(CR) Nejimaki Seirei Senki: Tenkyou no Alderamin (Alderamin on the Sky)

[felix]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

There are plenty of examples of conquered countries that still retained enough self-identity to secede later.

But before asking how Ikta will do it, I'd like to ask why he'd do it. Does he care at all if the Empire's culture disappears?

Though Yatori will defend the Empire to the death. That's the big problem.

Ikta comes off as patriotic, but also completely pesimistic of his own country. Kind of the modern "I love my country, but also hate everything about it." attitude.

[Rokumonsen]

The Princess specifically said "lose a war", not "lose the empire".

[SeijiSensei]

It sounded to me like they agreed that they needed to lose the war to save the Empire.

[ImperialFlameGod8190]

Originally Posted by Flower

Just so I am double sure I am on the same page here ... when you say "the problem is this" you mean with the series in general, I assume, but more specifically the weaknesses of the series as you speculate may impact the possibilities of the anime being a "successful financial investment" as well as any future anime adaptations, yes?

Correct.

Originally Posted by felix

Ikta comes off as patriotic, but also completely pesimistic of his own country. Kind of the modern "I love my country, but also hate everything about it." attitude.

Where in the world did you get that. Ikta hates this country about as much as the princess. He only appears to love 2 things. Yatori and science. He's said on multiple occasions he hates everything about this country and its methods. his only motivation to be where he is was to get Yatori away from a rotten system. The guy hates the idea of being a soldier.

[TheForsaken]

He hates the government, but not the people.
I think he does care about everyone, not just Yatori.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by felix

Ikta comes off as patriotic, but also completely pesimistic of his own country. Kind of the modern "I love my country, but also hate everything about it." attitude.

He cares nothing about his country. He loves his friends (especially Yatori), and his friends are patriotic (especially Yatori).

Originally Posted by SeijiSensei

It sounded to me like they agreed that they needed to lose the war to save the Empire.

Yes, they do, but Ikta doesn't want to save the Empire. It's possible he wants to save the people in the Empire.

[ImperialFlameGod8190]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

He cares nothing about his country. He loves his friends (especially Yatori), and his friends are patriotic (especially Yatori).

He's firmly admitted he doesnt like Torway because of his pretty boy status. He tolerates him because of his ability. He is tolerable of Matthew. He wants to fuck haro. As for Yatori he's said on multiple occasions he's doing what he's doing to free Yatori from this country

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Yes, they do, but Ikta doesn't want to save the Empire. It's possible he wants to save the people in the Empire.

He wants to save Yatori. his mother is gone his father is gone the only person he cares about is Yatori. Simple as you like

[Zefyris]

Originally Posted by ImperialFlameGod8190

He's firmly admitted he doesnt like Torway because of his pretty boy status. He tolerates him because of his ability. He is tolerable of Matthew. He wants to fuck haro. As for Yatori he's said on multiple occasions he's doing what he's doing to free Yatori from this country

He respects a lot torway for being able to remain "himself" during war. He gives a lot of importance to Matthew (his "my friend Matthew" aren't ironic here, Ikta considers Matthew as his friend and it was already like that in the first episode, those 3 as stated come from the same school, Ikta knows Matthew since several years).
I think most anime watchers probably thought that Matthew was mostly here for comic relief or something like that (if not right now, at least at first) but the fact is, it's Ikta who genuinely went toward Matthew to become his friend, and that Matthew was the first and only person since his mother and father died that made him want to become friends. For Ikta, Matthew has an immense value. Not as much as Yatori who is pretty much as a "twin sister and only remaining family" status, but you get the picture. He's Ikta's best friend. Ikta was attracted towards Matthew due to Matthew's qualities (qualities he's noit really self aware off ) as a person and a human.
And Ikta became more and more attached to Torway across the series.

As for Haroma, no, he doesn't simply 'want to fuck her".

