The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya - Episode 28 Discussion / Poll [2006 TV ep. 9]

[RiXeD]

Originally Posted by Chibi-chan

What's really ironic about the last scene was that in the preview for Episode 9 in Episode 8, Haruhi did thank Kyon. It made the ending even better.

Chocolate bar for you for pointing tat out.

[Shirobane]

Originally Posted by C.A.

Well, does this mean that its actually love at first sight for Kyon?

Not so much love at first sight, attraction doesn't mean love of course. But in my mind Kyon does like Haruhi, but he just likes ogling at Mikuru a bit more

Kyon's thoughts of Mikuru is something thats almost unique to this story.

Well you know I'm a Haruhiist at heart, but Mikuru's a cute and busty girl...and very moe at that (hey even Haruhi admits it.) In reality if a guy saw a girl like that, he'd probably be picking his shattered jaw off the floor. I guess in this case, it's hard to fault Kyon for ogling/having positive thoughts about Mikuru.

and maybe a different spin on it...

Mikuru is basically Haruhi's Barbie doll. Her squeals and overall door-mattedness would probably activate a guy's "Knight in Shining Armour" mode in less than a second. Is it then abnormal for Kyon to harbour tender thoughts of Mikuru? Not in the slightest, and you'll see that not many people (if at all) would fault him for being...well...a guy. However the detail in the relationships between members of the SOS団 isn't very common in shows in general.

And we've been presented this story by Kyon's views. So is Haruhi the main focus of the story or Kyon?

Well judging by the title of the show, I'd have to say Haruhi
But it is a very viable material for debate. Is the focus of the show on the character that experiences the story as it unfolds or is it on the character that puts them in those situations in the first place?

[Deathkillz]

Originally Posted by C.A.

And we've been presented this story by Kyon's views. So is Haruhi the main focus of the story or Kyon?

i think kyon is still the main focus of the story even though hes also presenting his own views...the story focus is about his adventures and personall opinions in which he is forced to do stuff with haruhi doing all the forcing

[CrowKenobi]

Originally Posted by Shirobane

Mikuru is basically Haruhi's Barbie doll. Her squeals and overall door-mattedness would probably activate a guy's "Knight in Shining Armour" mode in less than a second. Is it then abnormal for Kyon to harbour tender thoughts of Mikuru? Not in the slightest, and you'll see that not many people (if at all) would fault him for being...well...a guy. However the detail in the relationships between members of the SOS団 isn't very common in shows in general.

I can agree with that statement since I also believe that Kyon is attracted to Mikuru because he's reacting to Haruhi's treatment of her.

Do you think that Haruhi was trying to kiss Kyon before he woke up? I wonder if she was influenced by that crazy dream she had a while back...

[iamandragon]

As I was re-watching episode 9 for my 5th time I had this thought...
Everytime Nagato looks into the bookshelf she's actually staring out of the screen at us the viewers just like the insect did in episode 7, trying to tell us 'what are you looking at? What do you want to see?'

Another thought came up:
When Kyon was in the clubroom notice Nagato's stance for holding the book is different---she alwayse used to have the book lying on her lap. But when Kyon's sleep she held her book up. Could that be her peeking at Kyon over the book?

[haruhism]

Originally Posted by iamandragon

As I was re-watching episode 9 for my 5th time I had this thought...
Everytime Nagato looks into the bookshelf she's actually staring out of the screen at us the viewers just like the insect did in episode 7, trying to tell us 'what are you looking at? What do you want to see?'

Another thought came up:
When Kyon was in the clubroom notice Nagato's stance for holding the book is different---she alwayse used to have the book lying on her lap. But when Kyon's sleep she held her book up. Could that be her peeking at Kyon over the book?

those are some very good points, if it were anyone aside from nagato you would be reading too much into it; but it does seem that every move she makes is well thought out. also the second cardigan thing too would fit well into the peeking at kyon thing.

Haruhi's reaction was somewhat drawn out. If she were merely looking down upon him as he woke up i doubt she would have been <-- but moreso a (oh ur up) kind of deal. She must have been doing something suspicious...whether it was a kiss or preparing to draw on kyon or whatever her twisted yet lovable character could have done - for her to be rendered speechless and emoting like she did to mikuru in the baseball episode... well ya

and so the ending was tender but i really hope a season 2 comes out cuz there's just so much more potential!

