Marineford Arc discussion (Anime-only)

[FlareKnight]

Well going to just bypass the whole "who was owning who" argument since no one is going to change anyone's minds here. I'm rather impressed people can write huge counter arguments to each other and keep it up.

Well interesting timing from Shanks. Certainly helps make up for Coby killing this episode. I get the point he is making, but could probably have done it without appearing both insane and a gigantic crybaby. I hate Akainu but even I wasn't going to be bothered if he blasted Coby out of the series. Do wonder about the timing of Shanks though. Arrives after so much has happened. If it hadn't been for the Coby moment he wouldn't have even made it before Luffy got taken out. I can't imagine he came all this way just to tell Whitebeards corpse that he told him so. Maybe just there to pay his respects and possibly to take his body out of there.

[Slayerx]

Originally Posted by -Suigetsu-

It's relevant because it not only landed a hole in WB's chest, it also got Jozu and temporarily Marco, out of the war. That's why it's relevant.

But as i said it was BOUND to happen... if it did not happen sooner it would have happened later. WB knew he was running into the battlefield with that handicap and so did marco and jozu; they should have been ready but they were not

Also, Garp and Sengoku can't both be fighting in the war, they need to stand there and guard Ace.

You act like Garp and Sengoku's lack of participation is due to plot reasons or something, it's not. If they weren't there, Marco would have easily gotten Ace a long time ago.

True but one of them certainly could have and they could have done a lot of damage

Then there's of course Whitebeard having to hold back on his quakes because of his allies.

not sure how that matters... if WB did disregard his allies and make full use of his powers he would have hurt his allies; he gains as much as he looses. What he gains from fully using his powers he looses by eliminating his own forces.

Originally Posted by -Suigetsu-

Whitebeard was able to keep up, strategy wise with Sengoku for the entire war. He easily saw through one of Sengoku's plans when he told the New World Captains to separate and go right and left.

I rather disagree... Sengoku seemed to have the better planning on his side.
Whitebeard had no counter for the Kuma's except to ignore them and charge forward. He also had no counter for the walls; he just ended up getting lucky that oars left them an opening... He also had no plan for getting to Ace and freeing him; that ended up coming from the hands of outsiders that he did not planned on having. Whitebeard came up with a few good moves but for the most part his strategy was charge forward. Hell even his plan to use coated ships didn't really amount to too much when you consider that sengoku had those walls and was ready for Whitebeard's to get that close in the first place... Frankly i think it was rather foolish for WB to not try and send in forces from behind where marineford's defenses were weakest.

[Bern-san]

Originally Posted by FlareKnight

Well going to just bypass the whole "who was owning who" argument since no one is going to change anyone's minds here. I'm rather impressed people can write huge counter arguments to each other and keep it up.

Well interesting timing from Shanks. Certainly helps make up for Coby killing this episode. I get the point he is making, but could probably have done it without appearing both insane and a gigantic crybaby. I hate Akainu but even I wasn't going to be bothered if he blasted Coby out of the series. Do wonder about the timing of Shanks though. Arrives after so much has happened. If it hadn't been for the Coby moment he wouldn't have even made it before Luffy got taken out. I can't imagine he came all this way just to tell Whitebeards corpse that he told him so. Maybe just there to pay his respects and possibly to take his body out of there.

well when WB was making the preparations for the war, Kaidou (the other Yonkou we know, who massacrated Moria's crew long time ago) planned to attack him but Shanks came and stopped him. this was mentioned by the marine so we didn't actually see the fight between Shanks and Kaidou and the result is still unknown

don't know how much time has passed from the start of the war up to this point but i think that may be the reason he arrived a little bit late

[shankss]

Originally Posted by -Suigetsu-

Zero planning huh? You might as well outright call the pirates all a bunch of idiots then.

Clearly they had planning and strategy.

- Entering Marineford with coated ships to invade the bay and bypass the 50+ Marine Battleships.

- And keeping a coated ship hidden undersea as a trump card.

Absolutely, I didnt even bother to write the only two plan Whitebeard managed to pull.An entry and escape plan against all marine traps (ex : Trapping them in a room, volcano attack to crush the exit ship, Melting the solid ice to boil them and rest...) and leave the main objective to pure luck...But from fanboy perspective, you are probly thinking that Marco can fly in there, melt the chains with his 1337 ion cannon lasers while assaulting cannon fodder with dual chainguns attached to his wings and finally grab Ace.

Not even mentioning that they stealthed all their way right into the trap.
If you still think that it was a brilliant plan, Please do tell me what would Whitebeard and his pals do if its wasnt for Luffy co.

He easily saw through one of Sengoku's plans when he told the New World Captains to separate and go right and left.

Because taking a direct stab into your chest from your top trusted commanders and moving your entire team into a boiling pot are brilliant strategies.Because all a commander has to do is to give orders about which direction they should run.Whatever you say, Sun Tzu.

The Pirates were winning because they were always pushing the Marines back, never the other way around. Deal with it.

See guys, thats why you should avoid fanboys.

