Pokemon Black and White

[videoman190]

Grass one looks pretty good actually. Fire pig is pretty cute. The water one is just lame though.

I knew it every Pokemon fan site said that same thing "I don't like that otter"

[leodamine]

guess I'mma have to pick water, since I like to pick the least used, and I also kinda like the snowman face. I think he's gonna be water ice type when he's in his final form.

[justsomeguy]

If it gains ice type, then I'll definitely choose another starter. Ice contributes nothing but weaknesses to water types.

[GDB]

Originally Posted by justsomeguy

If it gains ice type, then I'll definitely choose another starter. Ice contributes nothing but weaknesses to water types.

Except for straight-up play-throughs. Then, at least, you get STAB on one of the attacks you'd be using anyway.

But if they follow standard protocol, the obvious choice to take would be the fire starter. Why? Because they never put any other freaking fire pokemon in the game that aren't either ass, legendary, or ass until you evolve them via stone at which point they no longer learn new moves.

[serenade_beta]

Originally Posted by GDB

But if they follow standard protocol, the obvious choice to take would be the fire starter. Why? Because they never put any other freaking fire pokemon in the game that aren't either ass, legendary, or ass until you evolve them via stone at which point they no longer learn new moves.

Assuming "ass" refers to being weak, I would have to disagree. Focus Sash Houndoom and Magmortar, for instance, are quite strong. On the other hand, Flareon, which evolves from a stone, is............ Well, come back when you learn a decent physical fire move.

[RisArk]

Um, I think you're fogetting Infernape, one of the best pokemon in general?

[Sety]

He already included starters and its true.

Fire type choice is horrendously bad past few gens, if you don't choose the fire starter your choices always end up legendary (Moltres/Entei/Heatran), ungodly awful (Magcargo/Torkoal/Camerupt), useless without breeding (Ninetales/Arcanine/Flareon) or plain uncatchable till post game and/or trading (Houndoom/Magmortar).

This is especially bad in 4th gen, in all 4th gen games cept Platinum our only choice for a fire type besides starter was Ponyta. Magmar had a near non-existant catch rate in HG/SS even if he was available early.

[serenade_beta]

Originally Posted by Sety

He already included starters and its true.

Fire type choice is horrendously bad past few gens, if you don't choose the fire starter your choices always end up legendary (Moltres/Entei/Heatran), ungodly awful (Magcargo/Torkoal/Camerupt), useless without breeding (Ninetales/Arcanine/Flareon) or plain uncatchable till post game and/or trading (Houndoom/Magmortar)

Magcargo can't be saved, yes (except to be used to hatch eggs), but Torkoal and Camerupt can be quite useful. Camerupt has Hard Rock (not like it matters against water though) and Torkoal can do very good as a wall, with Amnesia for his Sp.Def and Lava Plume to lower the opponent's Atk. with burn. Plus, both learn Explosion.

Arcanine doesn't really need breeding to be useful either, though you might need to use TMs. The only time you would need a move bred on him is if you plan on making a Morning Sun-Will o Wisp moveset or something.

[Sety]

Half the problem though its Torkoal who is the one who needs Hard Rock, seriously hes a fire type wall with no recovery. That always turns out bad, they could've made him sturdier. Camerupt is slow as well...a rock and hits hard, but solid rock is pretty useless when your defenses are little to show for and your one 4x weak is the most common element in the game.

If we're talking in game though Torkoal is probably the more useful of the two as hes less likely to go down in a heap and learns flamethrower very early I recall. In proper battles though Camerupt dies even quicker and Torkoal just can't threaten nor wall terribly well.

On the Arcanine thing in game yeah if you're willing to use TM's hes all good but if you don't you'll need to wait till lv28 before evolving to get a worthwhile move. Problem is you miss out on Flare Blitz so you either end up having to use TM's, breed a good move, use Growlithe for almost the whole game or having to use a gimped Arcanine. For proper battles though Arcanine is spectacular ever since the addition of Morning Sun and Flare Blitz.

Still it says something when the most useful normally catchable fire type is one from the first gen.

[Who]

Online battles, everyone and their mother and their unborn fetuses seem to stick the middle finger up at fire types with stealth rock. Oh Charizard. How I cry for you.

