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Old 2014-10-06, 19:16   Link #34861
ganbaru
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Join Date: Dec 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KiraYamatoFan View Post
I know the A-10 is still useful, but I always keep wondering what its successor will eventually look like should there be plans of a new breed of ground support planes somewhere.
I read somewhere than the F-35 is the airplane supposed to take over the ground support role.
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Old 2014-10-07, 06:57   Link #34862
JokerD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganbaru View Post
I read somewhere than the F-35 is the airplane supposed to take over the ground support role.
Yeah, they didn't learn anything from the failed attempt of the f-16 to take over from the A-10
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Old 2014-10-07, 07:10   Link #34863
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JokerD View Post
Yeah, they didn't learn anything from the failed attempt of the f-16 to take over from the A-10
They are borrowing the concept of the attack helicopter - it can do the same CAS role as the A-10 except that it can't hit heavy bunkers with its loadout. An A-10 can lay anything into mother earth a bomber can. Also it eliminates the problems helicopters have currently - namely thin air and downwash problems.

That is why the F-35 has a hover capability; the concept is good but the technology does not allow. Not until we reduce the size of the thrust nozzle and fix our lift-weight ratio problems.
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Old 2014-10-07, 11:31   Link #34864
Bri
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JokerD View Post
Yeah, they didn't learn anything from the failed attempt of the f-16 to take over from the A-10
While the A-10 is probably better at close air support than the F-35, it's certainly not as good at raising Lockheed profits or providing retired air force brass with private sector consultancy jobs.
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Old 2014-10-07, 11:34   Link #34865
Mr Hat and Clogs
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^^ that's the important thing! I guess. Hehe
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Old 2014-10-08, 00:28   Link #34866
kyp275
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bri View Post
While the A-10 is probably better at close air support than the F-35, it's certainly not as good at raising Lockheed profits or providing retired air force brass with private sector consultancy jobs.
aye, which is why the Air Force have continued over and over again throughout the years to kill the A-10.

The F-35 does not, and in all likelihood will never even remotely come close to being nearly as capable in close air support as the A-10. If CAS is like hauling a heavy load to a construction site, then the A-10 is your V10 F650 super truck, and the F35 would be a BRZ with a jury-rigged hitch at the back attached to a dinky trailer.
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Old 2014-10-08, 01:26   Link #34867
risingstar3110
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I am not a aircraft nerd, so don't shoot the messenger. But read somewhere before about how there is different in strategy when it comes to aircraft design of US and their closest rival Russia.

As in US tends to design an ideal aircraft where eventually they will replace all 2 seats planes with F22 and F35.

The Russia meanwhile designed each plane excel for each different purpose in their military strategy. So they will still end up having a bunch of variables in their inventories, which currently are Sukhoi 24,25,27,30,35, 37, 47, Pak-Fa and then Mig 29, 31, 33, 35 (i know some will be replaced by another , but can't care enough to look on it)
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Old 2014-10-08, 03:37   Link #34868
Ithekro
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The US has been attempting to standardize military equipment. While this in theory reduces the number of manufactures (it doesn't) it is suppose to make it easy to get repalcement parts and to train personel to work on things since no matter what bse or ship they go to the stuff will be basically the same.

More or less one ot two classes of every type of ship (two carrier classes, one cruiser class, one destroyer class), Reduce the numbers of different fighter in all branches. Long ago it was the F-4 Phanton II in all services. More recently it has been the F/A-18 that it used in multiple branches. Soon it will be the F-35.
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Old 2014-10-08, 03:51   Link #34869
Yu Ominae
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http://edition.cnn.com/2014/10/07/wo...kong-protests/

CNN reports on how some parts of the public are against the protests due to job security.
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Old 2014-10-08, 06:58   Link #34870
Bri
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Quote:
Originally Posted by risingstar3110 View Post
I am not a aircraft nerd, so don't shoot the messenger. But read somewhere before about how there is different in strategy when it comes to aircraft design of US and their closest rival Russia.

As in US tends to design an ideal aircraft where eventually they will replace all 2 seats planes with F22 and F35.

