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Old 2017-07-22, 08:13   Link #61
SeijiSensei
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From my time over the past couple of years at MAL, "old" to many current viewers is anything made before 2010. For me it goes back to maybe the mid-90's. My favorite period remains 2006-2008.
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Old 2017-07-23, 01:19   Link #62
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Originally Posted by SeijiSensei View Post
From my time over the past couple of years at MAL, "old" to many current viewers is anything made before 2010. For me it goes back to maybe the mid-90's. My favorite period remains 2006-2008.
Ditto for me. I really miss the cyberpunk, sci-fi, and fantasy themed stuff from the late 80's through the early 2k's. Much of it was junk, admittedly, but it was an addicting recipe: one part genre of interest, two parts Japanese cultural magic. I'm not so much a fan of how things have turned out since 2008, unfortunately. Nostalgia is a bitch.
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Old 2017-10-27, 09:42   Link #63
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Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor View Post
For those who dismissed old shows just because they're old and look “crappy”, well… I’ll just say this to you: if you consider yourself an anime fan, you’re truly missing out, a lot. Some stuffs from the 80s & 90s
Tell me, what are the awesome shows from the 30s? Or really anything from 1977 and older? As far as I know everything of that time sucks. And for the Eighties and newer, any dedicated fan will eventually watch most of that, because there's only so much new anime before you run out of material. But be warned, older anime do have an expiry date and it's unknown, but the longer you wait, the more likely it is that a big chunk of old anime will be lost to you forever.

And really, if this isn't awesome, then what is? I definitely need to rewatch that show and I never expected to say this about an anime with 195+2 TV episodes, 11 OVA episodes and 6 movies.
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Old 2017-10-27, 10:49   Link #64
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Originally Posted by 0cean View Post
Tell me, what are the awesome shows from the 30s? Or really anything from 1977 and older? As far as I know everything of that time sucks.
Rose of Versailles and Mobile Suit Gundam are from 1979. Close enough to the period you've listed.
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Old 2017-10-27, 12:43   Link #65
Obelisk ze Tormentor
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Originally Posted by 0cean View Post
Tell me, what are the awesome shows from the 30s? Or really anything from 1977 and older? As far as I know everything of that time sucks.
Are your questions above rhetoric and meant to be an argument against my comment, or are those genuine questions?

If those are meant to be an argument, this is my answer: the old anime that I mostly meant in the post that you quoted are from the 80s & 90s (as I clearly wrote there). So why are you arguing my comments by asking me to mention anime from the 30s and older than 70s? (which clearly wasn't my point) Also, I'm sure the 30s Japan didn't have anime. Anime haven't even been born yet at that time IIRC. There were animated shorts in 1910s-1930s but a real anime didn't really exist before the 40s AFAIK. As for whether a show "sucks" or not, that really depends on the audience, but you can't deny achievements.

If those comment of yours are genuine questions, this is my answer: my taste clearly doesn't speak for everyone's but I'll just to throw it here: I do like Space Battleship Yamato (1974-onwards) and Tetsuwan Atom (1963). In some cases, I'd rather rewatch them than rewatch some post-2000s sci-fi mecha anime that didn't know what they wanted to be (or do) and ended up being a big pile of mess (eg. Captain Earth, E7 AO, Valvrave, Nobunaga the Fool, etc). And those two oldies are indeed classics and their achievements can't be denied. Oh, and there's also the fun super robot anime like Gaiking (1976) and Getter Robo (1974) as I've never really into Mazinger.
Spoiler for saving space:

Quote:
Originally Posted by 0cean View Post
And for the Eighties and newer, any dedicated fan will eventually watch most of that, because there's only so much new anime before you run out of material. But be warned, older anime do have an expiry date and it's unknown, but the longer you wait, the more likely it is that a big chunk of old anime will be lost to you forever.
I think you're overestimating today's kids who claimed themselves as dedicated fans. Many of them can't tolerate pre-90s anime and some of them can't even stand pre-2000 anime for whatever reasons.

