2010-11-08, 17:58 | Link #281 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: East Cupcake
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Not really, no. That's just the way these stories are told. Every Shounen series eventually reaches the point where the fights seem almost unbelievable. It's whether the fights are still enjoyable that really matter, not whether they are believable or not...
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Personally, I think you are confusing a lack of an explanation with contradiction once again... |
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2010-11-08, 18:11 | Link #282 | |
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Age: 34
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You're over looking control. Different characters have different levels of control, so what is very taxing for one person is not neccessarily taxing for another. What happens when a ninja tries to use a Jutsu when they don't have the energy for it is actually addressed pretty early on, when Sasuke first used the chidori. Go past you're limits, and the most likely outcome is your death. If you're lucky, the Jutsu will still work though. So far, I've only seen this situation pop up three or four times. Sasuke vs Gaara: Cursed Seal prevented him from dying Naruto: Jinchuuriki, so has reserves. Kakashi vs Pain: He died there. From what I can tell, you're main complaint is Edo Tensei, right? Here is something you keep over looking. I know both me and Hunter have said this before, and possibly a few others too - Edo Tensei requires a human sacrifice! One life to bring back another (as a Zombie) Dude, This is Equivilent Exchange in action! Those last three pages alone indicates the death of over 20 people. How much chakra it takes to control and/or maintain the zombie? Dunno. But I imagine someone who claims to have mastered the technique to a greater degree than both Orochimaru and its very own creator has managed to migate the cost to the user. Most likely by a lot. The best bet here is to wait and see until we can get an actual read of how much it costs before you got into rant mode. Apart from Edo Tensei, there haven't really been any other S rank moves recently. Especially ones with no cost to the user. Nagato died. Rasenshuriken has a limit use of about two without a recharge(with the chakra beast known as Naruto I might add), Sasunoo has recently eaten Sasuke's ability to see, the Zetsu clones seem to have been a long term thing - with Bjuu batteries,
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2010-11-08, 18:15 | Link #283 | ||||
Banned
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Age: 35
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2010-11-08, 18:34 | Link #284 | |
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Age: 34
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Yeah, the Sasuke vs. Deidara end was a bit messed up. But one thing most people forget is that, from an inuniverse point of view, it was a planned escape. Karin was clearly told to do such and such to summon Manda, implying that Sasuke had done the neccessary preparations to use Manda at a split second to escape if needed. What good is an escape if it needs a tonne of chakra? No good. Therefore, most likely, Sasuke had made preparations to summon without high chakra consumption. Not a great argument, but it explains alot.
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2010-11-08, 19:23 | Link #285 | ||
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Besides, since the beginning of the series (way back during the Kakashi v. Zabuza fight), the characters have always pulled out large techniques at the drop of a hat, even if they are already exhausted. And what happens the majority of the time afterward? They collapse from exhaustion (Sasuke did it in this battle). Nothing was "broken" and nothing was "contradicted" (though I acknowledge how the fight borders on being unbelievable, I do not see how that in any way makes the event in question contradictory to the story being told (or the in universe power system (which also allows scrolls to be used to summon...which Suigetsu did after the fight, so why couldn't Sasuke do the same thing?)) or the characters being shown). "Lack of explanation" only matters if the author provides none later on. Right now, Edo Tensei annoys many people because there is no sufficient explanation as to how it is performed or how it truly works. But, you, and many others, confuse a current lack of explanation with an actual contradiction or, to use the buzz word, deus ex machina. Last edited by james0246; 2010-11-08 at 19:52. |
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2010-11-08, 19:27 | Link #286 |
O_O
Join Date: Oct 2006
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Just to comment on one thing regarding the end of Deidara fight, didn't Sasuke appear to be tired because of his chidori-on-himself move to save himself from the bombs? Nothing he did in that battle seemed to require lots of chakra, if I remember correctly - at least at that point in the story it wasn't a relevant amount. I understood that he chidori-d himself, and was physically beat up because of that - but his chakra level was ok.
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2010-11-08, 19:36 | Link #287 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
Age: 34
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true enough, but Deidara at least seemed to think Sasuke was exhuasted.
Most people take Deidara's word for it. Also, nothing he did(apart from snakey) seemed to use loads of chakra, but lots of mid-chakra techs will tire someone out too. And that is what Sasuke had done
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2010-11-08, 20:04 | Link #288 | |||
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Join Date: May 2003
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No I don't. I don't read Shounen for realism but for entertainment. A little consistency is required to hold a suspending of disbelief but since nothing particulary out of top happened when you compare it to the rest of the story, I dont have a problem with that.
Now you may dislike this turn of event and think that making zombies out of past characters is cheap, ridiculous and whatnot and I would understand that. But crying about it because it's supposed to break some rule you made up on your own? No. Quote:
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Or are you actually saying Naruto's characters have ever acted and fought like regular ninja? And if not then why are you acting all surprised about it 515 chapters later? Quote:
Ah yes and the Sasuke vs. Deidara fight because something so completely irrelevent to the current events that happened more than 150 chapters ago apparently still drive you mad. But really even this event didn't break any so called rule despite the fact it was indeed very badly presented. Last edited by Hunter; 2010-11-08 at 20:16. |
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2010-11-08, 23:02 | Link #289 |
seventh
Join Date: Dec 2006
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You guys are trying to make sense of Naruto fights?? Most Naruto fights have never made any sense at all.... Logic / common sense can't really be applied to them.