[TheForsaken]

Originally Posted by ImperialFlameGod8190

He's firmly admitted he doesnt like Torway because of his pretty boy status. He tolerates him because of his ability. He is tolerable of Matthew. He wants to fuck haro. As for Yatori he's said on multiple occasions he's doing what he's doing to free Yatori from this country

These statements are wrong on so many levels that I have no idea how to reply.
Are we watching the same anime?

[ImperialFlameGod8190]

Originally Posted by Zefyris

He respects a lot torway for being able to remain "himself" during war. He gives a lot of importance to Matthew (his "my friend Matthew" aren't ironic here, Ikta considers Matthew as his friend and it was already like that in the first episode, those 3 as stated come from the same school, Ikta knows Matthew since several years).
I think most anime watchers probably thought that Matthew was mostly here for comic relief or something like that (if not right now, at least at first) but the fact is, it's Ikta who genuinely went toward Matthew to become his friend, and that Matthew was the first and only person since his mother and father died that made him want to become friends. For Ikta, Matthew has an immense value. Not as much as Yatori who is pretty much as a "twin sister and only remaining family" status, but you get the picture. He's Ikta's best friend. Ikta was attracted towards Matthew due to Matthew's qualities (qualities he's noit really self aware off ) as a person and a human.
And Ikta became more and more attached to Torway across the series.

As for Haroma, no, he doesn't simply 'want to fuck her".

I admit to having missed a ton of stuff from the LN after the sinark tribe but honestly Matthew has been mostly comic relief. You dont get the deep connection you're talking about from the anime though i dont doubt it exists. Sure they talk about that stuff in a military sense but what i'm referring to is a personal level. he was more then willing to dismiss matthew if he had a chance.

As for Haro he was definitely after haro at first but as he said due to military regulations he cant act. (That and Yatori would never let him get the space. he tried to bed her quite a few times)

Ikta's relationship with Torway is mainly one of a commander and his best weapon. His ability wtih the rifle is something he values but on a personal level he doesnt like him and constantly reminds him of the pretty boy thing.

Yatori's is twin sister though i'd wager there's some serious tension under the surface.

Originally Posted by TheForsaken

These statements are wrong on so many levels that I have no idea how to reply.
Are we watching the same anime?

Yes we are. Most of what i've mentioned is personal opinion of the person. What most are looking at is the relationship from a militaristic side.

[Arya]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Yes, they do, but Ikta doesn't want to save the Empire. It's possible he wants to save the people in the Empire.

The (Princess) goal in fact didn't sound like lose the war to save the empire, but more like lose the war in a way to make the empire progress into something better, where the better is ultimately directed to and beneficial for the people.
The structure of a country is a reflection of its culture to a certain extent so the moment you are ready to give up your own culture you are also undermining everything related to it. It sounds very "scientific", that's why Ikta will do it anyways. In a way the princess goal is more close to a revolution than anything else.
Or at least that's how it sounded to me.

Certainly Ikta's biggest issue of this whole scheme, is Yatori, as usual.

[felix]

Pretty sure the intention here is for them to get occupied, but in the best terms possible; political representation, etc. Something along the lines of the UK.

And I'm gonna stick with my interpretation that Ikta only really hates the bureaucrats and not the culture or country itself.

[Sinestra]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

There are plenty of examples of conquered countries that still retained enough self-identity to secede later.

But before asking how Ikta will do it, I'd like to ask why he'd do it. Does he care at all if the Empire's culture disappears?

Though Yatori will defend the Empire to the death. That's the big problem.

From what i seem to understand about Ikta is he detest the empire but the people in it are a different story. Its not the culture of the empire he hates its the corruption of the empire itself. Also, given that Yatori is literally bound to the empire which like you stated presents a very big problem. I honestly dont know if he will go along with it. But i do agree if there is anyone who can pull it off its him. I feel its unreasonable request as there are other ways to change the empire if the princess was in charge.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Sinestra

From what i seem to understand about Ikta is he detest the empire but the people in it are a different story. Its not the culture of the empire he hates its the corruption of the empire itself.