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Originally Posted by 0cean View Post
And really, if this isn't awesome, then what is? I definitely need to rewatch that show and I never expected to say this about an anime with 195+2 TV episodes, 11 OVA episodes and 6 movies.
So, you like Urusei Yatsura.....
Cool, but that doesn't really go against my comments that there are many great old anime out there. I more or less agree on that part.
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Old 2017-10-27, 14:35   Link #66
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@AntonKutovoi
I've been specific with 1977 for a reason. ; )
I mean, there always is Cutey Honey (1973) and some others, but they just ain't what they used to be. Though, that OP is still awesome to watch.


@Obelisk ze Tormentor
My point is that if you go far enough back, stuff just sucks. Eventually the question if you can even still consider it "anime" comes up. But that line is on the move. Personally, I don't consider stuff from before the Eighties to be real anime. I, of course, know the titles you listed, so my question was both genuine and insincere. Genuine, because I am indeed interested, but insincere since I know most of the stuff of that time and think it all sucks. Lots of them have great first episodes, but then they go nowhere.

This topic is kind of ambiguous with the "old shows" and all that. I was just outlining that the sentiment "old anime suck" is eventually true.


Also, I can't help but feel amused that people praise old stuff as "achievements" and "influence", but never with entertainment value, as if they knew it actually sucked. I recently watched Dracula (1931) and noticed this trend among reviewers.
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Old 2017-10-27, 15:44   Link #67
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I watch and read older series all the time. I even prefer it that way because by that point all the episodes and OAVs and sequels and any other supplementary material will be out and ready to enjoy. No waiting weeks and months for the next installment. The only disadvantage is that all discussion will have dried up by that point.
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Old 2017-10-27, 21:49   Link #68
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Originally Posted by 0cean View Post
@Obelisk ze Tormentor
My point is that if you go far enough back, stuff just sucks. Eventually the question if you can even still consider it "anime" comes up. But that line is on the move. Personally, I don't consider stuff from before the Eighties to be real anime. I, of course, know the titles you listed, so my question was both genuine and insincere. Genuine, because I am indeed interested, but insincere since I know most of the stuff of that time and think it all sucks. Lots of them have great first episodes, but then they go nowhere.

This topic is kind of ambiguous with the "old shows" and all that. I was just outlining that the sentiment "old anime suck" is eventually true.
Again, that largely depends on each individual’s open-mind and level of tolerance toward old shows. Like I said in a couple pages ago, each era has its own garbage but every era also has its own masterpieces whether or not they are dated now. And I think the expression “old anime suck” is really insulting for all the good anime in the past and people behind them who worked extra hard to make very good shows at the time. The word “sucks” to me kinda signify that the thing with that label really has next to no value. For example, labeling something sucks just because it’s episodic and “go nowhere” feels really wrong to me. If that sentiment is true then classic shows like Star Trek TOS & TNG really suck donkey balls. Sometimes, episodic is just the nature of some shows. I mean, since you like shows like Urusei Yatsura, you should at least understand that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 0cean View Post
Also, I can't help but feel amused that people praise old stuff as "achievements" and "influence", but never with entertainment value, as if they knew it actually sucked. I recently watched Dracula (1931) and noticed this trend among reviewers.
Well, in context of this thread, a number of people already expressed their genuine enjoyment of watching older anime compared to the more recent anime like the below comments from past pages:
Spoiler for saving space:
As for Dracula 1931, well, I can't speak for everybody, but I genuinely enjoy Bela Lugosi's performance in that movie. There's just something special that he brought for that character that many people tried to mimick for decades later.

Also, people praise old stuffs by mentioning and addressing their achievements is an effort to be a little more objective and factual rather than being entirely subjective.
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Old 2017-10-28, 00:48   Link #69
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Personally, I remember the shitty half baked imouto fad for a bit but I'm not sure how widespread it was. It was pretty intense in being shit though.
See this is why you don't tempt fate.

