the Emperor have her modified in the doujin.

[Comartemis]

Originally Posted by Kagerou

...Er... about that....
*me and Goose hide the old HP fanfic we were working on*

...



Well I could at least expect you two to pull it off with some degree of flair.

Originally Posted by Seraph42

Didn't the Emperor have her modified in the doujin.

I wouldn't know because I didn't read more than a few pages before I gave up trying to read it. But Quattro, like Jail, isn't the kind to fight her battles in person.

If I were going to write a Quattro vs Nanoha battle, I'd do one of two things:

1) I'd foreshadow the idea that Quattro is hiding something from her sisters, then have her betray the second generation Numbers during the final showdown. Having accomplished some objective of her own, she and the other first generation Numbers return to their true master, the Original Jail Scaglietti--because the one we see in canon is a clone with modified memories that the original is using as a puppet to test the TSAB's capabilities from afar while retrieving information pulled from the Cradle's navicomputers and/or the Relics. The next time Nanoha meets Quattro, Q has been upgraded into a Relic Weapon with all the capabilities of the second generation Numbers, along Uno, Due and Tre who have similar upgrades. Each of the four first generation Numbers is now a match for each of the Aces.

Or....

2) I'd give Quattro a hidden ace up her sleeve, a maxed-out Illusion IS that creates something akin to a Reality Marble wherein she possesses complete control over her enemy's senses, a la Sousuke Aizen. She then proceeds to fight with Nanoha using trickery and deception instead of a head-to-head confrontation.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by Comartemis

I wouldn't know if Battlesuit Jail is being used in an AU because I haven't read the fic in question, so I'll let this one go. But how do you excuse his usage of Battlesuit Quattro in his Techno Union doujins, which are supposedly a follow-up to StrikerS? An illusion specialist going hand-to-hand with Nanoha? Give me a freaking break! I may as well make a Harry Potter fic where Harry totes around an assault rifle and a bandoleer of grenades!

The instant one design a post-StrikerS story, it is pretty much a AU. Then it depends on how much post strikers material it included (the ones from the Sound Stage), how close to original canon it is, and if the author did it tastefully and smoothly. We are NOT 7Arcs, none of our shit will ever be canon or included in canon, all the authors can do is to write and show their own take on the universe, and do it right, in respect of the original material, our own ability and potential, and the readership.

[Seraph42]

Originally Posted by Comartemis

I wouldn't know because I didn't read more than a few pages before I gave up trying to read it. But Quattro, like Jail, isn't the kind to fight her battles in person.

True, but the Emperor did what he did for his own amusement.

Originally Posted by Comartemis

If I were going to write a Quattro vs Nanoha battle, I'd do one of two things:

1) I'd foreshadow the idea that Quattro is hiding something from her sisters, then have her betray the second generation Numbers during the final showdown. Having accomplished some objective of her own, she and the other first generation Numbers return to their true master, the Original Jail Scaglietti--because the one we see in canon is a clone with modified memories that the original is using as a puppet to test the TSAB's capabilities from afar while retrieving information pulled from the Cradle's navicomputers and/or the Relics. The next time Nanoha meets Quattro, Q has been upgraded into a Relic Weapon with all the capabilities of the second generation Numbers, along Uno, Due and Tre who have similar upgrades. Each of the four first generation Numbers is now a match for each of the Aces.

Or....

2) I'd give Quattro a hidden ace up her sleeve, a maxed-out Illusion IS that creates something akin to a Reality Marble wherein she possesses complete control over her enemy's senses, a la Sousuke Aizen. She then proceeds to fight with Nanoha using trickery and deception instead of a head-to-head confrontation.

Both are excellent Ideas
* hint hint*
(psst, some use these ideas)

Originally Posted by Sheba

The instant one design a post-StrikerS story, it is pretty much a AU. Then it depends on how much post strikers material it included (the ones from the Sound Stage), how close to original canon it is, and if the author did it tastefully and smoothly. We are NOT 7Arcs, none of our shit will ever be canon or included in canon, all the authors can do is to write and show their own take on the universe, and do it right, in respect of the original material, our own ability and potential, and the readership.

I raise my cup to you sir

[Comartemis]

The instant one design a post-StrikerS story, it is pretty much a AU.

No Sheba, that's a continuation fic. AUs are complete alternate universes, not just expansions on the story. If Rick were writing a fic where Jail was a more.... physically-oriented sort of scientist I might be more forgiving with this, but if Vita: Shadows of the Past is a continuation fic then Rick's take on Jail will have to logically follow Jail's character (as opposed to doing something completely off the wall like turning him into a philanthropist; "I learned my lesson in prison miss Takamachi, honest! Scout's honor, even!").

[Satashi]

Originally Posted by Sheba

We are NOT 7Arcs, none of our shit will ever be canon or included in canon, all the authors can do is to write and show their own take on the universe, and do it right, in respect of the original material, our own ability and potential, and the readership.

*applauds* no matter what is being said right now, it's still all personal opinion. If Rick can do it or pull it off depends on him and how others perceive it. Even if you are 100% against the idea, it's still up to the writer to do it.

Hell let's see what I've done...

Fate= standard teenager and WoW addict who likes to "have fun" alone in her bedroom.

Nanoha= A teen model who poses for magazines

Vivio= A porn star

Syn (lol) = A foot fetish girl who loves to cook

Erio= A special blooded knight that is highly enhanced by magic and wears battle armor given to him by "his princesses"

Caro= A complete dragon summoner who has different dragons depending on her mood

.........So yeah, it's all on the writer. We can do whatever we want as long as we try to back it up. If Rick wants to do it, let'm do it. I caught holy hell on Saved by the Bell because of my characters, but at the end, it turned out being really popular and accepted.

Rick, if you're reading this, keep trying what you want to do. Back it up and have confidence in your work. At the same time, do take what was being said into consideration. Remember, a true creator has to not only have pride but be humble enough to see the flaws of their own work. Even if you're confident in, for example, Jail in a battle suit.... Take a moment. Sit back and just think about it. Try to think "why would someone NOT like this?" and then try to answer it. If you need to alter something, go ahead and alter it. Let the negativity influence you a bit. re-shape and re-mold it if you must. MAKE it work, make it more believable.

Remember, even someone who is "popular" or considered "a god or goddess", has been told,quite a few times, that something just wasn't right. I've re-written many endings and stories because people didn't quite go for what I wanted to happen. Fans are highly important and their complaints can really make you improve.

@Keroko: I'm glad I made you chuckle :3