AnimeSuki Forums

Kimidori · 2013-05-06, 06:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blizzard

Like, I'm so sorry OTL I'm studying computer engineering. I just like digging into fictional characters and the sound of my own voice I guess. And most of the time I do it while really sleep deprived and unable to tell which way is up so I'm surprised I'm making any sense at all.

there nothing to sorry about, I really love your post in this thread so far, you're amazing, I'm usually lazy and not read wall of text but for your post here, I read them word-by-word, keep it up!

studying pretty much the same thing at uni, I wish I could make a long post like you OTL.

Blizzard · 2013-05-06, 06:52

I'd say the candy scene was more telling on character development though. What with how much understanding and self awareness Yamato shows there. You kinda get to see how far he's come since meeting the protagonist (like finally growing a conscience) Takoyaki scene is more of a demonstration on how clueless he really is about the outside world and how actually eager to learn and open to new things. That and also showing how he values the protagonists opinions above his own judgement and teachings. I think I actually love all of his events since he's almost as bad as Alcor at How-Do-You-Human-101. Yeah, I know. It's a tragedy but it's still amusing to watch.

My stand is that someone should stick him into a daycare worker uniform and dump a bunch of children on him with Hibiki supervising for misconduct. It'd be the ultimate shock therapy on socialization. That or he'd organize them into a guerilla army to take over the playground but still a win is a win.

EDIT: omg finally short post \^o^/ and thanks Kimi <3 all I'm doing is ranting out feels though???

Shadow5YA · 2013-05-06, 06:57

I kind of wish they didn't reveal the Anguished One's name as Alcor so early in the anime. If people bother to look at where the Septentriones' names came from, it's a pretty big hint on what he truly is.

I also don't want to see him lose his Al Saiduq name, because that name along with his lack of human common sense is hilarious.

p-kun · 2013-05-06, 08:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blizzard

Here, I have no idea what the heck anime was thinking since they never bothered to explain the full extent of his plan or tactics. But Yamato does take care of his man and treats them reasonably (not nice or gentle mind you) He doesn't ask anything of them he wouldn't do himself and whatever sacrifices he makes in the game are necessary ones where everyone was aware of the risks from the beginning. They're not results of petty fits of frustration like some random hollywood villain with laser-shark pools. He's born to make hard decisions.

Yamato in game was a great leader. Yamato in anime is simply incompetent. Yamato in game would put the right people for the right job (when he could) and thus would not sacrifice so many of his people needlessly while putting the better fighters on stand by so far from the frontline. IIRC in early game he was n the frontline leading the JPs for boss battles whenever possible (even though circumstances prevents him from actually fighting) until he found that he could delegate that role to Hibiki. And what's up with his lack of smiles.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

I kind of wish they didn't reveal the Anguished One's name as Alcor so early in the anime. If people bother to look at where the Septentriones' names came from, it's a pretty big hint on what he truly is.

I also don't want to see him lose his Al Saiduq name, because that name along with his lack of human common sense is hilarious.

Alcor in game had a positively weird dialogue and positively bizarre sense of humor. Alcor in the anime is so boring.

I appreciate the anime trying to make Ronaldo and Keita more reasonable, but why do they find it necessary to shaft the other characters, especially Yamato, Daichi and Alcor, my favorites.

From the short scene we have, Jungo in anime actually sounds like someone of normal intelligence.

Dengar · 2013-05-06, 09:54

Blizzard, if there was a thank you feature, I would so use it. You put a lot of thought in your arguments, and while your posts are long, they are not unreadable. I'll take back the "no redeeming qualities" part about Yamato, and I guess I neglected to mention that Yamato has enough story to understand how he came to be like he is, and my version of an ideal world would pretty much be a kinder version of his, where people are judged based on ability, but the less "amazing" will also have their own respectable place. In the end, I actually like him as a character, but I would never get along with him as a person. On the flipside, I would at least attempt to be friends with Ronaldo in an attempt to save him from his own passion.

I'd also like to point out that he can be made aware of his flaws when you point them out.

Destined_Fate · 2013-05-06, 13:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dengar

The way you describe it sounds a lot more reasonable then "He's a dirty wannabe communist monster". And I've seen some arguments that could hold some water on a more meta narrative, like his lack of consistency. I just get extremely confused by people calling him a 'monster' when his opponent is the guy who lacks any human emotion or redeeming qualities, whereas Ronaldo is acting about as human as one could expect a human to act (IE on emotion).

Because I can see absolutely no circumstances that could cause me to suddenly decide that everyone in the world is shit and needs to bow before me.

And to understand something is something completely different from justifying it. Not even trying to understand, however, makes one ineligible to judge.

