New Mobile Report Gundam Wing: Frozen Teardrop (2010 Novel)

[IkuzeMinna]

Originally Posted by Kitsoru

Look, I was all well and for her translations- I was one of the only people actually willing to talk to her, it seems But that doesn't make an overreaction like that kosher. Grow a thicker skin for chrissakes. Welcome to the internet.

And you realize Deacon is/has been translating also, right?

Yes, that's why I added the '(this fast)'. As far as I know Zeonic Scanlations released only the prelude so far (correct me if I'm wrong).
And well, overreacting or not, stargazerlily never had any obligation toward anyone to translate FT, so if she quits because people criticize her or because she doesn't want to do it anymore or because the sky turned yellow then that's fine. Sure, it sucks, especially since all the previous chapters have been taken down as well, which might be slightly overreacting, but hey, it's her work, she can do with it whatever she wants. *shrug* (not trying to pick a fight here)

Seriously, this novel gave me more headaches than anything. I still don't get how Quatre's sis came to be. Trowa Phobos mentioned something about Mr. Winner saving his DNA. Okay, cool. But last time I checked you need two people to make a child. And since she doesn't look anything like her dad and everything like her bro, I'm guessing she's taking greatly after her mom. Which died when Quatre was born, hence why he can have only older sisters. So where did she come from?

[Kitsoru]

Originally Posted by IkuzeMinna

Seriously, this novel gave me more headaches than anything. I still don't get how Quatre's sis came to be. Trowa Phobos mentioned something about Mr. Winner saving his DNA. Okay, cool. But last time I checked you need two people to make a child. And since she doesn't look anything like her dad and everything like her bro, I'm guessing she's taking greatly after her mom. Which died when Quatre was born, hence why he can have only older sisters. So where did she come from?

Anime biology logic? XD

Or maybe Quatre cloned her from himself...? That's my guess, honestly..

[Obsidiandagger]

Originally Posted by Kitsoru

Anime biology logic? XD

Or maybe Quatre cloned her from himself...? That's my guess, honestly..

Thats the theory I am holding to. In nature clones happen in the form of Identical twins therefore making the each sibling the clone of the other, so it would make sense that artifical clones would follow the same basic concept and be considered siblings.

...........unless of course the sister thing is an act and she is actually the love child of quatre and dorothy and sumisawa is waiting to spring this on us and see how many fans get an aneurysm.

[Deacon Blues]

Here's the deal on translating, and I'll correlate it with other examples. When you translate something and it hits the net, you will take fodder for certain things. Translation should be subject to criticism. If you translate something and can't take the heat from it, don't post it to the net. Artists handle criticism in regards to their drawings, paintings, sculptures, etc. Musicians in the same regard with their songs, lyrics, beats, etc. The things about that particular person is that I was not the sole person pointing out errors: others were too. She rattled off some excuse of "I'll change them later" or blamed it on medication or a late night, SOMETHING. But they were never corrected in the end. So this in turn ends up leading to posts like the one on AnimeNewsNetwork about a viewers opinion on the novel being skewed and the perpetual spreading of misinformation. A poster on here was already talking about how it was Zechs' mother when it should have been grandmother. Do you get what I'm saying?

I don't really know any other way of pointing things out other than just saying "this wasn't translated correctly." You can't beat around the bush.

A notation on the topic of "test tube" babies. You have a sperm and ex from two separate donors. After fertilization of the egg occurs, the zygote is allowed to grow for a while in a nutrition solution. This little doodabber is then placed in a test tube. Once the cell cluster has reached a certain maturity, it is implanted into a surrogate mother (or the surrogate). This in itself is a problem because the cells have to bond with the uterus wall. After they've bonded, fast forward nine months to a woman sweating her balls off screaming and FWOOMP! out comes teh baybay!

And Ikuze, I think you meant younger sisters. Remember, Iria is his older sister :P But in the end it doesn't matter because I just explained it all.

[Elo the Blue]

Originally Posted by Obsidiandagger

Thats the theory I am holding to. In nature clones happen in the form of Identical twins therefore making the each sibling the clone of the other, so it would make sense that artifical clones would follow the same basic concept and be considered siblings.

...........unless of course the sister thing is an act and she is actually the love child of quatre and dorothy and sumisawa is waiting to spring this on us and see how many fans get an aneurysm.

I'd actually be cool with it, if that actually came to pass. Quatherine doesn't seem to have Dorothy's eyebrows though.