[-Suigetsu-]

Originally Posted by shankss

Absolutely, I didnt even bother to write the only two plan Whitebeard managed to pull.An entry and escape plan against all marine traps (ex : Trapping them in a room, volcano attack to crush the exit ship, Melting the solid ice to boil them and rest...) and leave the main objective to pure luck...But from fanboy perspective, you are probly thinking that Marco can fly in there, melt the chains with his 1337 ion cannon lasers while assaulting cannon fodder with dual chainguns attached to his wings and finally grab Ace.

No argument in here, lol.

Originally Posted by shankss

Not even mentioning that they stealthed all their way right into the trap.
If you still think that it was a brilliant plan, Please do tell me what would Whitebeard and his pals do if its wasnt for Luffy co.

If it's wasn't for Luffy doing what?

Spend less time on making terrible attempts at flamebaiting and more time elaborating on your posts.

Originally Posted by shankss

Because taking a direct stab into your chest from your top trusted commanders and moving your entire team into a boiling pot are brilliant strategies.Because all a commander has to do is to give orders about which direction they should run.Whatever you say, Sun Tzu.

Cute desperate attempt at trying to demean the Pirates, try harder.

Originally Posted by shankss

See guys, thats why you should avoid fanboys.

Lol.

[SkoolRumble4Ya]

Honestly Whitebeard would've of lost anyway because he was already plan on dying ever since he set foot in Marineford.

[Pwnago]

Your still really forgetting about the Schibukai there are SEVEN of them, plus a lot more fake kumas shooting out lasers. They weren't even doing much. So would you say Whitebeard and the priates would fight on even terms IF the Schibukai were involved :/?

Luffy was the person who was encouraging everyone, that is why Whitebeard was protecting Luffy, it wasn't only because he was Ace's brother, it was also he was giving Whitebeard's subordinates courage.

[-Suigetsu-]

Originally Posted by Slayerx

But as i said it was BOUND to happen... if it did not happen sooner it would have happened later.

Which is why I've already previously acknowledged that the pirates lose when that happens.

Originally Posted by Slayerx

WB knew he was running into the battlefield with that handicap and so did marco and jozu; they should have been ready but they were not

WB did, but Marco and Jozu sure as hell didn't, otherwise they wouldn't have been so darn surprised. As for why they didn't know, it's because that WB was always constantly on life supports on his ship which were helping him.

Originally Posted by Slayerx

True but one of them certainly could have and they could have done a lot of damage

No because as we saw when Sengoku was alone, they managed to free Ace. Both of them were needed there.

You see when fighting on that execution platform, it can easily be destroyed. That's why Garp went to go meet Marco in the sky before punching him in the face, otherwise he would have destroyed the platform fighting on it.

But jumping from the platform leaves Ace unguarded, which is why you need another man there, in this case it was Sengoku. After Luffy punches Garp, notice how Sengoku doesn't rush immediately to attack Luffy, but instead waits for Luffy to come for him, therefore Sengoku doesn't leave Ace open.

That's why I said that the Pirates winning the war =/= the Pirates being stronger than the Marines because it doesn't. In an all out fight, where there is no execution taking place, and Garp and Sengoku are actively participating, I have no doubt in my mind that the Marines would definitely win. I believe that the Marines are stronger than any Yonkou crews + their allies.

Originally Posted by Slayerx

not sure how that matters... if WB did disregard his allies and make full use of his powers he would have hurt his allies; he gains as much as he looses. What he gains from fully using his powers he looses by eliminating his own forces.

Not true at all.

For example let's look at Akainu vs WB. Akainu is caught off-guard when Whitebeard quakes him in the head. WB could have easily used that island splitting punch on Akainu immediately, but he didn't. Why? Because many of his allies would have died, hence why after seeing WB's rage, they all ran away, it was a warning shot. Because of Whitebeard's kindness and love for his sons, he ended up losing half of his face, which obviously makes the attack a lot weaker and pushes him a lot closer to death. If Whitebeard were to attack Akainu with his face intact, he probably could have incapacitated the Admiral for the remainder of the war, and even might have been able to defeat the Blackbeard Pirates. The point is, everything that WB would have gained if he was a heartless jerk >>>>>>> a bunch of no named random pirate fodder losing their lives.

Originally Posted by Slayerx

I rather disagree... Sengoku seemed to have the better planning on his side.
Whitebeard had no counter for the Kuma's except to ignore them and charge forward.

Counter? You act like those things needed a counter to begin with. All those things were capable of achieving was taking out pirate fodder, once in the plaza, we saw how New World Captains were destroying them. It's pretty obvious that the Pacifsta aren't really much of a threat to the Commanders and the NW Captains.

Originally Posted by Slayerx

He also had no counter for the walls; he just ended up getting lucky that oars left them an opening... .

While I won't deny this, you also cannot deny that this was due to a home court advantage in the sense that the Marines simply took advantage of a defense that's been built for god knows how long. There's always a disadvantage for someone attacking an enemy castle. Just like the Marines would be at a disadvantage invading the Yonkou in the New World.

Originally Posted by Slayerx

He also had no plan for getting to Ace and freeing him;

Umm what? Every strategic move he made was to achieve the ultimate goal, aka freeing Ace.

