2013-04-26, 01:06 | Link #2441 |
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From what I recall, the CE series was hopefully going to be a new beginning for the Gundam metaseries, particularly now they they had to work with a wider audience and a new generation of fans.
However despite how things ended in SEED, there seemed to be a possibility to continue and improve on it. Then of course when we got SEED Destiny, it wrecked the few things that worked and really magnified the problems that SEED had. Then of course we had the problems behind the scenes which really makes on wonder if some sort of drug was going around there at the time. It's also not helped by the insanely brutal wars on the forums and websites when dealing with this series. It got so bad that one wishes that Rau had triumphed overall because he is pretty much right in his actions and that any action either done by the protagonists or the antagonist just shows really the evil of humanity, thereby justifying Rau's viewpoint. |
2013-04-26, 01:19 | Link #2442 | |
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But yeah, as we see with SEED Destiny, even though our protagonists "win" in the end of SEED, nothing has really changed. Tensions were still extremely high over the next two years and all it took to set things off again was a terrorist act by remnants of a loyal force to Patrick Zala that was completely separate from ZAFT's current leadership leading to the EA (while most likely ignoring ZAFT's attempts at explanation and showing of how they tried to stop the group themselves along with them immediately sending aid to affected spots on Earth) immediately trying to, once again, nuke the PLANTs (pretty much waiting for an excuse). Add on things like LOGOS being exposed to exist and Dullindal revealing trying to play a god with people's future and it pretty much proved Rau correct, if in a delayed fashion.
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2013-04-26, 21:48 | Link #2445 | |
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At least Lacus knew how they were going about things was hypocritical; telling others to stop fighting WHILE shooting at them themselves, virtually holding guns to the heads of both sides. ("We call for peace, but with weapons in our hands.") It also gets brought up by Athrun in SEED Destiny on how Kira and the Archangel's "interventions" earlier in the series does nothing but cause unneeded chaos and results in lives being needlessly lost in the confusion (and Heine ending up being a more personal loss as a result).
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2013-04-26, 21:54 | Link #2446 | |
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There is some naivety to Lacus, but I don't really think that she's too naïve, just enough not to be cynical about the world.
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2013-04-26, 23:17 | Link #2447 |
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I'm actually going by the theory that Kira's intervention's during the Orb/EA vs Minerva battles was because he was deliberately trying to get the Orb forces decimated so they could withdraw without losing face (which is what eventually happened). But rather than let Minerva blow everyone up with their cannon he tried to control the losses so most survived. Note how despite their being several minutes between Athrun being disabled and Shinn sinking the Orb carrier Kira doesn't seem to lift a finger to stop Shinn. I think he wanted the carrier destroyed so that Orb could say they tried their best and retreat. Which is what happens because EA salutes the sinking ship and lets the rest of the Orb fleet limp back to Orb.
He knew it was the only way to get Orb out of that fight without bringing EA down on them. |
2013-04-26, 23:41 | Link #2448 |
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Kira was simply too far away. The ship was already crippled by the Minerva and Todaka had already ordered the evacuation before Kira got there.
It could be Todaka's plan all along though. Everyone was surprised that the Takemikazuchi would dare to attack the Minerva directly. Interestingly enough, Kira disabled Rey in that scene. I never noticed that before. |
2013-04-27, 12:16 | Link #2449 |
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That was what Todoka was certainly aiming for yes. He even tells Yuna as much. He had his men fight their hardest and give up their lives for EA so they can't possibly say Orb didn't live up to the agreement.
But I think Kira knew that as well. It was the only way for Orb to get out of that fight without looking like betraying the EA. And while everyone else on team AA is shocked at the ship sinking, Kira doesn't seem remotely surprised or upset. |
2013-04-27, 15:49 | Link #2451 |
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Athrun wasn't implying that Orb's sacrifice was necessery. He was saying that Minerva was in the right and Orb was in the wrong, and Kira was angry that Athrun was considering Orb (and by extension Cagalli) his enemy. Personally I think he was just mad that Athrun was ditching them after Kira went through the trouble of kidnapping Cagalli from her wedding for Athrun's sake.
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2013-04-27, 16:08 | Link #2452 | |
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Of course this is both sides fault, Cagalli for not having backbone and standing her ground and Athrun mired in his own problems and leaving her right when she needed him the most. Of course Kira is also at fault as he withdrew from the world and did not back his sister up during the intervening two years. |
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2013-04-27, 16:15 | Link #2453 | |
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2013-04-27, 16:15 | Link #2454 | ||
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No, Athrun implied that when he stopped Kira from protecting Orb soldiers. Athrun knew Kira wasn't going to kill Shinn, but he delayed him anyway, thus allowing Shinn to kill more Orb soldiers. That's why Kira decided to just take Athrun out of the picture right then and there.
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By the way, why are you now even complaining that they're not preaching their ideals? It seemed like you've been against their ideals from the start. |
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2013-04-27, 17:26 | Link #2455 |
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It's also likely he protected Shinn from Kira because he was afraid Shinn might go the way of Heine (disabled, and killed by someone else), especially since Shinn was also fighting Auel who would have easily wiped Shinn out if he was helpless.
I don't think Kira was particularly adamant that no Orb soldiers get attacked when he himself was attacking them. And his own wingman Andy was making kill shots on them (because he didn't have the skill to disable them like Kira does). Likewise in the first battle he didn't stop Shinn and Heine from attacking Orb forces (he did however stop them when they tried to fire at him) The reason he tried to go after Shinn (and later disabled Athrun) in the 2nd battle was because Shinn was trying to attack CAGALLI. That he did not find acceptable, and the fact that Athrun was seemingly siding with the guy that tried to frag Cagalli was why he was getting so angry. And when Cagalli again tried to approach Shinn, and Athrun tried blocking him again, that's when Kira Seeded and chopped him up. Except a Murasame shielded her and had her back off, so Kira seemingly went back to disabling. And throughout all this, Kira doesn't seem surprised or upset that the Orb fleet is getting pounded, unlike Cagalli who's crying almost nonstop. So either he wasn't expecting their plan to work, or he wanted them to get wrecked (although maybe not to the extent that they were since he stopped Minerva from blasting them with the main gun, and he seemed surprised Shinn was so powerful). He could haven't wanted the Orb fleet to win. If he did he could have simply allowed the Murasame team to sink Minerva, instead of saving it. And he wouldn't have mostly fired on Orb and EA, while mostly ignoring Minerva's team unless they took shots at him or Cagalli. |
2013-04-27, 17:51 | Link #2456 | ||||
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2013-04-27, 18:17 | Link #2457 |
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That means that there's no rhyme or reason to his actions. He just went out and shot up everyone just because. And since there's no reason to do that that really can't be.
But if he really wanted Orb to get out unscathed he would have allowed them to sink the Minerva, not save it. And he wouldn't have spent most of the first sea battle ignoring Minerva's team in favor of attacking Orb and EA. |
2013-04-27, 18:34 | Link #2458 | |
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Also, Kira didn't ignore the Minerva's team. He attacked the Minerva itself, Shinn, Heine, and he would've attacked Athrun if Athrun had done anything. |
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2013-04-27, 18:38 | Link #2459 |
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He only fired on Shinn and Heine when they attacked him, and Minerva only to take out their cannon. He could have continued firing at Minerva took out Rey and Luna's Zaku's and then gone for Shinn, Athrun and Heine right away. Instead he starts shooting Orb and EA, and only attacks Zaft forces if they shoot at him first (ignoring the initial shot against Minerva)
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2013-04-27, 18:46 | Link #2460 | |
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Kira was firing at everyone who was attacking, whether it's at him or someone else.
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