[DragoonKain3]

Argh, awesome discussion guys. Good enough to pull me away from Ever 17, hehehehe. Nin! Nin! XD


My 2 cents on the love theory. First let's eliminate two contenders...

Oh yeah, there's Itsuki-->Kyon, which I firmly believe is there. I mean, Itsuki has moved his face way too close to Kyon's far too many times for me to believe otherwise. Too bad this couple won't happen, unless Kyon happens to be bisexual. There's always doujins for you yaoi fans. XD

Then there's Yuki-->Kyon. Honestly, no clue at all. Apart from being Kyon's 'yes-woman' as much as Kyon is Haruhi's 'yes man' and the second cardigan mystery, there's really no clue at all as Yuki is more Ice Queeny than most other characters. Sadly, even if it exist, I don't think it will ever be reciprocated, as he considers her as something mysterious rather than something romantic. At least, I haven't heard him say or thought something about Yuki that could even remotely be considered as romantic.


Now for the true debate, KyonXMikuru vs. KyonXHaruhi.

If one just looks at the obvious clues, then one can only see that Haruhi-->Kyon-->Mikuru. We've seen what looks like jealous spurts of Haruhi over Kyon, and we know that Kyon is yet another victim of Mikuru's moeness. I don't think these are disputable, but we all know that it takes two to tango, so...

What about Mikuru-->Kyon? It can be argued that it does exist, because:
1) Mikuru did ask if Kyon would take her in if she were ever be unfit for marriage
2) Mikuru did look mighty disappointed when Haruhi said she can't go with Kyon to get the heater

However, the better question is whether or not she would act on her feelings if she did have them. IMO, the chance of that happening is very slim because if Mikuru was a D&D character, she would be a lawful one... to the extreme. I mean, apart from her complete subservience to Haruhi, she can't give Kyon details about the future because it's classified information, let alone break the 'no romance with past people' law. Until she does the former, I find the latter highly unlikely.

Now Kyon-->Haruhi, that's a tricky subject. As far as we know, we have complete interiority of Kyon's thoughts, thus the ONLY reasonable assumption we can all make is that Kyon has only eyes on Mikuru. Thus if we were to argue for Kyon-->Haruhi as of now, we would have to say that he subconsciously likes Haruhi. Which, I admit, is guesswork that in the end might be all wrong even though when everything seems to point in that direction. Still, we do know that:
1) he finds her attractive enough (striking beauty remark in eps. 1)
2) For someone who claims he isn't interested in her, he thinks about Haruhi and her actions more than he does about the rest of the cast combined. Seems like she's always in his head for some reason
3) He himself admitted that he didn't know what came over him when he started to converse with Haruhi for the very first time. Wonder what the reason can that be?
4) KyoAni did wonderful work in showing Kyon tightly grasping Haruhi's hand last episode, all without him noticing it. And if I'm not mistaken, he was the one who initiated the hand hold, since he was pulling his arm up while Haruhi held hers at more or less the same level.
5) While he would've done it for anyone else, his lack of complaint after falling from the cliff with Haruhi is mighty interesting indeed when that's all he does whenever Haruhi does something dangerous
6) He actually was looking for recognition of his deeds in this episode, which would lead us to believe that he isn't as unwilling as his thoughts might otherwise suggest

So yes, it's still a stretch to say that Kyon feels more than friendship for Haruhi at this point. But if he ever does explicitly say so in the future, we can all look back and say that the signs were indeed there.




Now my thoughts on KyonXHaruhi, let me say that I do not feel they are the bickering couple at all because a) I don't think I've seen Kyon to be the initiator of the verbal arguement and b) Kyon only really speaks up when Haruhi is wrong, stepping over the line, or the matter is a life and death situation. In other words, Kyon rarely gives as much as he gets, he and Haruhi don't argue about trivial stuff, and they don't argue just for the sake of arguing. If he actually voiced his thoughts all the time then that's another matter, but so far all he's been doing is being Harhi's voice of reason, which is hardly what I would consider as bickering.

And yes, I find HaruhiXKyon to be the most probable couple ending. This is mainly because in the end of the anime series, the KyonXHaruhi dynamic is changing and evolving, while KyonXMikuru is pretty much stagnant so far. Plus, I get the nagging feeling that Kyon's attraction to Mikuru would just be physical infatuation, nothing more.

