Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha Character Creation and Discussion (second reincarnation)

[Tempy]

Originally Posted by Keroko

... What's a Faraday Cage?

A Faraday cage or Faraday shield is an enclosure formed by conducting material, or by a mesh of such material. Such an enclosure blocks out external static electrical fields. Examples include microwave cookers and MRI scanners.

[MeisterBabylon]

Originally Posted by Keroko

Not really. Sousuke never realizes that what he's doing is extremely embarrassing. Keroko is very much aware that what she's doing is embarrassing, she just doesn't really care. Touma walking in on her changing? Well, it's not like he's pushing her down and tearing her clothes of. Ignore him, he'll go away after stammering excuses. Someone flipping her skirt? Oh lovely, get a good view? Yes, they're black. Good. Remember it. It'll be the last thing you'll have seen for a long time. She won't actively go out of her way to embarrass people, but she can make other people feel embarrassed with her attitude. Simple things like casually hugging someone, which to her is a simple and innocent gesture, can be throughly embarrassing for another.

She doesn't mind being seen in underwear. She doesn't mind close contact with people. She doesn't mind people knowing she has a few un-ladylike hobbies (like gaming).

However, if you make it a point of doing things like peeking on her while changing, or abuse her non-caring attitude towards physical contact to 'cope a feel' so to say, then she won't hesitate to retaliate with a vengeance. She's taking revenge more out of annoyance then embarrassment.

Erm okay... Points noted and taken. Can we move out of this subtopic for now? I do some do service in my fics but it's kinda freaking me out trying to keep a straight face on the topic...

Originally Posted by Keroko

Try and keep that train of thought when he innocently pats Fate's shoulder. >:3

He has to stab Fate with Rule Breaker. Not an innocent touch. <_< In a way its an advantage over the original, since its not always on.

Originally Posted by Keroko

Kaka? ... Nevermind, what you're saying is that Kha's Rule Breaker is a weaker version of Imagine Breaker, right?

Kaka is Kha's imouto and like him also inherited the Rare Skill from their mother. I know she has a weird name; Tou and Kia weren't very good with names and simply multiplied Kha by 2! However she has to potential to be a much stronger mage than he is, and with her 95% cybernetic body can take a lot more strain as well. As such, she, as the 13th Number, was Jail's backup for Inherent Skills, all 1,003,000 of them. However she was activated much earlier than Sein because Kha, on an anonymous tipoff, recovered her while she was being moved from a compromised lab. Her IB isn't always on since she has to transform her Widget into a knuckle to use it effectively. Aurion then pointed out that she and him shared similar genes, not to mention her eyes and silver-white hair matches his default colors as well (Kha's eyes are yellow from an always-on RS, if not it's ash-grey, and his silver brush is his real hair color). That was 8 year ago stuff anyway...

...main problem is that I forgot that she was meant to be a surprise character though, hence why no profile. Egads. D=

And yes, Rule Breaker takes a bit longer to dispell due to the need to analyse the attack on strike. Imagine Breaker just whacks things out on touch.

Originally Posted by Keroko

I actually meant 'bolts flying from all sides'

Bolts from all sides means Kha needs Tausend Kreuz in his main hand for power sword *ahemlightsabercough* to even stand a chance. Or weather the whole salvo with resilience. He has the Stamina for that.

Originally Posted by Keroko

... What's a Faraday Cage?

Originally Posted by Tempest Dynasty

A Faraday cage or Faraday shield is an enclosure formed by conducting material, or by a mesh of such material. Such an enclosure blocks out external static electrical fields. Examples include microwave cookers and MRI scanners.

Also when grounded it allows current to flow around the person rather then through him, saving him from damage. Any kind of shielding against a tempest will be helpful in one way or another.

Originally Posted by Keroko

Actually, since berserking Keroko is mostly just using magically enhanced strength and random spells, but little to no tactical thinking, I'd say she'd be easier to defeat then a calm Keroko using her Blast Lancer to full advantage.

...without his Drive it wouldn't be close if she keeps blowing up cover. He's gonna need a card trinket traq rifle or plot writing...

