Academy level jutsus are underrated

[poolfan]

Wouldn't NEJI be able to defeat Kidomaru easily if he were to use the "academy" level jutsu "kawawiri". If he knew he is going to get hit by the arrow anyway, kawarimi would be the answer, NOT 'taking the hit anyway'.

If i were a Genin, I can find so many ways to fight using just the academy level jutsus.

When i am about to get hit by an attack, I can throw a shuriken over the head of the opponent, do a "replacement" with the shuriken and purposely get hit by his attack. That way I would swap places with the shuriken and unleash a more formidable attack from behind him. We always see replacements with a convenient log of wood lying somewhere. Why not a replacement with shurikens or kunais?
Or in Naruto's case, a replacement with one of his clones.

Shuriken kagebunshin no jutsu: - think of what Tenten can do with that. Throw a hundered kunais with exploding tags on them and create 5 times more using
Shuriken kagebunshin no jutsu. Combine that move with genjutsu to create the illusion of 1000 kunais (but 500 of those are real). Even if he can easily counter the genjutsu, a slow moving opponent would be blown to bits.

Ok not exactly academy level but easy enough i guess. Any thoughts. With each manga volume, we see more and more devastating physical attacks. I'd really want to see more "Shikamaru" type ninjas who utilizes simpler jutsus to more devastating effects.

[baalthaczaar]

kagebunshin is not an academy level jutsu. plus if tenten were to do that, she would use up all her chakra then die (not a bad i dea, i dont really like her tell you the truth). plus neji needed the arrow to be connected to his body so he can run chakra through it...hes indeed kawarimi would be a helpfull jutsu, but the problem is its an academy level jutsu...meaning a skilled opponent cannot easily fooled by a kawarimi no jutsu. it worked against the mist-nin because they were chuunin,not really that skilled, i mean sasuke stood them up and he was still weak (wave country arc). and another thing, replacement with kunais or shuriken would defeat the purpose of kawarimi no jutsu.
i'll explain: a log or piece of wood is used to simulate a body getting hit by a projectile, meaning it hits the log and sticks to it, very much like a human torso. now a shuriken replacing a body would have too small of a surface area to actually have projectiles attach to it, the kunais and shuriken would just go through, thus defeating the purpose of the jutsu.

[chaz017]

Originally Posted by baalthaczaar

kagebunshin is not an academy level jutsu. plus if tenten were to do that, she would use up all her chakra then die (not a bad i dea, i dont really like her tell you the truth). plus neji needed the arrow to be connected to his body so he can run chakra through it...hes indeed kawarimi would be a helpfull jutsu, but the problem is its an academy level jutsu...meaning a skilled opponent cannot easily fooled by a kawarimi no jutsu. it worked against the mist-nin because they were chuunin,not really that skilled, i mean sasuke stood them up and he was still weak (wave country arc). and another thing, replacement with kunais or shuriken would defeat the purpose of kawarimi no jutsu.
i'll explain: a log or piece of wood is used to simulate a body getting hit by a projectile, meaning it hits the log and sticks to it, very much like a human torso. now a shuriken replacing a body would have too small of a surface area to actually have projectiles attach to it, the kunais and shuriken would just go through, thus defeating the purpose of the jutsu.

True, I don't think the point he's getting at is the "Kage"bunshin. Which yes very much so isn't an academy level jutsu. I think the point he's tryin to make is why don't more people use the simple jutsu they do know in a more clever way. He just used a bad example when he included the word "kage" anywhere in there. lol. Shikamaru is a great example though. He uses 1 jutsu(basically) in many different ways. I also think Naruto himself is very clever with the way he uses the jutsu he does know. He's one of the best at it in the series. However, it just so happens that most of Naruto's jutsu aren't academy level since he's kind of an all out fighter.

As for why the other characters don't use these simple jutsu more often. Hmm, I would have to say the answer is pretty simple. No one wants to see someone replace themselves every time they get attacked. That and exactly what baalthaczaar said. The academy level jutsu aren't used against high rank ninja because they are easily seen though. The best example of this is the clone technique. Since there is nothing physically there the dirt, leaves, water, and surrounding area aren't actually affected by this "mirage". A higher rank ninja will easily see this and the chakra would be wasted. Shadow Clone is a different matter all together which is why it isn't an academy level jutsu in that it make a physical copy of the user that does affect the surrounding area. Much more difficult(impossible for most) to see through. I think you'll still see higher ranked ninja (Kakashi, Azuma, The Third) use simple techniques against no name ninja or just to basically get a feel for things but that's about it. As for why it always seems to fool the opponent even when this opponent is Oro I couldn't say. Even when it doesn't fool them, whoever used it was planning on them knowing it was a clone and has something else planned. Must be bacause it's an anime/manga .