[Deacon Blues]

Okay. I'm attempting to make some sort of sense out of this bizarre naming situation. Here's what is going on in the official world of katakana (or so I can decipher).

Point One: カトリーヌ (katoriinu) is basically Catherine. No doubt about it. Catherine as in マリー・カトリーヌ (Marie Catherine).

Point Two: キャサリン (kyasarin) is basically Catherine too. However, this one is primarily used for names with a K. Katharine Hepburn, anyone? Other variations are Katherine and Kathryn.

So! With this in mind. Catherine Bloom, aka the circus freak, is point two. Therefore, since Quatre's mother utilizes point one's katakana, I'm electing that spelling to refer to his sister. So it will now be Katherine. At least for my information and translation purposes.

[Elo the Blue]

Good stuff Deacon. The attention to detail is really appreciated.

[IkuzeMinna]

Originally Posted by Obsidiandagger

Thats the theory I am holding to. In nature clones happen in the form of Identical twins therefore making the each sibling the clone of the other, so it would make sense that artificial clones would follow the same basic concept and be considered siblings.

Wow, that would actually make sense. Doubt Sumizawa will twist it like that though.

...........unless of course the sister thing is an act and she is actually the love child of quatre and dorothy and sumisawa is waiting to spring this on us and see how many fans get an aneurysm.

LOL That would explain why she's on the evil side!

Originally Posted by Deacon Blues

A notation on the topic of "test tube" babies. You have a sperm and ex from two separate donors. After fertilization of the egg occurs, the zygote is allowed to grow for a while in a nutrition solution. This little doodabber is then placed in a test tube. Once the cell cluster has reached a certain maturity, it is implanted into a surrogate mother (or the surrogate). This in itself is a problem because the cells have to bond with the uterus wall. After they've bonded, fast forward nine months to a woman sweating her balls off screaming and FWOOMP! out comes teh baybay!

And Ikuze, I think you meant younger sisters. Remember, Iria is his older sister :P But in the end it doesn't matter because I just explained it all.

...I'm pretty sure I meant Quatre can have only older (fullblooded) sisters. Anything that comes after him is impossible because his mother died when he was born.

Which leads us to his so called younger sister. To make a baby you need a sperm (father) and an egg (mother). The novel mentions something about Trowa Phobos saying Mr. Winner probably saved his DNA somewhere. Okay, that covers the father's part. Who is her mother though? If she was cloned off her dad's DNA alone she ought to look like him. Does she? No. She looks like her bro, who looks like his mom, meaning she is not cloned and that they must have the same mother. But Quatre's mother died 15 years prior to the series' start. Yes, welcome to WTFland, we hope you enjoy your stay.
In order for this to work, Mrs. Winner ought to have an egg frozen and kept for 15+ years, too, along with her hubby's sperm. That's the sentence I'm missing. Nevermind the logic behind it all.
Really, why Sumizawa would choose something so unnecessarily complicated and creepy over say, her being Quatre's niece is beyond me.

Also, what you explained is artificial insemination, Deacon. But as far as I understood the concept of test tube babies, childbirth was supposed to be the problem in space, not sex. Excerpt from Quatre's Episode Zero:

When development in space colonies began, the difficult conditions of space led to reproductive abnormalities, and childbirth was permitted only through artificial means. It wasn't until after A.C. 100 that these difficulties were overcome and the first generation was born naturally.

Meaning babies in space were possibly conceived but not 'born'. No poor woman squeezing babies out of her there. More like 'oh look, she's pregnant!' *shoves embryo into a water tank*. First part might not apply.

EDIT: To illustrate my point and because I'm having waaay to much fun with this.

Spoiler for family tree:

EDIT 2: The above pic is a joke folks. Don't take it seriously.

[Deacon Blues]

Being a test tube baby means you were fertilized via in vetro fertilization. In vetro means "in glass".

[Kuroi Hadou]

Originally Posted by IkuzeMinna

Meaning babies in space were possibly conceived but not 'born'. No poor woman squeezing babies out of her there. More like 'oh look, she's pregnant!' *shoves embryo into a water tank*. First part might not apply.

Ever heard of a C-section?

[Kitsoru]

Originally Posted by IkuzeMinna

EDIT: To illustrate my point and because I'm having waaay to much fun with this.

