(L) Dungeon ni Deai o Motomeru no wa Machigatte Iru Darou ka (LN)

[Marcus H.]

Guys, I have to ask this, seeing that the Sword Oratoria anime has been panned over and over by the fans of the LN and manga...

Do you really think that a twelve-episode adaptation of Sword Oratoria can cover EVERYTHING that's covered by the LN or the manga?

[RDNexus]

I can't find a better way to ask you this without sounding rude... Excuse me in advance.

Are you feeling salty about the way most people have been talking about SO Anime?

[Somethindarker]

Originally Posted by Marcus H.

Guys, I have to ask this, seeing that the Sword Oratoria anime has been panned over and over by the fans of the LN and manga...

Do you really think that a twelve-episode adaptation of Sword Oratoria can cover EVERYTHING that's covered by the LN or the manga?

Because anime, in general, is not a good medium to adapt most LN's. Most anime fans, at least the ones they're targeting, only want 1. Cute girls, 2. Fanservice, 3. Pandering, 4.Fantasy. So of course the good parts, and I might not like SO but it has some great elements, get left out. In Japan, more so than in the west, LN novels readers rarely watch anime and vice versa the targeted audience for anime couldn't really give a shit about the more serious and fantasy aspects that we in the west tend to gravitate to. Personally I'm not surprised most anime do a piss poor job in adapting the source material I've been let down again and again Isuca, High School DxD, Haganai, Raildex, Absolute Zero, Tsugumomo, etc; I rarely watch anime anymore it's been like 3-4 season since I pick up more than 2 maybe 3 shows and haven't finished more than 1 show in the last 2 season, shit next season I'm not picking up anything I'm only gonna finish BnH.

[XFire]

Originally Posted by Marcus H.

Guys, I have to ask this, seeing that the Sword Oratoria anime has been panned over and over by the fans of the LN and manga...

Do you really think that a twelve-episode adaptation of Sword Oratoria can cover EVERYTHING that's covered by the LN or the manga?

No, but it could have done far better. The early parts of SO are widely considered to be better than the early parts of Danmachi proper. The main reasons are the look into Aiz's perspective, the massive scale of the fights, and the darker nature of the plot.

None of those made it in. Aiz's screen time was cut in place of Lefiya, a character who only became important around volume three (and even then she was secondary to Bell in terms of plot relevance).

The fights were vastly inferior to both other versions, with neither the massive drama boost of the manga (where Aiz is reduced to a bloody wreck fighting Udeaus) or the far more technical nature of the original (literally everything Aiz did had a reason, and the fight lasted nearly half a day).

And the darker parts of the plot were glossed over for more light hearted fanfare surrounding the elf even Japan hates (or so I heard).


Danmachi received near universal praise despite massive plot compression and skipping some character development, because it managed to adapt the plot to a different medium. SO has little to no real resemblance to it's source material, which is amplified by the fact that, as I stated, SO's source material (or at least the part they cover) is generally considered better than equivalent Danmachi content.

People aren't mad because they had unreasonable expectations. People are mad because the manga proves a good visual adaption can be made, and the studio has proven their chops with Danmachi. There was no reason for it to fail like this.

[Marcus H.]

People aren't mad because they had unreasonable expectations. People are mad because the manga proves a good visual adaption can be made, and the studio has proven their chops with Danmachi. There was no reason for it to fail like this.

What you said is contradictory. You admitted that Sword Oratoria cannot cover everything, and yet you implied that the anime has to cover the same ground the manga could despite the fact that it's impossible. "There was no reason for it to fail like this."? I disagree. The anime is doomed to fail, based on what it had to cover and what the fans wanted. There's just this disconnect that puts the production team on a precarious balance.

[Somethindarker]

Originally Posted by Marcus H.

What you said is contradictory. You admitted that Sword Oratoria cannot cover everything, and yet you implied that the anime has to cover the same ground the manga could despite the fact that it's impossible. "There was no reason for it to fail like this."? I disagree. The anime is doomed to fail, based on what it had to cover and what the fans wanted. There's just this disconnect that puts the production team on a precarious balance.

They're not trying to appeal to the LN fans since the people that buy the source material, ie; middle school, high school or casual readers aren't really anime viewers. The people they cater to are the dudes that are hardcore anime viewers(otaku) they're trying to get them to buy the LN's to boost sales that's why they hire VA's who are also singers(to get their fans), and they purposely make cute art(to get them to buy statues, pillows etc and they cut out the meat of the story and focus on the slice of life since otaku tend to gravitate to cutesy shit and power fantasy. There was a Gintama episode(a few actually) where they talk about that stuff. We're disappointed sure because we like the stories plot and the show is getting panned(called it months ago) because what we like of the story is cut out in favor of the cookie cutter(safe) production, it's like a formula the studios use for shit like this. It's kind of like american comics you buy a few stories every month and the ones that you like you keep buying the ones that don't interest you get dropped for a while until something cool happens, it's the same thing with the movies, Marvel or DC make movies for casuals(their target audience) and the fans of the source materials tend to gripe about how the movies left certain things out but the studios don't care because the publishers get a bunch of new fans to buy their comics.