[kco143]

I've decided that the only way I'm going to play a pokemon game again is if you don't have to input friend codes in order to battle someone on wi-fi. I would just like to walk into the wi-fi plaza and enter a battle with some random person I don't know. However, I suppose they will never add that feature because most people who play Pokemon are young and vulnerable. =( Perverts could do nasty things with the mic.

[leodamine]

Why doesn't nintendo just take off the mic feature for online battles? As in, the mic can only be used if you have the person's friend code.

[serenade_beta]

Originally Posted by kco143

I've decided that the only way I'm going to play a pokemon game again is if you don't have to input friend codes in order to battle someone on wi-fi. I would just like to walk into the wi-fi plaza and enter a battle with some random person I don't know. However, I suppose they will never add that feature because most people who play Pokemon are young and vulnerable. =( Perverts could do nasty things with the mic.

*points to Battle Revolution*

Originally Posted by Who

Online battles, everyone and their mother and their unborn fetuses seem to stick the middle finger up at fire types with stealth rock. Oh Charizard. How I cry for you.

Claydol: Fuu... Time to Rapid Spin...
Of course, on a 3-3 battle, it's hard to make space for Rapid Spin... I do dislike Stealth Rock though. They already had Spikes, but thanks to this, the existance of Spikes is... (-_-)

Originally Posted by Sety

Half the problem though its Torkoal who is the one who needs Hard Rock, seriously hes a fire type wall with no recovery.

Camerupt is slow as well...a rock and hits hard, but solid rock is pretty useless when your defenses are little to show for and your one 4x weak is the most common element in the game.

But Torkoal's White Smoke isn't a bad thing either.
Also, if you need recovery, there is always Rest-->Chesto, which also prevents Toxic from getting to you.

Camerupt... Yeah. But he does a decent job with Custap or Trick Room.

[Sety]

Actually RestTalk is probably better for Torkoal if you wanna go down the recovery route so he can continue to run Leftovers, more like Lava Plume/Rest/Sleep Talk/Rapid Spin. Otherwise I'd just go with something like Stealth Rock/Explosion/Rapid Spin/Overheat or Will O Wisp over Rapid Spin if you have something else to do it.

Trick Room is nice and all but its really gimmicky, its not like Gravity where it instant paysoff. Trick Room is hard to set up/keep up and usually you only really have 3 turns after to abuse it. But with priority moves flying about the place now it seems pointless.

On the other hand Camerupt does great with Substitute I've found, sometimes its just easier to force a switch and hide behind a Sub. Custap berry isnt a bad option if you're running Explosion but still sorta situational.

[-Sho-]

Pokemon on a TV show :

People will move (well they do the same thing)

And The Boy = "Kakoiii" , The Girl = "Kawaiii" ^^

[GDB]

Originally Posted by serenade_beta

Claydol: Fuu... Time to Rapid Spin...
Of course, on a 3-3 battle, it's hard to make space for Rapid Spin... I do dislike Stealth Rock though. They already had Spikes, but thanks to this, the existance of Spikes is... (-_-)

Try sending a rapid spinner into battle in a 6v6. You're pretty much guaranteed to see the opponent switch to Dusknoir or Rotom-A instantly.

Originally Posted by Sety

Trick Room is nice and all but its really gimmicky, its not like Gravity where it instant paysoff. Trick Room is hard to set up/keep up and usually you only really have 3 turns after to abuse it. But with priority moves flying about the place now it seems pointless.

I've never actually seem a practical application for Gravity. Trick Room, at least, is amazing in doubles.

[Sety]

Try sending a rapid spinner into battle in a 6v6. You're pretty much guaranteed to see the opponent switch to Dusknoir or Rotom-A instantly.

Dunno bout Dusknoir, ever since the Rotom forms showed up Dusknoir has sorta been flung to the sidelines much like Spiritomb. Doesn't help either Gengar is still as commonly used as ever giving more competition and theres alot of stuff in OU Dusknoir has trouble threatening.

I've never actually seem a practical application for Gravity. Trick Room, at least, is amazing in doubles.

Yeah Trick Room is pretty much a common move when it comes to doubles, if not almost a standard strategy.

Gravity has pretty much two uses, setting up a Earthquake sweep or the more significant one of lowering everythings evade. With Gravity even moves like DyanamicPunch get a 85% hit rate, Sing with 95% and moves like Blizzard/Thunder/Fire Blast/Hydro Pump/Focus Blast/Will O Wisp/Sleep Powder get 100% hit.

