Some Concrete Numbers on Licensing Costs, Among Other Things in Forbes Article

[Melazoma]

Forbes wrote an article about ADV and some numbers came up:

Originally Posted by Forbes

The vagaries of Japanese copyright laws require that licensing deals be done on a picture-by-picture basis. For exclusive distribution rights to the world outside Japan, ADV pays $1 million to $2.6 million for an anime series and $500,000 to $5 million for a feature film. Remastering the sound costs another $10,000 to $20,000 per half-hour.

The rest are the success story of Mark Ledford, head-honcho of ADV. The article makes for an interesting read.

[SirCanealot]

That means ADV would have to sell 33000 DVDs to reach one million and pay for just the licencing cost, assuming they make $30 from each disk, which they DO NOT.
Not to mention stuff like dubs and authoring etc.
Heh, things are a little more costly than I'd thought.

[Killerattacks]

But you have to consider, that they have world wide rights (except Japan) and AFAIK ADV doesn't release outside the USA. They resell nationwide licenses to other foreign comapanies.
For example "Univesum Film" buyed recently over 20 licenses for Germany from ADV.
Thus they make money by selling DVDs in the USA and by reselling the licenses they purchased.

[anthonyxscotland]

Originally Posted by Killerattacks

But you have to consider, that they have world wide rights (except Japan) and AFAIK ADV doesn't release outside the USA. They resell nationwide licenses to other foreign comapanies.
For example "Univesum Film" buyed recently over 20 licenses for Germany from ADV.
Thus they make money by selling DVDs in the USA and by reselling the licenses they purchased.

Well, at last check ADV-UK was running as a profit making business, which means that will help pay for the licencing costs. And as you said, sub-licencing has always worked out well for ADV (look at Madman, they sub-licence most of ADV's titles)

[ChoBaka]

Originally Posted by Killerattacks

But you have to consider, that they have world wide rights (except Japan) and AFAIK ADV doesn't release outside the USA. They resell nationwide licenses to other foreign comapanies.
For example "Univesum Film" buyed recently over 20 licenses for Germany from ADV.
Thus they make money by selling DVDs in the USA and by reselling the licenses they purchased.

ADV buys worldwide licenses? That means that companies in other countries (even non English speaking ones) have to sublicense from ADV? (like Chinese, Korean, Malaysian, German, French, Russian, etc licensing companies)

[Melazoma]

Originally Posted by ChoBaka

ADV buys worldwide licenses? That means that companies in other countries (even non English speaking ones) have to sublicense from ADV? (like Chinese, Korean, Malaysian, German, French, Russian, etc licensing companies)

It seems to be on a case-by-case basis, but worldwide except Japan distribution licenses are definitely picked up quite often--and not just by ADV, I should think.

[Suikun]

If I'm not mistaken, 4Kids usually buys worldwide distribution rights as well... which is why many countries have the same screwed-up versions of shows like Sonic X as we do. (Apparently, Japanese music isn't suitable for the US, but their US music is suitable for all countries. Hypocrites.)

[lamer_de]

If I'm not mistaken, 4Kids usually buys worldwide distribution rights as well...

One Piece aired up to 100 something here in Germany (dubbed, of course) for probably a year (I don't know for how long, I don't follow it), so I doubt that's true for OP. Same for Detective Conan (or Case Closed if you like).

CU,
lamer_de

[Suikun]

Originally Posted by lamer_de

One Piece aired up to 100 something here in Germany (dubbed, of course) for probably a year (I don't know for how long, I don't follow it), so I doubt that's true for OP. Same for Detective Conan (or Case Closed if you like).

CU,
lamer_de

Detective Conan is by FUNimation, not 4Kids... but yeah, I know One Piece is a big exception as many other countries have had One Piece for quite some time. But I think 4Kids' version of Pokemon, Sonic X, Kirby, and (possibly) Ultimate Muscle span multiple countries (obviously dubbed in the proper language, but with the same lame edits and BG music as the 4Kids' version). I don't know for sure myself, just what I've heard from others.

[Yebyosh]

Originally Posted by ChoBaka

ADV buys worldwide licenses? That means that companies in other countries (even non English speaking ones) have to sublicense from ADV? (like Chinese, Korean, Malaysian, German, French, Russian, etc licensing companies)

I think their worldwide license is for the English language only. Those wishing to license for their native language would have to go through the Japanese company themselves, so the Chinese companies (e.g. Taiwan's Power International and Proware Media) should be approaching the Japanese company directly to license them for the Chinese speakers.

Maybe AvatarADV can clarify this?

[Za Paper]

A really interesting article. ADV's rental deal with Blockbuster sounds like a huge moneymaker so they dont have to actually sell that many copies to recoup thier costs. Their new project "Mutineer's Moon" sounds really interesting as well.

[LynnieS]

Originally Posted by Za Paper

A really interesting article. ADV's rental deal with Blockbuster sounds like a huge moneymaker so they dont have to actually sell that many copies to recoup thier costs. Their new project "Mutineer's Moon" sounds really interesting as well.

I would assume that they simply traded one counterparty with respect to licensing to another - i.e., a Japanese animation studio versus Baen/David Weber - for "Multineer's Moon". I was surprised by the announcement to be honest; would've thought that they would go after the Honor Harrington series instead for more material to mine. Costs might be a bit much for that, though...