I'll summarize some battles.... Just an example of how much sense Naruto fights make : Taking it back as far as Naruto+Sasuke vs Haku. What kind of idiot would throw "thousands" of needles at his opponents' arms and legs instead of just throwing "one" to the Head and ending it all?? And during battle Haku states that his technique drains a lot of chakra.... so what does he do? He decides to sit in his ice mirror and chat while he wastes energy on his chakra-heavy technique. Genius. Haku vs Kyuubi Naruto.... Haku realizes he's in danger, so he throws about 20 needles into Naruto's back. The attack doesn't even affect Naruto. Why even bother throwing them in his back?? Then Haku decides to aim for Naruto's back "again".... but this time with 1 needle (because I guess 20 is less effective than 1....). Not to mention Haku randomly decides to leave his mirror completely for this single needle attack, allowing Naruto to dodge and grab his arm. Sasuke vs Deidara..... So Sasuke and Deidara look pretty tired at the end of their battle. Now... If Deidara has enough Chakra to make an explosion that is like 10 Kilometers in diameter, why not just make another Clay Dragon/Bird?? The bird could easily pick Deidara up (who can barely move at this moment) so he could continue the fight from the air. As tired as Deidara was, there's no excuse for not coming up with another option when he had that much energy left to make a 10 kilometer explosion. I like Naruto, but I gave up trying to actually make sense of the fights. |
2010-11-09, 00:18 | Link #290 | ||||||
Shougi Génération
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If you don't want to put a name on it, we can call it One Piece's power levels. And to me it was absurd that Crocodile would leave Luffy to die twice only for him to return for his rematch, or that Zoro somehow survived all of the damage/stress/tiredness that Luffy had taken on Moria's ship, on top of his own. Quote:
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Also, "got one panel of screen time" seems normal. He's a new character, he -just- got introduced amidst a bunch of other people. Quote:
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He hasn't contradicted anything because he hasn't given any details on the technique yet. You're just bigoted. |
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2010-11-09, 01:03 | Link #291 | ||||||
Banned
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All right, compromise time. As far as Edo Tensei is concerned, I still think it's stupid. I think the way Kishi is using it now is a cheap cop-out so he can recycle a bunch of old characters rather than create new ones. As for how it works, I don't know. So apparently, from what we can gather, you just have to sacrifice a human life and perform a ritual to somehow bring a dead person's soul into an artificial body. One thing that still bugs me about it though:
Where does the energy for this technique come from? Some have speculated that you use the chakra of the human sacrifice. If so, would that really be enough? Could the cumulative chakra from any fodder ninja really be enough to activate the ritual? If not do you make up the difference with your own chakra? Does it require chakra to keep the souls attached for long periods of time? But at any rate, the actual workings of the techniques don't bother me too much. After all, Orochimaru used it before and it didn't really bug me then (though he didn't use it in abundance and it was sort of a trump technique). It bugs me moreso from a story standpoint in that I think it was very out of left field and unnecessary, at least in the abundance that it was used. And yeah, it is still kinda hax. That being said... Quote:
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2010-11-09, 01:14 | Link #292 | ||
Shougi Génération
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At the end of the day, Naruto could never have won without everyone else's sacrifices. He may get all the credit for being the guy that put a fist to the guy's face, but it doesn't change the facts. Quote:
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2010-11-09, 01:33 | Link #293 | ||
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Oh, and did you miss those panels where all the other villagers were saying, "No, we should stay out of Naruto's way. We can't do anything to help," despite the fact they were perfectly capable of fighting? Quote:
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2010-11-09, 02:53 | Link #294 | |
Call me MK! :)
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Edit: And now you are troling.
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2010-11-09, 02:57 | Link #295 | |
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Magic.
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They weren't even doing anything while they were letting Naruto fight! EDIT: Let me just say that the Pain invasion was a perfect opportunity for the secondary characters to shine. Pain had six bodies, with varying strengths and weaknesses, which the side characters could have fought and gained a strategic advantage over by employing their own strengths. But no, instead Kishi created a huge power imbalance and the side characters ultimately did nothing. |
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2010-11-09, 02:59 | Link #296 | |
Shougi Génération
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2010-11-09, 03:04 | Link #297 | |
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2010-11-09, 03:11 | Link #298 | |
Shougi Génération
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As for that particular moment where Naruto got pinned down, a character did step in. Considering that sage mode was the necessary prerequisite for Naruto to surpass Jiraiya and to be able to defeat Pain, anyone else joining in the fray would have been luggage. I was one of several readers that wanted Shikamaru to join the fray, to me he was the only one with the will to get out there and fight but he had a broken leg. |
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2010-11-09, 03:35 | Link #299 | |||
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Yeah, that seems to be Kishi's attitude.
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Oh, and this brings up another point that Naruto had suddenly become totally adored by the entire village offscreen. So yeah, everything he ever hoped for just sorta happened...offscreen. Also, Pain destroying the village was random and unnecessary, especially since, Hey! We were able to rebuild it all overnight without any death or long-term ramifications! Quote:
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Last edited by james0246; 2010-11-09 at 14:39. Reason: inconsiderate response removed... |
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2010-11-09, 04:16 | Link #300 | |||
Shougi Génération
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Last edited by james0246; 2010-11-09 at 14:39. |
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