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Old 2017-10-28, 02:59   Link #70
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As for the question, how far back? I'd say as far as the Osamu Tezuka works, namely King Leo, Princess Sapphire and Astro Boy. I watched all 3, and stuff that are old like Pinky Momo, UFO Grendizer, Judo Boy. I was a kid in the 80s, and french ppl older than me tell me that they were already importing anime back in the late 70s.
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Old 2017-10-28, 04:48   Link #71
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With old anime that generally suck and are only brought up for achievements etc. I still exclusively mean stuff from before 1977. Also, there's nothing objective in evaluating anime. They're only for entertainment and that's kind of subjective. Sure, we can acknowledge the achievements of some shows, but that doesn't mean we have to like them. But then, why watch them?
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Old 2017-10-28, 06:54   Link #72
Obelisk ze Tormentor
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Also, there's nothing objective in evaluating anime. They're only for entertainment and that's kind of subjective.
Mentioning the anime's achievements based on the actual facts is an objective thing to do in anime evaluation.

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Originally Posted by 0cean View Post
Sure, we can acknowledge the achievements of some shows, but that doesn't mean we have to like them. But then, why watch them?
The discussion in this thread is never meant to force newcomers to like old anime. Instead, part of the reason is to encourage newcomers to try old anime because a number of them are truly unique and genuinely good as well as potentially entertaining (depends on the audience), and as the OP mentioned, many of today's anime new fans don't even have the willingness to try older titles and that is what we're discussing in this thread. I myself recommended the standout titles from 80s & 90s in my posts. 60s & 70s are not really my forte but I do like some titles from those eras.
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Old 2017-10-28, 07:06   Link #73
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The point is, if you want newcomers to watch it, it has to be good entertainment. If it isn't, everything else doesn't matter. And the further you go back in time, the less entertainment value there is. This means saying "old anime suck" holds true. What I'm arguing is that stuff from 2009 or 2001 or 1994 or 1983 isn't old and therefore doesn't suck.

Also, I think we shouldn't try too hard to make younger audiences like the stuff we liked at their age. After all, I didn't appreciate my forefathers doing this to me, making me read boring as fuck literary "masterpieces" in school. To the point where I nearly associated the words masterpiece and classic as something I should stay the hell away from.
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Old 2017-10-28, 07:18   Link #74
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The point is, if you want newcomers to watch it, it has to be good entertainment. If it isn't, everything else doesn't matter.
And that's the problem. How do they know something is good or not if they don't even try it? Instead, some of them instantly dismissed it after a mere glance .

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Originally Posted by 0cean View Post
What I'm arguing is that stuff from 2009 or 2001 or 1994 or 1983 isn't old and therefore doesn't suck.
If you don't consider anime from 90s & 80s old and apply that to new anime fans, you definitely have no idea what many of today's anime fans consider old. Some of them even consider the 2000s titles as old anime. Shocking, eh?

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Also, I think we shouldn't try too hard to make younger audiences like the stuff we liked at their age. After all, I didn't appreciate my forefathers doing this to me, making me read boring as fuck literary "masterpieces" in school. To the point where I nearly associated the words masterpiece and classic as something I should stay the hell away from.
"Encourage" doesn't really equal "make". What we're doing is the former. "Make" is a stronger word that tend to signify something being forced and that's not what we're doing. With the frequent complaining that you hear from relative new fans that anime tend to keep churning out "boring moe stuffs" or "wish-fullfilment stuffs" or "ecchi stuffs" and they're getting tired of it, I think it would help to recommend them some unique old titles that can rejuvenate their love and excitement for anime, don't you think?
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Old 2017-10-28, 08:38   Link #75
SeijiSensei
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Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor View Post
If you don't consider anime from 90s & 80s old and apply that to new anime fans, you definitely have no idea what many of today's anime fans consider old. Some of them even consider the 2000s titles as old anime. Shocking, eh?
No one is arguing that new fans should be hungrily devouring anime from the 1960's or 1970's. As I said before, most new fans think stuff before 2010 is somehow "old" as Obelisk observes. And anime that look like Juuni Kokuki, however lovely I might find the illustrations, are off the table.