I still like KyonXMikuru better, because it provides better drama as not only are they going up against a futuristic race and their laws, but they are up against fate/God herself. But for reasons I have stated before, I find it very unlikely, and considering the mystery/sci-fi theme of the novel/show, I doubt that it would ever switch direction to heavy drama.

[Shrimpcraft]

Originally Posted by DragoonKain3

I still like KyonXMikuru better, because it provides better drama as not only are they going up against a futuristic race and their laws, but they are up against fate/God herself. But for reasons I have stated before, I find it very unlikely, and considering the mystery/sci-fi theme of the novel/show, I doubt that it would ever switch direction to heavy drama.

somehow ur quote here reminds me of the last ep in onegai sensei when mizuho argued with her gov't about saving kei


Question: So is Haruhi basically a genius or something? I mean she knows how to play baseball, juggle, do well in school and i believe a lot more things...

[Orchunter226]

A

Originally Posted by DragoonKain3

Then there's Yuki-->Kyon. Honestly, no clue at all. Apart from being Kyon's 'yes-woman' as much as Kyon is Haruhi's 'yes man' and the second cardigan mystery, there's really no clue at all as Yuki is more Ice Queeny than most other characters. Sadly, even if it exist, I don't think it will ever be reciprocated, as he considers her as something mysterious rather than something romantic. At least, I haven't heard him say or thought something about Yuki that could even remotely be considered as romantic.

He does say one thing on it. In the episode where Haruhi first brings the bunny outfit, he mentions that he wouldn't mind seeing Yuki in it. But that is all I believe. So nothing really there.

Originally Posted by DragoonKain3

What about Mikuru-->Kyon? It can be argued that it does exist, because:
1) Mikuru did ask if Kyon would take her in if she were ever be unfit for marriage
2) Mikuru did look mighty disappointed when Haruhi said she can't go with Kyon to get the heater

However, the better question is whether or not she would act on her feelings if she did have them. IMO, the chance of that happening is very slim because if Mikuru was a D&D character, she would be a lawful one... to the extreme. I mean, apart from her complete subservience to Haruhi, she can't give Kyon details about the future because it's classified information, let alone break the 'no romance with past people' law. Until she does the former, I find the latter highly unlikely.

Now Kyon-->Haruhi, that's a tricky subject. As far as we know, we have complete interiority of Kyon's thoughts, thus the ONLY reasonable assumption we can all make is that Kyon has only eyes on Mikuru. Thus if we were to argue for Kyon-->Haruhi as of now, we would have to say that he subconsciously likes Haruhi. Which, I admit, is guesswork that in the end might be all wrong even though when everything seems to point in that direction. Still, we do know that:
1) he finds her attractive enough (striking beauty remark in eps. 1)
2) For someone who claims he isn't interested in her, he thinks about Haruhi and her actions more than he does about the rest of the cast combined. Seems like she's always in his head for some reason
3) He himself admitted that he didn't know what came over him when he started to converse with Haruhi for the very first time. Wonder what the reason can that be?
4) KyoAni did wonderful work in showing Kyon tightly grasping Haruhi's hand last episode, all without him noticing it. And if I'm not mistaken, he was the one who initiated the hand hold, since he was pulling his arm up while Haruhi held hers at more or less the same level.
5) While he would've done it for anyone else, his lack of complaint after falling from the cliff with Haruhi is mighty interesting indeed when that's all he does whenever Haruhi does something dangerous
6) He actually was looking for recognition of his deeds in this episode, which would lead us to believe that he isn't as unwilling as his thoughts might otherwise suggest

That seems the most probable. Many people like others and won't even admit it to themselves. Though he thinks conciously that he only likes her looks. He seems to get along with her. Kyon keeps coming back to the club, even though he himself doesn't know why. Deep down inside I think he is falling for her. All the reasons you give are good examples.

The MikuruxKyon is only there I think because Kyon is physically attracted to Mikuru. Plus, when haruhi uses her as a plaything it brings out Kyon's need to save her. Any guy would. I don't think there's anything more than that between them.

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by Shrimpcraft

Question: So is Haruhi basically a genius or something? I mean she knows how to play baseball, juggle, do well in school and i believe a lot more things...

I suppose you're supposed to draw your own conclusions. If you knew someone who was really good at most things she did either in physical activity or academics, would you call her a genius?

I'd just call her someone who taps into all the potential that most people ignore, waste, or don't think they have.