Originally Posted by Keroko

s'all part of plotwriting. By all accounts Fate should have been downed fairly quickly in A's first battle, but plot demanded she hung in there. Same for Touma. Accelerator could have won that fight in the first blow, if he had kicked that rock just a centimeter or 30 more to the right, Touma's head would have gone *splat* It may make battles less... realistic in terms of tactical fighting, but it sure as hell also makes them more entertaining.

Not everything goes according to plan that means. There's some leeway for that, just how cautious said chara is then.

[AdmiralTigerclaw]

Originally Posted by Tempest Dynasty

A Faraday cage or Faraday shield is an enclosure formed by conducting material, or by a mesh of such material. Such an enclosure blocks out external static electrical fields. Examples include microwave cookers and MRI scanners.

Or, if you want to be simple.

It's just a cage. Made of metal.

[Keroko]

So basically... anything that allows you to ride out a thunderstorm (like, say, a car) is a Faraday Cage?

Originally Posted by Kagerou

...Stop being so damn cute D:

Oh, this is far to amusing to stop.

Originally Posted by Evangelion Xgouki

>_>

<_<

*makes another order of roses, rose petals, and wireless, hovering sparkly lights*

I'll have some of those please. :3

Originally Posted by MeisterBabylon

Erm okay... Points noted and taken. Can we move out of this subtopic for now? I do some do service in my fics but it's kinda freaking me out trying to keep a straight face on the topic...

The entire idea is meant to be unable to keep a straight face.

Originally Posted by MeisterBabylon

He has to stab Fate with Rule Breaker. Not an innocent touch. <_< In a way its an advantage over the original, since its not always on.

I was talking about Touma. Imagine Touma patting Fate's shoulder, unaware just what her Barrier Jacket is made off.

Originally Posted by MeisterBabylon

Kaka is Kha's imouto and like him also inherited the Rare Skill from their mother. I know she has a weird name; Tou and Kia weren't very good with names and simply multiplied Kha by 2! However she has to potential to be a much stronger mage than he is, and with her 95% cybernetic body can take a lot more strain as well. As such, she, as the 13th Number, was Jail's backup for Inherent Skills, all 1,003,000 of them. However she was activated much earlier than Sein because Kha, on an anonymous tipoff, recovered her while she was being moved from a compromised lab. Her IB isn't always on since she has to transform her Widget into a knuckle to use it effectively. Aurion then pointed out that she and him shared similar genes, not to mention her eyes and silver-white hair matches his default colors as well (Kha's eyes are yellow from an always-on RS, if not it's ash-grey, and his silver brush is his real hair color). That was 8 year ago stuff anyway...

... I do have a question on what Jail needed 1.003.000 Inherent Skills for...

Originally Posted by MeisterBabylon

...main problem is that I forgot that she was meant to be a surprise character though, hence why no profile. Egads. D=

Betrayed in the excitement.

[stormturmoil]

Originally Posted by Keroko

So basically... anything that allows you to ride out a thunderstorm (like, say, a car) is a Faraday Cage?

correct, with an important proviso:

It not only grounds all external electromagnetic effects out, it also grounds all internal electromagnetic effects out as well.


A microwave oven uses a Faraday cage to keep it's microwaves from leaking, for example. some electronic systems, like radios, TVs and computers use Faraday cages to suppress electromagnetic leakage.

As a result, in the example provided, it could also be used to contain any Electric or magnetism user because it earths out their powers, forming both a physical and powers-based prison...

I daresay you can see the potentials in that...



On the subject of the Imagination Breaker...I never thought I'd stoop to using this kind of terminology here...but as it stands, it's a no-limits fallacy that needs better explanation and quantification...

because as it stands, it seems to destroy any and all magical constructs.

FYI, several characters are Magical constructs, and one-Hit-killing them would not go down well, even if it were by accident.

Think of the WolkenRitter, Arf, The Lieze twins, or worse, Rein Zwei...

what's more, Linker Cores are, by their definition, potentially classifiable as a form of Magical Construct, in which case Mage Vs Imagination Breaker= one-hit-Ex-Mage.

In which case, Touma patting Fate on the shoulder is going to have a lot more consequences than merely exploding her barrier Jacket...