Spoiler for family tree:

Unfortunately, you're wrong. Cloning simply means the clone has the same DNA. Remember those Punnet Squares you studied in high school biology? There are both dominant and recessive genes for all sorts of things. You came out the way you did because your genes just happened to work out the way they did with your given possible traits. However, your clone can come out bearing DIFFERENT traits than you came out having, because they were still possible outcomes of the genes you carry.

The clone we think of when we see or hear about this stuff in scifi isn't how it actually works. Case in point, this kitten and the cat she was cloned from: http://www.accessexcellence.org/WN/SU/copycat.php

That kitten looks quite different from her original.

That said, in order for this to work, this would also mean that Zayeed Winner would have to carry blonde, blue-eyed recessive genes himself- which, considering how Quatre and Iria turned out, is entirely possible. AND it still leaves the question of where the egg Katherine was born from came from, and who the surrogate mother was.

[MichaelKnight]

Regarding IVF, both you IkuzeMinna, and Deacon Blues are right. IVF works both ways. Test tube babies are artificially conceived... and artificially inseminated.

It depends if the mother can/wants to carry and deliver the thing. If she's healthy and yet, no matter how much she and her partner rock the bed she can't get pregnant, then they'll resolve to IVF and then have the fetus implanted in her. However, if it doesn't hold on to her, she doesn't really have a choice but to hire a surrogate mother. Either way she does it, the thing isn't conceived and “placed” in the womb through sex.

[Kitsoru]

http://pixiv.cc/usabiba/archives/2105108.html

Kiriban! = moar (Valentine'sish?) 1xR for us.

EDIT: Aha! Got my charge for the new issue Thursday, according to my statement. Hopefully, I will have it in my hands tomorrow...

[Elo the Blue]

Originally Posted by Kitsoru

http://pixiv.cc/usabiba/archives/2105108.html

Kiriban! = moar (Valentine'sish?) 1xR for us.

EDIT: Aha! Got my charge for the new issue Thursday, according to my statement. Hopefully, I will have it in my hands tomorrow...

I'm liking Relena's black stockings.

[IkuzeMinna]

Originally Posted by Kitsoru

Unfortunately, you're wrong. Cloning simply means the clone has the same DNA. (...) You came out the way you did because your genes just happened to work out the way they did with your given possible traits. However, your clone can come out bearing DIFFERENT traits than you came out having, because they were still possible outcomes of the genes you carry.

The clone we think of when we see or hear about this stuff in scifi isn't how it actually works. Case in point, this kitten and the cat she was cloned from: http://www.accessexcellence.org/WN/SU/copycat.php

That kitten looks quite different from her original.

If you look at its fur only. I'm willing to bet that shape of body, head, ears, nose and paws are quite similar (note: similar, not same).
If I remember correctly color is where most deviations can happen. So Katherine being blond and blue-eyed is definitely valid. But if she was cloned off Zayeed's DNA she ought to bear some kind of resemblance to him, does she not? I mean, look at fraternal twins. Or heck, children and their parents.
Zayeed has sharp features, a long face, slender eyes, prominent nose and all that. As much of a joke as this is, Trowa looks like him. Or even Noin. Not Katherine. She has fair features, big eyes and a very round face. There isn't an ounce of Zayeed in her (maybe the bangs). And please don't go 'she's female' on me. Noin has a long face and slender eyes, too. Just compare her to Une or Sally.

But what the heck am I arguing about anyway. Duo's son is a carbon copy of himself, Zechs' and Noin's kids are palette swaps of their parents and some random hobo is the spitting image of Trowa. With that logic it's only natural for a clone not to look like the original if he ain't part of the main cast. And it's not like she is one, anyway.
Really, xerox generation is not supposed to be explained. At least not in a novel like this. All I'm gonna say is that Sumizawa's reason for having Katherine look like Quatre because she's his sister sounds fishy to me. Can I leave it at that?

AND it still leaves the question of where the egg Katherine was born from came from, and who the surrogate mother was.

Okay, hold on, this is something I'm having trouble with. In real life a woman has to give birth to a child, regardless if she's its mother or not, and regardless if it's a test tube baby or not. There is no such thing like an artificial womb in our world. As for test tube babies:

Originally Posted by Deacon Blues

Being a test tube baby means you were fertilized via in vetro fertilization. In vetro means "in glass".

As far as the real world is concerned this is all correct, yes?

But in AC 'test tube babies' were used because it was childbirth that killed you. Two examples: one would be Heero Yuy asking Angelina if she would rather give birth to her kid on Earth because it used to be tricky in space (she tells him off). The other would be what Zayeed tells his wife.