Also when you look at who can learn Gravity you get a list of stuff which can abuse it very well. Clefable and Blissey with status immunity and movepool out the ass, Starmie who can do a enhanced version of boltbeam. Dusknoir, Cresselia, Regi's, Bronzong, Jirachi, Metagross and Forretress all have the defenses to set it up successfully.

[serenade_beta]

Originally Posted by Sety

Actually RestTalk is probably better for Torkoal if you wanna go down the recovery route so he can continue to run Leftovers, more like Lava Plume/Rest/Sleep Talk/Rapid Spin. Otherwise I'd just go with something like Stealth Rock/Explosion/Rapid Spin/Overheat or Will O Wisp over Rapid Spin if you have something else to do it.

Trick Room is nice and all but its really gimmicky, its not like Gravity where it instant paysoff. Trick Room is hard to set up/keep up and usually you only really have 3 turns after to abuse it. But with priority moves flying about the place now it seems pointless.

Hmm... I only usually go 3-3 on Battle Revolution, so I don't put Rapid Spin.
I have Amnesia/Rest/Earthquake/Lava Plume.
I was quite amused when my Torkoal's ATK and Sp.ATK turned out to be exactly the same.

Originally Posted by GDB

Try sending a rapid spinner into battle in a 6v6. You're pretty much guaranteed to see the opponent switch to Dusknoir or Rotom-A instantly.

Well, then you just have to make sure that doesn't happen. Trick them somehow. A good number of Pokemon can learn Rapid Spin, after all. Sandslash and Kabutops can learn Night Slash, for instance. They might not even have a Ghost with them.

Originally Posted by GDB

I've never actually seem a practical application for Gravity.

Go to NicoDouga, search Gravity. You'll find some people using Gravity, in Singles too! And Doubles.

Originally Posted by Sety

Dunno bout Dusknoir, ever since the Rotom forms showed up Dusknoir has sorta been flung to the sidelines much like Spiritomb. Doesn't help either Gengar is still as commonly used as ever giving more competition and theres alot of stuff in OU Dusknoir has trouble threatening.

Well, you can compare Dusknoir and Spiritomb, but you can't really compare Rotom and Gengar though. Their movesets and stats are quite different. Dusknoir has good ATK, unlike the rest, and can do well with Choice Band+Shadow Sneak, etc. Also, 135 Base Stat for both defenses is good.
He also learns a large variety of moves, which is nice. I've made 7 Dusknoirs.

Originally Posted by Sety

Yeah Trick Room is pretty much a common move when it comes to doubles, if not almost a standard strategy.

In Singles, Trick Room is still quite useful. It does take set up, but it pays off if you do it right. Besides, you say 3 turns, but on the 2nd turn, you can use Explosion for major damage or Curse to cast a 1/4 damage each turn on your opponent, so the 2nd turn isn't usually wasted.

[Who]

To add on... Gravity's like the next best thing for Dynamicpunch aside from No Guts Machamp. Not to mention flying types can't lol at Ground types anymore.

[GDB]

Originally Posted by Sety

Dunno bout Dusknoir, ever since the Rotom forms showed up Dusknoir has sorta been flung to the sidelines much like Spiritomb. Doesn't help either Gengar is still as commonly used as ever giving more competition and theres alot of stuff in OU Dusknoir has trouble threatening.

Of course, Rotom-A is the go-to Ghost at the moment for spin blocking. But it's still insanely hard for any current spinners to threaten Dusknoir, so even if he can't threaten much they can't do anything to him either.

Originally Posted by serenade_beta

Well, then you just have to make sure that doesn't happen. Trick them somehow. A good number of Pokemon can learn Rapid Spin, after all. Sandslash and Kabutops can learn Night Slash, for instance. They might not even have a Ghost with them.

A good number of Pokemon, sure. A number of good Pokemon, definitely not. Kabutops, while relatively strong, is frail and not that fast. Sandslash is a horrible Pokemon. Your only real choices are Kabutops (frail, weak to Rotom), Blastoise (sturdy, but not too strong, weak to Rotom), and Starmie (frail, super weak to Rotom).

Go to NicoDouga, search Gravity. You'll find some people using Gravity, in Singles too! And Doubles.

Using and using effectively/efficiently are different.

Either way, B&W better have more Fire Pokemon. Or a way so Charizard isn't neutered by Stealth Rock so I can go back to using him.