[MeisterBabylon]

Originally Posted by Keroko

I was talking about Touma. Imagine Touma patting Fate's shoulder, unaware just what her Barrier Jacket is made off.

Ah warui, though unless there was combat I'd expect him to be meeting Fate in uniform first. But yeah, plot element for service is present.

Originally Posted by Keroko

... I do have a question on what Jail needed 1.003.000 Inherent Skills for...

There has been many guesses. Bragging rights? His own private army after conquering Midchilda to conquer the Multiverse? A walking index that takes up less space than a library and an armory, as Kaka's Tracing ability allows her to reTrace any Inherent Equipment to support the index? Some say the infomation saved inside Kaka was a key ingredient in the Number construction process, but there's loopholes in that argument Some romanticists even think that all he's done was to protect Ordered Space from an even greater evil that only he knows of, and that necessated having all Inherent Skills ever discovered and catalogued at his disposal. Again there's problems with that theory. In the end, the answer lies with Jail. He was stopped before he could finish his plan, and with "the right to remain silent as what you say and do can and will be used against you in a law of court" meant he wasn't going to say more than he has to. Its not on the top of the agenda anyway, since Kaka was in no way any danger. Jail cares for his creations too much to include a failsafe like Index, otherwise he would have done so for everyone.

Originally Posted by Keroko

Betrayed in the excitement.

*is socked on the head by angry imouto*

Originally Posted by stormturmoil

On the subject of the Imagination Breaker...I never thought I'd stoop to using this kind of terminology here...but as it stands, it's a no-limits fallacy that needs better explanation and quantification...

because as it stands, it seems to destroy any and all magical constructs.

FYI, several characters are Magical constructs, and one-Hit-killing them would not go down well, even if it were by accident.

Think of the WolkenRitter, Arf, The Lieze twins, or worse, Rein Zwei...

what's more, Linker Cores are, by their definition, potentially classifiable as a form of Magical Construct, in which case Mage Vs Imagination Breaker= one-hit-Ex-Mage.

In which case, Touma patting Fate on the shoulder is going to have a lot more consequences than merely exploding her barrier Jacket...

It just works as it should, like everything else in Toumaverse and Nanoverse.

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by stormturmoil

correct, with an important proviso:

It not only grounds all external electromagnetic effects out, it also grounds all internal electromagnetic effects out as well.


A microwave oven uses a Faraday cage to keep it's microwaves from leaking, for example. some electronic systems, like radios, TVs and computers use Faraday cages to suppress electromagnetic leakage.

As a result, in the example provided, it could also be used to contain any Electric or magnetism user because it earths out their powers, forming both a physical and powers-based prison...

I daresay you can see the potentials in that...

I can indeed.

Originally Posted by stormturmoil

On the subject of the Imagination Breaker...I never thought I'd stoop to using this kind of terminology here...but as it stands, it's a no-limits fallacy that needs better explanation and quantification...

because as it stands, it seems to destroy any and all magical constructs.

FYI, several characters are Magical constructs, and one-Hit-killing them would not go down well, even if it were by accident.

Think of the WolkenRitter, Arf, The Lieze twins, or worse, Rein Zwei...

Yes, that thought had occurred to me as well.

Originally Posted by stormturmoil

what's more, Linker Cores are, by their definition, potentially classifiable as a form of Magical Construct, in which case Mage Vs Imagination Breaker= one-hit-Ex-Mage.

In which case, Touma patting Fate on the shoulder is going to have a lot more consequences than merely exploding her barrier Jacket...

This though, I can safely say won't happen. There are many examples of Touma touching both Mages and Psychics alike, and while Mages in To Aruverse may be excused (the very base of the creation of magic is that the creators were normal people who desired power) Psychics are those born with an ability. By default, that means their power is biological, and thus Touma touching them should mean their powers -or worse, their lives- disappear the second he does so.

Suffice to say, this never happened. So it is logical that a mere touch from Touma would not instantly kill or disable a Nanohaverse mage.

A theory to explain this would be that while Linker Cores are responsible for a Mages power, they are still a biological construct. One is born with them or not, they are not created from magic, and thus Imagine Breaker has no effect on them.