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by Marcus H.

What you said is contradictory. You admitted that Sword Oratoria cannot cover everything, and yet you implied that the anime has to cover the same ground the manga could despite the fact that it's impossible. "There was no reason for it to fail like this."? I disagree. The anime is doomed to fail, based on what it had to cover and what the fans wanted. There's just this disconnect that puts the production team on a precarious balance.

The anime did not have to cover everything, the problem is that they wasted time covering unnecessary stuff (how many imagine spots of Lefiya mooning over Ais do we really need?), and stuff that they should have done properly, like the fight scenes were badly handled.

[Marcus H.]

Wait, how will the production team know which parts of the story are unnecessary?

[KnightShade]

Eh SO ln is overhyped any ways, even if adapted to the same level of danmachi proper it wouldnt have blown up as contrary to what people like to believe on forums, bells journey is the main appeal of the series.

[XFire]

Originally Posted by Marcus H.

What you said is contradictory. You admitted that Sword Oratoria cannot cover everything, and yet you implied that the anime has to cover the same ground the manga could despite the fact that it's impossible. "There was no reason for it to fail like this."? I disagree. The anime is doomed to fail, based on what it had to cover and what the fans wanted. There's just this disconnect that puts the production team on a precarious balance.

No I didn't. That's the opposite of what I said.

I said no one expected it to cover everything. The manga, which is an expansion of the LN, still doesn't cover everything.

I said that as an adaption it doesn't have to cover everything, and that Danmachi, by the same damn studio, proved that even with massive compression and losing some plot, it can still be good.


Danmachi was good. It gathered near constant praise throughout its run and people were clamoring for season 2 before it finished.

SO should have been just as good. It was based off the same author, the same setting, the same damn characters. It was done by the same studio with the same animation style.

And yet despite the fans liking SO more than Danmachi in the early volumes, the SO adaption failed to even break par with Danmachi proper.

That's failure. Plain and simple. They had everything they needed for a good series and had already proved they could make a good series with that material. And then they didn't.

[ShadowSamurai365]

I haven't watched the anime (only read the manga), but I've heard about the part where Bete said his speech towards the wounded adventurers at a bar (the one when he, Felvis, and Lefiya teamed up to head towards the dungeon to find Ais) wasn't shown in the anime. Is this true?

[shadow1296]

Plain and simple, the reason that this adaptation failed is because they put time into frankly an annoying character and tried to make her the main character over the actual main character of the story because frankly Cutesy+Yuri=$$$$, and it didn't work most of the Lefiya stuff they added/focused on could have been removed and you lose very little to the overall story, at the end of the day Sword Oratorio is a story about Ais and this adaptation gave us little more than the original Danmachi did in terms of her character, it gave us some but not enough to actually make her true character shine through

[Twi]

Originally Posted by ShadowSamurai365

I haven't watched the anime (only read the manga), but I've heard about the part where Bete said his speech towards the wounded adventurers at a bar (the one when he, Felvis, and Lefiya teamed up to head towards the dungeon to find Ais) wasn't shown in the anime. Is this true?

They cut it.

[xellos2099]

I mean the anime is not "bad". There is just inreation hate toward Lefiya. Even in the manga there was a lot of Lefiya focused portion.

[xellos2099]

Originally Posted by shadow1296

Plain and simple, the reason that this adaptation failed is because they put time into frankly an annoying character and tried to make her the main character over the actual main character of the story because frankly Cutesy+Yuri=$$$$, and it didn't work most of the Lefiya stuff they added/focused on could have been removed and you lose very little to the overall story, at the end of the day Sword Oratorio is a story about Ais and this adaptation gave us little more than the original Danmachi did in terms of her character, it gave us some but not enough to actually make her true character shine through

I have to disagree. Sword Oratorio is a story of Loki Familia, not Aiz alone. Specially in the later vol there are focus on other members as well.

[XFire]

Well, I don't know how many others have read volume right yet, but damn that was refreshing.

Best moments were...

Spoiler for lol:

• Finn trolling Bell only to get instant karma via Tiona
• Welf managing to win over Hephaistos with the lamest line ever
• Takemikazuchi being a harem protagonist
• Finally getting an Eina chapter
• The fact that despite spending an entire book doing harem shenanigans Bell still only has eyes for Aiz (just gloating, sail that ship home kids)

[Wandering Soul]

I really liked

Spoiler for volume 8:

Lili revealing that she was older than Bell and catching completely off guard.l

[archoel]

Volume 13 is scheduled for October 15.

[Hata]

Originally Posted by archoel

Volume 13 is scheduled for October 15.

delayed one month, 2017/11/15.

https://www.amazon.co.jp/dp/4797393572

[Schpittfeuer]

Originally Posted by Marcus H.

Guys, I have to ask this, seeing that the Sword Oratoria anime has been panned over and over by the fans of the LN and manga...

Do you really think that a twelve-episode adaptation of Sword Oratoria can cover EVERYTHING that's covered by the LN or the manga?

No. And that's why 12 ep shitty quick jump on money and hype manga it's bad idea in first place.

Especially when it comes to universe that detailed and big as DanMachi