[AvatarADV]

Originally Posted by LynnieS

I would assume that they simply traded one counterparty with respect to licensing to another - i.e., a Japanese animation studio versus Baen/David Weber - for "Multineer's Moon". I was surprised by the announcement to be honest; would've thought that they would go after the Honor Harrington series instead for more material to mine. Costs might be a bit much for that, though...

Heh, I got sucked into the Harrington series myself. Good stuff.

As for the rest of it, the particulars for licensing are pretty particular, but there are "all English-language territories" licenses and then there are also "all territories outside Japan period" licenses, with plenty in between and other types too.

[LynnieS]

Originally Posted by AvatarADV

Heh, I got sucked into the Harrington series myself. Good stuff.

Not really. Quality of the books fluctuates, but I think it's been slipping recently, IMHO; it's just fluff reading, though, and with Baen making the books available electronically at a pretty cheap price, I can always find something to read. Can always go reread the earlier books also.

Hope the designs have changed, though. I saw the early version of the MM battleships awhile back, and the first thing out of my mouth was "Huh?" followed by "Ugh!". Colors were dark and sullen (black and red), and the ships looked like they came out of a wet navy than a space one.

Back onto topic...

For those who don't visit the anime sites like ANN or AoD, Forbes has put the article on-line.

[jethrek]

Originally Posted by Suikun

Detective Conan is by FUNimation, not 4Kids... but yeah, I know One Piece is a big exception as many other countries have had One Piece for quite some time. But I think 4Kids' version of Pokemon, Sonic X, Kirby, and (possibly) Ultimate Muscle span multiple countries (obviously dubbed in the proper language, but with the same lame edits and BG music as the 4Kids' version). I don't know for sure myself, just what I've heard from others.

The thing is a lot of anime air in other countries long before they hit the US. One Piece and Dragon Ball come to mind.

This article sounds misleading in a number of ways, as stated before by someone I think this is English language rights.

Also, I guarantee you the US-Canada English rights are significantly cheaper, considering how many placeholder liscenses ADV owns.

[slapstick]

Originally Posted by SirCanealot

That means ADV would have to sell 33000 DVDs to reach one million and pay for just the licencing cost, assuming they make $30 from each disk, which they DO NOT.
Not to mention stuff like dubs and authoring etc.
Heh, things are a little more costly than I'd thought.

Actually, that number is somewhat convoluded. Divide it by 7. Why? The typical show is 26 eps and on 7 dvds. So while they do need to sell that many DVDs, it's much easier to comprehend if you look at how many people they must sell complete sets to.

And the number is... 11,111 people. That's not a ton, but at this stage in the life of anime it's still a lot.

[jennwenn]

Originally Posted by jethrek

The thing is a lot of anime air in other countries long before they hit the US. One Piece and Dragon Ball come to mind.

This article sounds misleading in a number of ways, as stated before by someone I think this is English language rights.

Also, I guarantee you the US-Canada English rights are significantly cheaper, considering how many placeholder liscenses ADV owns.

Asia outside Japan does have lots more anime than the English speaking world.

I remember reading somewhere that ADV make around $1 of profit per DVD? I have to find that article...Sounds like a very difficult return to me. (

[mantidor]

Premise: that the moon is really a disguised spaceship from a distant star that, after a botched mutiny, has sat dormant for 50,000 years, its crew having abandoned ship for Earth. When a wayward astronaut gets sucked inside the ship and discovers the truth, the battle begins for its control.

At least it's not another reality show.

LOL that craked me up

Im glad that here realities have somehow died, the first adaptation of survivor in my country was a success, but the sequels werent as succesful, and other adaptations (like our version of"the bachelor") died a miserable death that Im really happy to see, bye realities from Colombia, I hope youll never return ^_^

Here we have tons of anime compared to the english speaking countries in case you wanted to know.

[Mr_Paper]

Originally Posted by SirCanealot

That means ADV would have to sell 33000 DVDs to reach one million and pay for just the licencing cost, assuming they make $30 from each disk, which they DO NOT.
Not to mention stuff like dubs and authoring etc.
Heh, things are a little more costly than I'd thought.

Of course. Since stores like DeepDiscountDVD can sell them for as little as $17 without going out of business, I'd assume ADV makes closer to $15 per disc (I'd even say lower, but the number of units needing to be sold at $12 per disc is frightning). Let's take a look at the costs with the averages. Assuming an average of $1.75 million for the licensing cost of a 26 episode series, $15,000 for dubbing and postproduction for each episode...

Production costs: ~$2,150,000...
Number of units to be sold at $15 to cover costs alone: ~144,000 units...
Complete series to be sold a 7 discs per series: ~20,570 complete series.

[eXistenZ]

i dont know about those numbers.

OP has like 200 episodes and if each episode cost 150k plus for distrobution and dubbing, then to licence the entire series would cost over 30 million dollars. and thats just for the 200 episodes already produced.

i think 100k to 150k is for high interest item like OP naruto and NGE.

i have a feeling most average anime is probably 50k to 100k.

also i read from ask john over at animenation that licensing costs are kept strictly secret so as not tip off the competition. imo those numbers were just thrown out there. i would be more apt to believe those numbers if i saw proof.

edit to mr paper.

i dont think they would make 15 dollars a disc. i think 1 - 2 dollars is most likely. the rest of the markup is distro and sales markup. deepdiscount prolly makes 50 cents to a dollar a dvd. dvd would be about 1 dollar to make.