Originally Posted by MeisterBabylon

There has been many guesses. Bragging rights? His own private army after conquering Midchilda to conquer the Multiverse? A walking index that takes up less space than a library and an armory, as Kaka's Tracing ability allows her to reTrace any Inherent Equipment to support the index? Some say the infomation saved inside Kaka was a key ingredient in the Number construction process, but there's loopholes in that argument Some romanticists even think that all he's done was to protect Ordered Space from an even greater evil that only he knows of, and that necessated having all Inherent Skills ever discovered and catalogued at his disposal. Again there's problems with that theory. In the end, the answer lies with Jail. He was stopped before he could finish his plan, and with "the right to remain silent as what you say and do can and will be used against you in a law of court" meant he wasn't going to say more than he has to. Its not on the top of the agenda anyway, since Kaka was in no way any danger. Jail cares for his creations too much to include a failsafe like Index, otherwise he would have done so for everyone.

Duly noted. And the real reason?

[MeisterBabylon]

Plot element not to be revealed until during the BetrayerS miniseries (includes SSX arc).

[Kyral]

Originally Posted by Keroko

A theory to explain this would be that while Linker Cores are responsible for a Mages power, they are still a biological construct. One is born with them or not, they are not created from magic, and thus Imagine Breaker has no effect on them.

The Linker Cores can be 100% magical and would not be dispelled.

It's like the rune in Index mouth, it needs to be touched directly. Imagine Breaker never seems to go through skin as Touma would have deleted the rune as soon he touched Index's face (along with every other magical 'surprises' inside of her, but we know that didn't happen.).

And while there are means to extract or expose a Linker Core, these means are of magical nature as well, so someone with Imagine Breaker would never be able to do so alone.

[AdmiralTigerclaw]

I would also imagine that once they are 'made', a Unison Device and the Wolkies are pretty much biological entities. They consume food. Food is regular matter. Food provides nutrients and building blocks for an organic body. So if you remember the litteral meaning of 'you are what you eat' , it's initially built by magic, but once it's made, it's SOLID until it's destroyed by force, or 'deconstructed'. (Thus why Nanoha doesn't transform back when she gets KOed, or why the barrier jackets don't just dissappear on the Cradle in the AMF.)

In other words... they are magical entities, but they aren't made of Psudomatter. I would imagine that after the Events in As, when the Wolkies were released from the book permenantly, they ceased to be magically supported constructs held together only by linker core.

In order to keep things stable though, to have a barrier jacket explode from just a pat, would probably be along the lines of some kind of feedback surge from the barrier and field effects suddenly failing spectacularly.

Probably visually be like a flash and the clothing shreds.

[Keroko]

Actually, To Aru was already kind enough to provide us with a crystal clear example of what would happen.

Imagine Breaker doesn't destroy magic through a 'feedback surge' or anything, it simply cancels anything created through supernatural -be it magic or psychic- means.

Hence, the problem of the Wolkenritter. Regardless of what they are now, they were created through magical means. I'm all for considering them human, but there are quite a few disagreements on the subject. Vita's wound being one of the primary examples.

[stormturmoil]

What's more, we know from Arf's example that Familiars are not only magically created, but also magically supported by the creator too...

the root of the whole Loli-Arf business.

that means that any Familiar touched by this would be immediately un-familiar-ised, whether because of the magical creation or the magical support; either way, any Familiar touched is done in.

and since Familars have rights, presumably including the right not to be casually lobotomised or even murdered (death of personality equals murder?), the first instance of a Familiar being touched would be the last: he'd be jailed, probably for life...

assuming that the whole "do not hurt someone with armed relatives" thing didn't get him killed first.

[Keroko]

Which would make rule number one in any To Aru crossover fic to either work away the Familiars/Wolkies (shaft with a reason!), or make sure everyone knows about Touma's Imagine Breaker so all parties at risk can stay away from him.

Best way to write this would be to use the SSX crew or beyond, methinks. That, or find another plot device that excludes the Wolkies (on a mission, busy with administrative work, whatever).

[stormturmoil]

Nope, I reckon the best, most believable approach is going to be something akin to B5's Psi-Corp:

He's constantly monitored, has to wear a tracking bug at all times, and always, and I mean ALWAYS has to wear bloody thick insulating gloves except when explicitly given permission not to.

