(L+CR) Mushishi: The Next Chapter

[Guardian Enzo]

I think Kaoru did listen to Ginko, and took his advice. The final time he made that decision quite willingly, knowing the cost - you might theorize that the Kairou manipulated events to force him to do so, but Kaoru knew exactly what he was doing. He made a decision that it was worth the cost.

[Cloudedmind]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

I think Kaoru did listen to Ginko, and took his advice. The final time he made that decision quite willingly, knowing the cost - you might theorize that the Kairou manipulated events to force him to do so, but Kaoru knew exactly what he was doing. He made a decision that it was worth the cost.

And really, what exactly is it costing him. Other then some strong moments of deja vu it doesn't seem to be having any real ill effects on him. Having to relive most of your life over and over again doesn't seem like the worst thing that can happen to a person especially considering his life doesn't seem all that bad.

[Flower]

Ep 02 of s2 pt2

Whoa...that was positively...unsettling and chilling, no other words for it. And for me it was the choice of bgm that made it especially effective.

For me this is a dimly painful tragic story. Very...sad. No other word for it.

Essentially now Kaoru potentially doomed both he AND his wife will wind up being devoured/absorbed by the mushi. What will happen to their child in the midst of all that? So, so sad....

But such a thought provoking and powerful episode! Wow.... Just plain brilliant.

[Kanon]

I've always loved time loop stories, and this episode was a brilliant take on them. I pretty much knew how it was going to end from the get go, but this didn't make it any less fascinating to watch. On top of being a time loop story, this was also a powerful story of love. The ending of the episode isn't as bad as it might seem, they'll be able to spend eternity together now. Although, that depends on what exactly Ginko meant when he said Kaoru would become one with the Kairou. Will he cease to exist at some point?

[Sol Falling]

I was gonna call this episode a masterpiece just on the basis of everything before that final twist. The moment that other boy who Kaoru transgressed against flashed upon the screen, the terrifying allure of being able to revisit the past struck me, and I was shaken by my own weakness, the thought that I'd never be able to leave that place. Kaoru's ability to turn his back on that, and accept his own mistakes, including the stark uncertainty of the life which now stood before him was a bit of a revelation. Suffice it to say that it felt very good.

The tragedy of what befell Kaoru/Iku afterwards actually struck me as a bit ridiculous, and I was a bit angry at the transparency of the proceeding outcome, as if the humanity of the characters was simply manipulated or discarded in order to fulfill some trite narrative 'inevitability'. Yeah, the decision at the end was totally human. It was also fuckin' stupid.

An interpretation which hadn't occurred to me came up in the Crunchyroll comments, which placed a clearer emphasis on Ginko's warning that Kaoru'd "become one with the Kairou". Basically Kaoru's action was one of sacrifice, because he was trading his existence for Iku's life. It allowed me to release my frustration at the self-centered aspect of Kaoru's decision (i.e. "I can't bear the thought of losing Iku") and made it purely an altruistic one, about letting her at least live on, even with a warped existence. If you're asking what was the cost to Kaoru, that's what it was right there. (Ginko stated that there has never been a case of a person with deja vu actually managing to deter their past. It makes sense that a person trapped in a Kairou can't be allowed to realize they're actually reliving their life on a causal level (otherwise they'd choose to act differently once they got back). If a person with conscious awareness of what a Kairou is re-enters its body, of course they'd cease to be a conscious being, becoming part of the Kairou itself.)

The problem is this. The way that Iku has now ended up going through the Kairou, she's done it while unconscious and not by her own will. In other words, it is now not even possible for Iku to escape the Kairou. If Kaoru had thought about it logically, he should have realized his actions would trap her forever. This is pretty much the darkest end of any Mushishi episode we've seen so far, and unlike the rest of any of those episodes, this time I'm not even sure if there was a point.

[Jarmel]

Originally Posted by Cloudedmind

And really, what exactly is it costing him. Other then some strong moments of deja vu it doesn't seem to be having any real ill effects on him. Having to relive most of your life over and over again doesn't seem like the worst thing that can happen to a person especially considering his life doesn't seem all that bad.

The daughter is now left alone without parents.

[Dop]

Originally Posted by Jarmel

The daughter is now left alone without parents.

So? That's true for most everyone. Unless they die young, everyone has a time at which their parents die. The daughter marries, probably has children of her own, and life goes on.

The time loop only exists for those who have been through the Kairou. For everyone else, life goes as usual. Only Kaoru is repeating his life over and over again. Ginko has only met him the once. Their daughter has only been born the once. Until Kaoru takes her through the Kairou, Iku has only met him the once. After that, it's possible that he had only met her the once.

After that, it's entirely possible that they both live to a ripe old age and a perfectly natural and peaceful death. It is possible to see this as a happy ending for all concerned.

Originally Posted by Sol Falling

If Kaoru had thought about it logically

Maybe, but then again the woman he'd loved from first sight was dying, and this was a chance to change her fate. It's not a time for cold logic.

[Cloudedmind]

Originally Posted by Dop

So? That's true for most everyone. Unless they die young, everyone has a time at which their parents die. The daughter marries, probably has children of her own, and life goes on.