[poolfan]

Originally Posted by baalthaczaar

plus neji needed the arrow to be connected to his body so he can run chakra through it..
i'll explain: a log or piece of wood is used to simulate a body getting hit by a projectile, meaning it hits the log and sticks to it, very much like a human torso. now a shuriken replacing a body would have too small of a surface area to actually have projectiles attach to it, the kunais and shuriken would just go through, thus defeating the purpose of the jutsu.

I understand your point. I sort of think that shuriken kagebunshin is a much lower level jutsu than human kagebunshin though. Maybe i was thinking about FMA
I don't think you need to do a replacement with an object (log) with roughly the same surface area. This has not been stated in the manga but i thought kawarimi is all about replacing your body with another object. In fact I don't even think you need to get hit for the "replacement" to occur. If i'm falling from a cliff, i can do a replacement with a boulder on the cliff and maybe bite my tongue to activate the replacement. It's a poor man's version of the yellow flash technique and Konohamaru can do it As for neji needing the arrow to be connected, i can think of ways to do that without sacrificing my life. I can kawarimi with a log of wood 5 metres away. The arrow will pierce through the log and a few hundred tree trunks along the way so i don't think Kidoumaru will suspect that no hit is being made. Then i can slowly walk to the thread and pump my chakra into it.

Originally Posted by chaz017

As for why it always seems to fool the opponent even when this opponent is Oro I couldn't say. Even when it doesn't fool them, whoever used it was planning on them knowing it was a clone and has something else planned. Must be bacause it's an anime/manga .

Haha you are right! Everyone seems to be fooled by Kawarimi (oro and the third took turns being stunned by each other's awesome kawarimi jutsus during their fight) which is why more ninjas should use it. Maybe the reason why it isn't used more often is as you put it: the fights will end up being very boring and repetitive.

[amOKchen]

There is an aspect of speed involved as well, it's not like kawarimi teleports him away.

Char == Genin: Slowpokes, they don't see the swap.
Char >= Chunin: Will see the swap and aim for the real body anyway.

So the answer is that it becomes absolete in intense highlevel fights.

[Mr. Johnny 5]

That is not entirely true....at first i wanted to post a similair thing amOKchen untill i remembered that the 3rd Hokage used a Kawarimi on Orochimaru.
Sannin -> Hokage

Or Anko trying to use a suicide move on Orochimaru...and Orochimaru saved her by telling her just in time that it was Kawarimi. Jounin -> Sannin

She couldnt follow it or see it either...so the kawarimi is something that's a mystery.

[baalthaczaar]

well it depends on who is using it also. of course a jounin, sannin or hokage using it is very different from other nin using it (speed, chakra control, skills, etc.)

[tatami]

well its important who uses it...its different than naruto using kawarimi and 3rd using it. so no tech. is underrated...with correct timing and brains that simple kawarimi can beat tsukyomi... its not important what tech is used but who use his tech more efficiently (for me)

i mean cmon anko was fooled by that simple kawarimi yet she was up to something big...

[Hunter]

Oro used a KB to fool Anko in the manga.

[poolfan]

Originally Posted by tatami

well its important who uses it...its different than naruto using kawarimi and 3rd using it. so no tech. is underrated...with correct timing and brains that simple kawarimi can beat tsukyomi... its not important what tech is used but who use his tech more efficiently (for me)

i mean cmon anko was fooled by that simple kawarimi yet she was up to something big...

Spoiler:

I think you are right but I'd like to bring out the fact that Orochimaru was fooled by Sai's ink Kawarimi around the time he fought 3 (or was it 4?)-tailed Naruto.

I'd like to think Kawarimi is foolproof. If i did a replacement with a block of wood, striking the wood first avails to nothing (it is not my real body) but if you strike at me, you end up striking the block of wood.

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by poolfan

Spoiler:

I think you are right but I'd like to bring out the fact that Orochimaru was fooled by Sai's ink Kawarimi around the time he fought 3 (or was it 4?)-tailed Naruto.

I'd like to think Kawarimi is foolproof. If i did a replacement with a block of wood, striking the wood first avails to nothing (it is not my real body) but if you strike at me, you end up striking the block of wood.

Spoiler:

That was a ink bunshin not a kawarmi and Oro wasn't fooled by it. He destroyed it so the real Sai would come out and face him.