I suspect many of those viewers hold the same opinion about monochrome movies and would be repelled by Citizen Kane or the Seven Samurai.

All of this makes sense to me, since the contemporary world seems much more attentive to style over substance in nearly every walk of life.
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Old 2017-10-28, 08:49   Link #76
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As for the question, how far back? I'd say as far as the Osamu Tezuka works, namely King Leo, Princess Sapphire and Astro Boy. I watched all 3, and stuff that are old like Pinky Momo, UFO Grendizer, Judo Boy. I was a kid in the 80s, and french ppl older than me tell me that they were already importing anime back in the late 70s.
I think French TV was showing anime like Sally The Witch even earlier than that, Magic Girl & Shoujo series being popular not only in France but also Italy Spain & some Latin American countries in the 1970s.
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Old 2017-10-28, 09:07   Link #77
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To be fair, I didn't watch much of seven years before I started with anime until I've basically watched most of the stuff inbetween. And since there's more anime coming out now then back then it will probably take newer fans just much longer than me to get to the point of watching what came before that. If they're not as dedicated, maybe they'll never get to this point, but that's fine.

I mean, it's not like older anime are actually better than the new stuff. Nostalgia aside, I mean. Just ask yourself which anime from the 1980/90/00s you discovered this year that was better than anything you'd ever seen before. Or maybe just as good or only slightly worse. I can point to shows from 2017 and 2016 that where awesome, but it's been a long fucking time since I found something older that was just as awesome.
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Old 2017-10-28, 10:02   Link #78
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I mean, it's not like older anime are actually better than the new stuff. Nostalgia aside, I mean. Just ask yourself which anime from the 1980/90/00s you discovered this year that was better than anything you'd ever seen before. Or maybe just as good or only slightly worse. I can point to shows from 2017 and 2016 that where awesome, but it's been a long fucking time since I found something older that was just as awesome.
The fact that some of today's shows is still trying to recapture the magic of older shows (and fails, in many cases) is a testament to the quality of the older shows. Dozens of post 90s mecha shows tried to recapture the Evangelion's success and many of them failed. There are 2010s procedural/futuristic shows (eg. Psycho Pass, etc) that tried to recapture the excellence of GITS: Stand Alone Complex & Cowboy Bebop but not very successful at it. Recent 2010s mecha shows like Valvrave & Aldnoah.Zero tried to be the next Code Geass but they crashed and burned at the end. I can go on, but you get the picture. Moreover, there are unique shows from the past that you'll never get today. I already mentioned some of them in Page 2 of this thread and other posters already mentioned some other titles.

There's also the fact that we got newer anime that's either a sequel, remake or adaptation/re-adaptation of yesteryear manga/anime that is so 80s & 90s & 00s in aesthetic or narrative or both. For example, we have JoJo anime, Ushio to Tora anime, Parasite anime, new Legend of the Galactic Heroes anime, new Space Battleship Yamato anime, new Tetsuwan Atom, new Cyborg 009, new Cardcaptor Sakura, new Code Geass, new FLCL, new Patlabor, new Saiyuki, new Mazinger movie, new Captain Harlock movie, new Evangelion movies, Detective Conan & Lupin III that's just keep on going and even prequel anime series for Black Jack and Tetsuwan Atom. Again, that's a testament on how memorable, precious and good those properties are.
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Old 2017-10-28, 11:47   Link #79
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It needs to be recaptured, because the original glory is lost. Success is like a candle. Slowly burning away until nothing is left.
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Old 2017-10-28, 12:09   Link #80
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It needs to be recaptured, because the original glory is lost. Success is like a candle. Slowly burning away until nothing is left.
And your point is? If you're talking about quality, those older shows I mentioned are still a lot better and than their future poor imitators.
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