Originally Posted by Slayerx

that ended up coming from the hands of outsiders that he did not planned on having.

So what exactly?

Originally Posted by Slayerx

Whitebeard came up with a few good moves but for the most part his strategy was charge forward. Hell even his plan to use coated ships didn't really amount to too much when you consider that sengoku had those walls and was ready for Whitebeard's to get that close in the first place...

It amounted to them not having to fight 50+ battleships.

Originally Posted by Slayerx

Frankly i think it was rather foolish for WB to not try and send in forces from behind where marineford's defenses were weakest.

Didn't you see the diagram of Marineford during the war? There was no weak point because every inch was covered with battleships, in fact if you look at the map clearly, Whitebeard attacked at the best place to attack.

[paradox13]

-Suigetsu-, are you trolling?

:-S

[LeoThugs]

Edwar D. Newgate ...... FTW please. I'm going to honor Whitebeard like this from now on.

[yakumo-chan]

I wonder why whitebeard dont make his own real family?? instead of making sons he never met before???

his dream is to have a family right??

why not find girl and marry her?? and make love together and have a real sons and daughters??

[Kuroi Hadou]

Originally Posted by yakumo-chan

I wonder why whitebeard dont make his own real family?? instead of making sons he never met before???

his dream is to have a family right??

why not find girl and marry her?? and make love together and have a real sons and daughters??

Have you seen how huge he is? He'd probably kill her just doing the deed.

[Shiryuu]

Originally Posted by Kuroi Hadou

Have you seen how huge he is? He'd probably kill her just doing the deed.

Not like giant women don't exist in one piece.

He's obviously gay. He has no women in his crew to begin with. Or maybe he was trying to pleasure himself and accidentally earthquaked his nads.

[Shiroth]

Originally Posted by yakumo-chan

I wonder why whitebeard dont make his own real family?? instead of making sons he never met before???

his dream is to have a family right??

why not find girl and marry her?? and make love together and have a real sons and daughters??

Because he already has a family. I don't see what's not real about it when the feelings are strong enough.

[Pwnago]

Well if he did have a wife and a family, what will he do? Quit being a pirate? Hmm... I dont think so. I really think that he would be chased around by Marines, or he can bring his "real" family with him and put in danger. That's probably why lol, either way he'll still put his family in danger.

[ntherblast]

Originally Posted by yakumo-chan

I wonder why whitebeard dont make his own real family?? instead of making sons he never met before???

his dream is to have a family right??

why not find girl and marry her?? and make love together and have a real sons and daughters??

Probably the marines would make sure to hunt down bloodline family more than having 100s of non bloodline family.

[yakumo-chan]

Originally Posted by Pwnago

Well if he did have a wife and a family, what will he do? Quit being a pirate? Hmm... I dont think so. I really think that he would be chased around by Marines, or he can bring his "real" family with him and put in danger. That's probably why lol, either way he'll still put his family in danger.

Originally Posted by ntherblast

Probably the marines would make sure to hunt down bloodline family more than having 100s of non bloodline family.

this two comments makes sense

"being a pirate is hard to have a family" since the marines will be hunting down his bloodline and he doesnt want that to happen.

But what can you say about Gol D. Roger's Family?

[Slayerx]

I think its also possible that Whitebeard did not want to give the impression he was playing favorites... he came to love his crew members like his own sons, and having a REAL family might have spoiled it since his crew would think he valued his real family more... kinda like how Squado was made to feel about the idea of Whitebeard selling out the new world captains for Ace. think of an adopted child in a family that has a blood related child; despite what the parents might say the adopted child might constantly think that the parents love their "real" child more

Originally Posted by -Suigetsu-

No because as we saw when Sengoku was alone, they managed to free Ace.

Well that's in part because of plot convenience... honestly he just stood there and did nothing when he should have been kicking Luffy's ass... but instead he waited till the last second to actually do anything and thus acted too late

Counter? You act like those things needed a counter to begin with. All those things were capable of achieving was taking out pirate fodder, once in the plaza, we saw how New World Captains were destroying them. It's pretty obvious that the Pacifsta aren't really much of a threat to the Commanders and the NW Captains.

I think the kuma's still did a great number on the pirates side

Umm what? Every strategic move he made was to achieve the ultimate goal, aka freeing Ace.
So what exactly?

- getting up to the platform; that was provided by edward scissorhands and getting by garp which was provided by Luffy...
- And actually freeing Ace from his cuffs; that was provided by Mr.3

Didn't you see the diagram of Marineford during the war? There was no weak point because every inch was covered with battleships, in fact if you look at the map clearly, Whitebeard attacked at the best place to attack.

Did you?

Spoiler:

There's a nice big spot in the back ripe for attack... i mean that's basically where blackbeard likely came from

[SilverSyko]

And thus the Marineford arc comes to an end, and we're being led into the post-war arc.

Events have been set in motion and the world's about to undergo quite a change.

Anime-only viewers, look forward to it.~

[Blackbeard D. Kuma]

Nothing more needs to be said about this week's episode. The war has concluded.

Here's the preview for the next episode: http://www.fujitv.co.jp/GPplayer/e/G...piece&type=flv