The time loop only exists for those who have been through the Kairou. For everyone else, life goes as usual. Only Kaoru is repeating his life over and over again. Ginko has only met him the once. Their daughter has only been born the once. Until Kaoru takes her through the Kairou, Iku has only met him the once. After that, it's possible that he had only met her the once.

After that, it's entirely possible that they both live to a ripe old age and a perfectly natural and peaceful death. It is possible to see this as a happy ending for all concerned.


Maybe, but then again the woman he'd loved from first sight was dying, and this was a chance to change her fate. It's not a time for cold logic.

Yeah, I also don't see this as some type of tragedy. The wife gets hurt but he's able to "save" her in a manner of speaking.

The daughter is a married adult who I'm pretty sure can take care of herself.

[ChainLegacy]

Originally Posted by Sol Falling

The problem is this. The way that Iku has now ended up going through the Kairou, she's done it while unconscious and not by her own will. In other words, it is now not even possible for Iku to escape the Kairou. If Kaoru had thought about it logically, he should have realized his actions would trap her forever. This is pretty much the darkest end of any Mushishi episode we've seen so far, and unlike the rest of any of those episodes, this time I'm not even sure if there was a point.

That's a good point - an obvious one, but one that's easily overlooked, given the range of emotions this ending invokes. I think if Kaoru himself were about to die, he would have allowed the cycle to end, but his beloved wife dying was too much for him to accept, especially so soon after an infinite loop of time spent with her.

Living the same life over and over, with some fleeting awareness that it's happening, but not enough to really understand, does sound kind of torturous to me - it brings strong feelings of the plight of Sisyphus, actually... but then one must think - the end of the loop would be an equally eternal ending of death... Not sure which is preferable.

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by ChainLegacy

Living the same life over and over, with some fleeting awareness that it's happening, but not enough to really understand, does sound kind of torturous to me - it brings strong feelings of the plight of Sisyphus, actually... but then one must think - the end of the loop would be an equally eternal ending of death... Not sure which is preferable.

It all depends on the kind of life you had. Kaoru lived a very happy life with his wife and his daughter, his only regret being driving that kid out of his house when he was younger. Eternally reliving this life doesn't sound bad at all, especially if you only vaguely realize it. It's very much akin to living in a dream.

Only if he had been fully aware of the loops and his inability to change the past would this have been torture. That's thankfully not the case.

I really can't see this as a bad ending. It seems like a very romantic one in fact.

[Dawnstorm]

Originally Posted by Sol Falling

The problem is this. The way that Iku has now ended up going through the Kairou, she's done it while unconscious and not by her own will. In other words, it is now not even possible for Iku to escape the Kairou. If Kaoru had thought about it logically, he should have realized his actions would trap her forever. This is pretty much the darkest end of any Mushishi episode we've seen so far, and unlike the rest of any of those episodes, this time I'm not even sure if there was a point.

It's not quite that simple, though. If Kaoru succumbs to the Kairou before that day, then he'll just vanish one day, and they can't have that future. We've seen him tell Ginko, and with seen him not tell Ginko. And if he doesn't tell, then there's a good chance he'll succumb.

The flip side is that Iku succumbing means she doesn't have to have that accident. And if Kaoru succumbs after losing Iku like that, there's the question what the loop will do, since in the last iteration Kaoru's future was different (through Iku's choice).

Now imagine the scene after Kaoru has resisted the Kairou and came home to Iku, telling her that from now on every day will be new. The more loops Iku lives through, the more likely it is that she will understand his meaning on an intuitive level. (Or what if both of them talk to Ginko about this on that day?) Basically, there's a chance that they'll realise that they share an experience.

The point of it all? There's a hunch I have here: I'm thinking of the typical Japanese romance plot line, where lovers have to part, but always think of each other. I think that this is an illustration of bonds, of strong social ties. I think what the Kairou does, here, is keeping them together, but eroding the ties through some strange and unconscious inflation of meaning. You could already see this in the scene they met. It sounded a lot more rote, this time; less energy in her "arigatou", for example.

Finally, I'd like to point out that when they met, Iku was trying to smell the blossoms; the very smell the Kairou uses to lure his prey. I'm not sure what to make of it, but I can't think of it as a coincidence. I sort of think it's symbolic: the smell of the blossoms is involved in how they met, but the Kairou has "overwritten" it. Something like that, maybe. (Just thinking.)

***

Totally unrelated to this specific episode: I never really feel motivated to watch Mushishi. By that I mean: it has no emotional priority. I'm not looking forward to the episodes, and I eventually make myself watch them. And when I do, I'm completely immersed in the episode, and I love every single second of the experience. Mushishi isn't the only series like that, but it's the one with the biggest descrepancy between motivation to click start and enjoyment. I have a backlog of shows I'm positive I'll enjoy lots once I start (Kino no Tabi, the rest of Hyougemono...). Anyone have experiences with that? I think this somehow tied into growing older, but I'm not sure.