Spoiler for Ep0 - Quatre's birth:

random note 1: what a bunch of idiots.
random note 2: the bundle Zayeed is holding is drawn a little too big. no wonder Quatrine died, it looks like she gave birth to a freakin walrus.

Apparently, getting pregnant in space works. What people were freaking over was giving birth. This made me think that a 'test tube baby' in AC was a person that was created completely artificially, from insemination to birth. Like in Seed, in an artificial womb (the reason Quatre went emo). Fertilizing an egg and then planting it into a woman to give birth to would make no sense, because it would apparently kill her. lol Aliens. Understand what I'm saying?
As to why childbirth in space was such a big deal, I have no clue. To quote Kuroi Hadou, ever heard of a C-section?

Though seriously, I'd be very grateful if someone could clear this whole test tube thing in AC up for me.

[Kitsoru]

Mirror, Mirror on the Wall....

Spoiler for Who's the fairest of them all? :D:

Originally Posted by Elo the Blue

I'm liking Relena's black stockings.

Grade-A Zettai Ryouiki!

Originally Posted by IkuzeMinna

If you look at its fur only. I'm willing to bet that shape of body, head, ears, nose and paws are quite similar (note: similar, not same).
If I remember correctly color is where most deviations can happen. So Katherine being blond and blue-eyed is definitely valid. But if she was cloned off Zayeed's DNA she ought to bear some kind of resemblance to him, does she not? I mean, look at fraternal twins. Or heck, children and their parents.
Zayeed has sharp features, a long face, slender eyes, prominent nose and all that. As much of a joke as this is, Trowa looks like him. Or even Noin. Not Katherine. She has fair features, big eyes and a very round face. There isn't an ounce of Zayeed in her (maybe the bangs). And please don't go 'she's female' on me. Noin has a long face and slender eyes, too. Just compare her to Une or Sally.

Honestly, it's anime. Facial features are just not part of the style Wing is drawn in- and Noin is a grown woman, whereas Katherine is still a young girl- and young people are ALWAYS drawn with rounder faces than older ones. That said, Quatre never looked like Zayeed either- does that make him not his father's son either? Perhaps if we saw him now as an adult, his face would resemble Zayeed's much more.

Originally Posted by IkuzeMinna

But what the heck am I arguing about anyway. Duo's son is a carbon copy of himself, Zechs' and Noin's kids are palette swaps of their parents and some random hobo is the spitting image of Trowa. With that logic it's only natural for a clone not to look like the original if he ain't part of the main cast. And it's not like she is one, anyway.
Really, xerox generation is not supposed to be explained. At least not in a novel like this. All I'm gonna say is that Sumizawa's reason for having Katherine look like Quatre because she's his sister sounds fishy to me. Can I leave it at that?

Yes. This. Please do.

Originally Posted by IkuzeMinna

But in AC 'test tube babies' were used because it was childbirth that killed you.

This. This is why I'm still kinda iffy on the explanations thus far...

Though, I will note- C-Sections have their own grand amount of complications. You're cutting a woman open while she's still conscious- it's very easy to bleed to death if something goes slightly wrong by C-Section, which is why it isn't done as often (my mom had two of them).

[Elo the Blue]

Originally Posted by Kitsoru

Mirror, Mirror on the Wall....

Spoiler for Who's the fairest of them all? :D:

LMFAO at the outrage on Duo's face.

Heero's probably thinking to himself, "Should I do it...?"

Grade-A Zettai Ryouiki!

Indeed...

[Deacon Blues]

They spelled her name Quaterine? Oh good lord this naming system is getting effing annoying. Here's a thought. The Gundam pilots that we know of are all apparently on Mars. Helloooooo Martian birth. ?

[Kitsoru]

Originally Posted by Deacon Blues

They spelled her name Quaterine? Oh good lord this naming system is getting effing annoying. Here's a thought. The Gundam pilots that we know of are all apparently on Mars. Helloooooo Martian birth. ?

/imagines aliens popping out of stomachs D:

Hey Deacon, not FT related, but I noticed on REI's last blog post she mentioned something about Heero's birthday apparently being today-- I'm curious to figure out what she's saying about it/where that date comes from. Any idea? http://pixiv.cc/usabiba/archives/2105108.html

EDIT: Seems to be according to the Japanese wikipedia- but I wonder where that comes from? Anyone have any ideas?

[Deacon Blues]

http://zeonic-republic.net/look_closely.jpg

*walks away whistling*