The Russia meanwhile designed each plane excel for each different purpose in their military strategy. So they will still end up having a bunch of variables in their inventories, which currently are Sukhoi 24,25,27,30,35, 37, 47, Pak-Fa and then Mig 29, 31, 33, 35 (i know some will be replaced by another , but can't care enough to look on it)
The whole multirole aircraft philosophy is a cost saving operation. Roughly 3/4 of the total lifetime cost of an aircraft is in operations and the support infrastructure. Reducing the number of aircraft types in service leads to economies of scale and less duplication of support networks.

The problem is that multirole designs lead to suboptimal performance in some areas as the design is inherently a compromise between different and sometimes conflicting battlefield requirements. It doesn't help that the Air Force doesn't consider CAS as their core business, so that role's requirements have not been a major factor in the F-35's specs.

The Russian aircraft inventory dates back to the Soviet era where cost was not a factor since they didn't have a market based economy. Every military requirement was simply met with a different design.
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Old 2014-10-08, 11:06   Link #34871
Cosmic Eagle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JokerD View Post
Yeah, they didn't learn anything from the failed attempt of the f-16 to take over from the A-10
F-16 is a pretty good fighter-bomber though...
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Old 2014-10-08, 11:39   Link #34872
kyp275
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle View Post
F-16 is a pretty good fighter-bomber though...
Which is a different role than CAS. A 500 pounder isn't going to do me any good when I'm pinned down by enemy forces nearby, not when I'd just as likely to ride the express train to oblivion along with the intended target.
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Old 2014-10-08, 11:54   Link #34873
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyp275 View Post
Which is a different role than CAS. A 500 pounder isn't going to do me any good when I'm pinned down by enemy forces nearby, not when I'd just as likely to ride the express train to oblivion along with the intended target.
Say this with me :

"Our Father which art in heaven, hallowed in thy name........"
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When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2014-10-08, 12:11   Link #34874
LoveYouSaber
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yu Ominae View Post
http://edition.cnn.com/2014/10/07/wo...kong-protests/

CNN reports on how some parts of the public are against the protests due to job security.
Yep, and the complaints are largest in Mong Kok which is more of a shopping district, so I guess the consequences are greater for business owners there, while in Admiralty (where government buildings and financial industry is), things are actually quite "normal" - since people can go to work, so I think the disruption isn't that serious in Admiralty.

Protester numbers have thinned quite a bit as well as pointed out by the article, but it's hard to tell whether it's because everyone's looking forward to the talks between students and the government. If that goes badly, we might see protester numbers rising again.

Meanwhile, though, the under-fire Chief Executive is involved in a scandal, and given the timing, it's really a bit too convenient...

HK leader given 'secret' payment by Australian firm

Last edited by LoveYouSaber; 2014-10-08 at 12:53.
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Old 2014-10-08, 12:23   Link #34875
Mr Hat and Clogs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
Say this with me :

"Our Father which art in heaven, hallowed in thy name........"
"Duck and cover."
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Old 2014-10-08, 12:57   Link #34876
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Hat and Clogs View Post
"Duck and cover."
I have seen what 50g of C4 can do. 500 pounds (approx 450g) of TNT would be making a crater big enough that jumping into a foxhole won't work.
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When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2014-10-08, 13:24   Link #34877
Ithekro
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The F-16 can't loiter around very well, nor is it good for slow, and low passes. The F-35 may or may not be good at the role, but it can hover, which might make it viable, if costly (in fuel) replacement for the A-10.

But there is little that can match the firepower the A-10 can bring to the area.
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Old 2014-10-08, 13:29   Link #34878
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
The F-16 can't loiter around very well, nor is it good for slow, and low passes. The F-35 may or may not be good at the role, but it can hover, which might make it viable, if costly (in fuel) replacement for the A-10.

But there is little that can match the firepower the A-10 can bring to the area.
Well it IS built to counter USSR's potential tank rushes in the Cold War.

I say we plug drone tech in there, reinforce the airframe, buff the engines so it can hold more bombs then turn it into a literal flying tank.
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When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2014-10-08, 14:44   Link #34879
Ithekro
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True, it was designed to fly over Germany to stop walls of T-60 and T-72 tanks from reaching Bonn.
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Old 2014-10-08, 15:30   Link #34880
sneaker
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Yeah, everyone involved had to read Hans-Ulrich Rudel's biography. He had lots of experience fighting the Russians.
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