[panzerfan]

here's the game that the Kyon+Koizumi's playing apparently...
http://ejf.cside.ne.jp/review/dragonallstars.html

Well on that, Haruhi academically is very, very well rounded and quite elite.

[Kamui4356]

Originally Posted by Shrimpcraft

Question: So is Haruhi basically a genius or something? I mean she knows how to play baseball, juggle, do well in school and i believe a lot more things...

I've always thought that was an extention of her power. That is to say, if Haruhi wants to be good at activity x, she just is. Of course this works at a subconscious level, so Haruhi isn't aware of it.

[C.A.]

Its more like if Haruhi wants to do something, she will do it really good subconsciously. She doesn't need to put in effort and try to do something well lol

[npal]

Makes me wonder why doesn't Haruhi's subconscious powers affect Kyon instantly and make him fall for Haruhi instantly Or maybe Yuki is concentrating on cancelling any such small effect on Kyon, so he remains relatively unaffected.

[Vexx]

I prefer the theory that subconsciously she may be aware of her effect and the idea that she could just will Kyon to like her terrifies her.... hence all the force shields, roadblocks, tossed herring, and other debris to see if Kyon really does like her.

As usual, all predictive models are tentative as more data arrives

[npal]

Terrifies her in what way?

[Vexx]

I think of it as the "rich girl's dilemma" ... does he like *me* or my wallet? In Haruhi's case, if she can simply will Kyon to like her, it doesn't really have the meaning that it would if he likes her independently.

I realize this treads really close to various metaphysical issues but I'm averting my eyes. Also keep in mind that I'm speculating about Haruhi's subconscious where most bets of rationality are off.

[npal]

Eh, well, Haruhi didn't give me the impression of someone who is as calculating when she wants something. She reminds me of a girl I'm playing with sometimes. She's always hyper, and when she wants something, she just states so and takes it. Like how Haruhi acts with everyone in her club, especially Mikuru

The same is apparent when Kyon talks with Yuki and Itsuki about Haruhi. The theory is that if Haruhi gets bored, monsters and all sorts of calamities appear, so we have to keep Haruhi pleased. This adds to my impression that Haruhi really doesn't hold back when she wants something. What seems to be the case however is that she doesn't actually WISH for something to happen if she feels the current situation can be handled as it is or is interesting enough to keep her occupied. Which means that if at some point, Haruhi gets frustrated because Kyon doesn't reciprocate her feelings, she'll probably wish for something drastic.

[Soujiro10]

Personally, to me it does seem like Haruhi has some sort of internal roadblock or what-have-you when it comes to Kyon. I mean, like in episode 5 with the random drawing of the toothpicks Kyon did end up going with Mikuru and Yuki alone instead of with Haruhi (who seemed pretty annoyed about it). With her powers it should have been pretty easy to alter chances so either it 1) didnt work or 2) it did work and it was intentional except it was due to something with her subconscious. Well, theres another idea but it has something to do with my own personal theory between the true relationship between Haruhi and Kyon.....so Ill just leave it at that

About the whole Kyon ---> Haruhi thing, my whole take on it is that Kyon is deep down drawn to Haruhi. Not to say romantically exactly, but that it basically makes life interesting being around her. He used to be a fantasizer/dreamer until the cold hard facts of reality became apparent and he gave in to boring normality. Haruhi is like the child that he left behind, so while on the surface of his mind he fights her off deep-down he cant help but cling on to her.

Also, to a guy like Kyon (and probably to a lot of guys in general), a girl like Haruhi would really seem like a lot to handle (regardless if shes cute or not). Being with her romantically would need quite a lot of energy. This is pretty much the opposite when considering Mikuru, who acts and seems much more submissive. So in regards to Kyon's romantic view on the two girls it pretty much boils down to the question of wether he prefers to be on top or not

By the way, was I the only one who thought it felt odd to see scenes in episode 9 where Kyon wasn't in the vicinity? I mean, most of the anime has been pretty much shown with his point-of-view in mind so it felt kinda jarring to have the first-person narrator be out of the picture....

[sleeplessNites]

Does anyone has a clue why Yuki tilt her head towards the radio at the end of the talk show?

To me, nothing short of anime conquered mars would captivate her attention from whatever shes reading, apart from Kyon.

My mind has been running the likes of yuki turn up to the clubroom in a brown bear suit handing a pot to Kyon: "Pot, lend it to u. Use it. As soon as u get home(dont ask me y at home)"
Kyon: ????