Mid (and by extension other other Bureau Territories) has too many instances of magical constructs and Familiars to really let them settle for anything less.

especially if Magitech devices are vulnerable (why are we stranded? He touched the Trans-Dimensional drive and it stopped working...)

Otherwise, the Bureau is seen to be giving free rein to a person who can literally mindwipe a portion of the Mid population with a touch...

he's just too dangerous to not take precautions with, because it doesn't have to be a conscious effort...

example, a Familiar falls out of an upper story window...

he goes to catch them without thinking...

what happens next?

[Keroko]

My version of a crossover would be more the Nanoha cast going to Academy City rather then the other way around. Throwing Touma and co to Mid creates way to many plotholes for me to be bothered with filling, like the aforementioned Familiar problem, and the fact that a great deal of Mid's materials run on, or are made of magic. Then there are the plotholes on To Aru's side that needs to explain why on earth Touma would leave in the first place, and why character X Y and Z followed him.

Meanwhile, it's very easy to find a good deal of reasons virtually devoid of plotholes to send the Nahoha cast to Academy City. Index, Academy City and its advanced Psychic programs, the Angel Fall incident and so on and so on.

[stormturmoil]

The trouble with that is that if you send the Nanoha Cast to Academy city, then Academy City IS going to then develop Transdimensional travel

the moment they know it's possible, some person or group or other is going to try it...

and when they succeed?

the Bureau categorically does not like Outies...

I can't see Academy city kowtowing to Bureau rule though...

hence, it's War!

[Keroko]

'covert operation' is the answer to that question. If the city doesn't know they're extra-dimensional, they won't start researching the idea.

That, or turn it into a plot device of its own.

Or simply ignore it. It's not like they're going to develop dimensional travel out of the blue, it'll take them years before they get that far. More then enough for the plot of the fic to run its course.

[stormturmoil]

I point it out because the locals will know damn well that they are mages (unless you choose to send non-mage characters)

they'll also know that they aren't any Mage type that they're used to- they use and manifest magic differently.

so they'll get watched, if not studied furiously, by anyone who's around them or sees them doing anything involving magic...

and that magic happens to include Dimensional transfers as an apparently elementary ability. Possibly even a fundamental truth of Nanoha-verse magic.

this is even more likely if the whole device summoning thing does use subspace pockets as opposed to Pseudomatter formation.

[Keroko]

While I agree that they will quickly be found out as mages (big magic circles are a dead giveaway), I disagree that this will lead to them discovering dimensional magic.

A comparison, if you see someone using a weapon you've never seen before, will you automatically conclude that he must have gotten it from another planet? No, you will probably conclude that it is either a recently developed weapon, or one that has never been revealed before.

Same thing here. The magic the cast is using will probably be thought of as a 'new' type of magic by the Psychics, designed to counter their own rapid progression.

It's the Magic Churches that will more likely go bananas, but even they might just think that a new rival church has appeared (heck, you can even throw in Belka to further lengthen that confusion).

And devices have little impact on this. I point to the various item summoning magic To Aruverse employs itself (summoning of rune-cards, summoning of wires, Ars Magma, and that's just from the top of my head).

[stormturmoil]

Yeesh, yeesh, I'll give...

I just wanted to make sure all this was thought out.

I'll be blunt; My main Bone of contention is the Imagination Breaker, because I don't like No-Limits-Fallacies, which this thing basically is.

When I see things like this, with no appreciable upper limit on them, I always want to scream "Things don't work that way!"

There is always someone bigger than you...

For example, going by the exact wording of the thing, the moment it started operating, everyone should have died...

why? it says even God-level constructs can be 'broken'

the Universe is a God-level construct...and was presumably Created using God-level powers, ergo magic of some kind or other...

and he's touching it...

He's like the Freaking Ideon! but without the bit about having to be destroyed first...

thus, he needs limits imposing, and soonest.

Because I do not see him wielding a power that can undo God-level powers...if it was so, the first thing that would happen (assuming the Universe wasn't destroyed by it) is that any and every God around would kill him.

This clearly hasn't happened. Ergo, he's not a threat to them. Ergo, that whole bit about God-Level powers must be either specific instances, or rhetoric.