[Haak]

Originally Posted by Dawnstorm

Totally unrelated to this specific episode: I never really feel motivated to watch Mushishi. By that I mean: it has no emotional priority. I'm not looking forward to the episodes, and I eventually make myself watch them. And when I do, I'm completely immersed in the episode, and I love every single second of the experience. Mushishi isn't the only series like that, but it's the one with the biggest descrepancy between motivation to click start and enjoyment. I have a backlog of shows I'm positive I'll enjoy lots once I start (Kino no Tabi, the rest of Hyougemono...). Anyone have experiences with that? I think this somehow tied into growing older, but I'm not sure.

It's the same for me. For whatever reason I always keep leaving Mushishi and Psycho-Pass sitting on my watch pile even though I love them both. I don't exactly know why though. They don't "excite" me as much as other shows but I can't say why.

[ChainLegacy]

Originally Posted by Kanon

It all depends on the kind of life you had. Kaoru lived a very happy life with his wife and his daughter, his only regret being driving that kid out of his house when he was younger. Eternally reliving this life doesn't sound bad at all, especially if you only vaguely realize it. It's very much akin to living in a dream.

Only if he had been fully aware of the loops and his inability to change the past would this have been torture. That's thankfully not the case.

I really can't see this as a bad ending. It seems like a very romantic one in fact.

The fact that he can't remember was key, though it seemed the more he looped he was more and more disconcerted by his deja vu. I guess the degree to which he remembers is what matters most.

Originally Posted by Dawnstorm

***

Totally unrelated to this specific episode: I never really feel motivated to watch Mushishi. By that I mean: it has no emotional priority. I'm not looking forward to the episodes, and I eventually make myself watch them. And when I do, I'm completely immersed in the episode, and I love every single second of the experience. Mushishi isn't the only series like that, but it's the one with the biggest descrepancy between motivation to click start and enjoyment. I have a backlog of shows I'm positive I'll enjoy lots once I start (Kino no Tabi, the rest of Hyougemono...). Anyone have experiences with that? I think this somehow tied into growing older, but I'm not sure.

It's funny you mention that because I remember thinking on Saturday how even though Mushishi was likely to be the best episode of the day (other shows I was watching were Fate/stay Night and Diamond no Ace), I was fine with waiting until Sunday to actually watch it.

Two reasons, I think: one is that it's episodic, so no edge-of-your-seat cliffhangers or desire to see what happens next in an overarching plot.

The other is that, despite being relaxing and meditative, Mushishi requires some degree of mental muscle to truly appreciate. I feel like I have to be a little prepared before jumping into an episode.

[Amarantine]

Another great episode, and I don't see the ending as a tragic one either. Iku clearly feels the same nagging sense of déjà vu when she catches the scent of flowers that Kaoru did, so there's very much a chance that she will tell Ginko about it and that Ginko will therefore inform her (or them) of the Kairou and the fact that it manifests as a cavernous tube which they ought to avoid. The question is what they'll do with that knowledge and how that loop will turn out.

Honestly, I don't think there's been any tragic episode ending in Zoku Shou yet. They've all been bittersweet at worst for me. And even in the first season I can't think of many that would qualify as such either, except maybe Pillow Pathway and One Night Bridge.

Originally Posted by Dawnstorm

Totally unrelated to this specific episode: I never really feel motivated to watch Mushishi. By that I mean: it has no emotional priority. I'm not looking forward to the episodes, and I eventually make myself watch them. And when I do, I'm completely immersed in the episode, and I love every single second of the experience. Mushishi isn't the only series like that, but it's the one with the biggest descrepancy between motivation to click start and enjoyment. I have a backlog of shows I'm positive I'll enjoy lots once I start (Kino no Tabi, the rest of Hyougemono...). Anyone have experiences with that?

Not exactly the same for me since I definitely feel motivated to watch it, only there's no sense of urgency on my part to do so. Unlike other series where there's an overarching storyline which makes it so the next episode will pick up where the previous one left off, each episode of Mushishi is a new story, a fresh start. So I'm never in a rush to watch it like I sometimes am with other series that have cliffhangers and/or build up momentum as the episodes go. I guess you could say this is the difference between all series with an overarching storyline and episodic ones, but Mushishi is still a special case for me since I always wait until I feel I'm in the perfect mood to watch it. It's always a special experience so I go out of my way to make sure that I dive into it at the best time possible.

[psycho bolt]

Is it me or the recent Mushishi episodes seems like there's more of the supernatural and less about Mushi. At least so far most of the episodes have a focus on humans entering supernatural realms. Its sort of becoming more Twilight Zone than Mushishi.

[Stark700]

Another beautiful episode. This one had more emotional impact to it and I think it got the message across pretty well.

[Platypus]

I'm filled with heartrending sorrow

[Pen3]

Wow Akane is such a good girl. After all these years and she still didn't blame anyone for her disappearance. Even after getting opportunities to return, she still refuses to put other people in her situation.

[Freeter]

Did Artland lose the rights to 'Shiver'? I miss that opening.

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by Freeter

Did Artland lose the rights to 'Shiver'? I miss that opening.

Same here. I love Shiver. It feels like something is missing when a Mushishi episode starts without it.