I don't think he actively hates the "culture", whatever that means, but he would consider sacrificing actual lives for so abstract a concept to be "unscientific".

Also, given that Yatori is literally bound to the empire which like you stated presents a very big problem. I honestly dont know if he will go along with it.

Yes, and it's a problem no matter what kind of loss he goes for, limited or total.

But i do agree if there is anyone who can pull it off its him. I feel its unreasonable request as there are other ways to change the empire if the princess was in charge.

I'm not so sure. Part of the problem is that the corruption's so widespread, not even the Emperor could do much about it. And it would take a coup (or a long series of coincidental deaths) to put the princess on the throne. Not to mention a coup would turn Yatori into his enemy, defeating the whole purpose.

[Rasty]

^ You sure? She is serving the Empire. Doing a coup that would give the power back to the Empiror or the princess (rightfull heir of the throne, though not 1st place) is not something against the Empire. No matter what I find the plan given by the princess as hard, costly in lives and not leading to the best results possibe. Using "accidental deaths", political power and military one (even a coup) seems much more viable and better solution.

In the end it is based on the (in modern japan works so popular) belief, that republic is the best and all saving system and this is the only way to force it. While I am not gonna state democracy is bad or something like that, it deffinitely needs rather high level of education and society level to have at least a chance of being good and lets say it straight, there is nothing like that in the Empire. Just changing the ruler is better than forcing in a system that won't work anyway.

[abhjetgon]

Heh, finally caved in & watched the final episode. Jean & ikta certainly ended their encounter on an interesting note, there's feeling that they're kinda similar in approach but different in ideologies.
I recently saw that 90% bluff & 10& possibility in Tokyo ravens as well, might just be a Japanese metaphor.
And of course the series ended with that princess' plan declaration with ikta. It's certainly going to put a crack in ikta & yatori (so much foreshadowing been there). [I HATE THIS, THEY'RE SO GOOD TOGETHER]
Good visuals, never much extravagant but it could've been a lot of worse. Good ost too. This wasn't anywhere a perfect series, and certainly has flaws - but it has some very good positives. Overall a good watch, 7/10. I'll be forever salty this wasn't a two-cour series, or the season 2 it's never going to get.

[Arya]

Originally Posted by Rasty

^ You sure? She is serving the Empire. Doing a coup that would give the power back to the Empiror or the princess (rightfull heir of the throne, though not 1st place) is not something against the Empire. No matter what I find the plan given by the princess as hard, costly in lives and not leading to the best results possibe. Using "accidental deaths", political power and military one (even a coup) seems much more viable and better solution.

In the end it is based on the (in modern japan works so popular) belief, that republic is the best and all saving system and this is the only way to force it. While I am not gonna state democracy is bad or something like that, it deffinitely needs rather high level of education and society level to have at least a chance of being good and lets say it straight, there is nothing like that in the Empire. Just changing the ruler is better than forcing in a system that won't work anyway.

Well, that's why the princess mentioned Kioka culture to infiltrate. It doesn't matter which form of government is used if the culture of the country is corrupted. The best and most difficult way should be to "educate" the people, and that's kinda what the Princess was suggesting, that's why i think Ikta find it very scientific. Letting another (supposedly better/open minded/whatever) culture infiltrate your own should be a wise choice. Then sure it's far far easier said than done and it could backfire you, but at least on paper it's the right way.

[Top Sergeant]

I got to listen to some of the English dub this morning and it was really well done.

[AnimeFangirl]

Finally got round to watching this. It wasn't bad at all, but even a non-light novel reader like myself could tell a lot had been cut out, particularly regarding the culture and political structure of the country and the backstories of Bada Sankrei and of the princess. I'm not a fan of those shows where you have to read the LN to get any sort of closure so I hope they'll make a season two someday.