Because that was Ronaldo is. There's zero justification for what he did as he actively made everything worse than there's the fact that as soon s Yamato is mentioned(or he learns of his plans) Ronaldo flips his lid and goes crazy in his lust to one up Yamato. The sad thing is that he's so high off being a "Hero" that he doesn't see it. His murder of Makoto and him just doing it to spite Yamato shows that he's a complete monster that doesn't care about right or wrong, the only thing he cares about is that what he does/says is the only thing right no matter what. That and he wants to stick it to Yamato and his allies whenever possible, people getting hurt or things getting worse don't matter to him just as long as he "wins" against Yamato.

There's nothing to understand, murder is murder. It's just like how people parade around mass killers as super stars. Every time they do it nothing ever changes and "trying to understand them" always leads to nothing except making people forget about the Victims and tune in on what the Murderer may or may not say next.

Ronaldo should be locked up and tried as a murderer and terrorist for all the BS he pulls. Whether he thinks what he did was right or not doesn't change that it was dead wrong and the blood of innocents are on his hands. Blood that he NEVER takes responsibility for.

Blizzard · 2013-05-06, 18:21

I have a problem with Yamato's face in the anime too. Not only does he look much older, (I mean he had a friggin round baby-face in the game) the sprites I remember they used the most by default were his smirking one and that one fanged haughty laughter. Here, he hardly shows the former while I don't remember running across the latter even once.

That and they're sacrificing Daichi to make Io look better and give her more screen time and early character development. Normally it'd be good but Daichi is the bff of high plot importance. I guess his fault for not having boobs? The plot is too male character centered to begin with so figures they'd try to achieve a balance like this (and screw up)

And by removing Ronaldo's backstory they're also removing the human element from his character. Now he's just a -okay I won't go through the same darn wall of text I did in game comparison thread and risk spoilers- But now he's reduced to an one dimensional plot device for extra conflict.

Don't get me wrong, I do love the idea of an anime original route. Break Record is going to redo everything else fully voiced by June anyway. And many things from a game with multiple endings wouldn't carry out well to anime medium to begin with. But if they lose the essence of characters it wouldn't be a new route but a new verse. In any case I'll watch and see where it goes for now.

Shadow5YA · 2013-05-06, 19:19

I think the bigger problem is that Ronaldo lacks the scenes Yamato has to show other aspects of his character.

As Blizzard mentioned, there are multiple scenes like the candy scene and the taiyaki scene where we learn how sheltered and socially awkward he is.

Most if not all of Ronaldo's scenes that don't involve him attacking JPs or leaving him to die are just investigation work where Hibiki helps him find the info Yamato won't tell anyone himself. In a way, that is helpful to the protagonist to show a side of Yamato isn't entirely benevolent, but it doesn't add much depth to Ronaldo himself. That and as I mentioned before, it's strange how Ronaldo talks about helping the weak, but we never see any scenes where he does this. There's no giving food to the poor or helping the injured or anything of the sort. We see Io doing this and Makoto disobeying orders to allow her to do this, but not the guy who preaches about it the most.
All that leaves us is a guy who is devoted to nothing but revenge.

Destined_Fate · 2013-05-06, 20:28

Extra scenes would still not justify what he does to Makoto. She was defeated and the only reason he chose to kill her over capturing her is because she was close to Yamato and he wanted to get back at Yamato at any way he could.

You're also right that despite Ronaldo's preaching he's nerve shown actually doing the nice things he wants done. Hell, Makoto disobeys orders to help others and she always puts lives before her duty if she can.

eiyuu99 · 2013-05-07, 09:36

One has to play both Ronaldo and Yamato routes to understand their characters more. Unfortunately, many don't play their routes and their fate events and made their own conclusions.

Ronaldo comes off as an person consumed by anger until end of Day 6, if that supposedly makes one human...
Guess what happens on Day 7 Ronaldo's Way, which showed scenes which emphasize his hypocritical nature, which I already mentioned on page 1.

Destined_Fate · 2013-05-07, 13:56

I have played both routes, all endings too.

Ronaldo is simply irredeemable in the game and his murder of Makoto isn't even touched upon. He does it than thinks nothing of it and you don't even get to press him hard on why he even did it since there was no reason for it.

Anger doesn't justify cold blooded murder. If it did than those that killed their spouse/lover for cheating on them would never be charged with crimes as they were "angry" when they did it. Just like Ronaldo was "angry" with Yamato than took it out on Makoto.

maplehurry · 2013-05-07, 17:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

Anger doesn't justify cold blooded murder. If it did than those that killed their spouse/lover for cheating on them would never be charged with crimes as they were "angry" when they did it. Just like Ronaldo was "angry" with Yamato than took it out on Makoto.

That reminds me of a case where the killer managed to get away with less than 1 year in prison.

eiyuu99 · 2013-05-08, 07:28

I was referring to those who support Ronaldo and scorn Yamato have the tendency I mentioned.

Originally, I was hoping Ronaldo might redeem himself in his route and ...

Ronaldo only made his reputation even worse.

Destined_Fate · 2013-05-08, 12:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by eiyuu99

I was referring to those who support Ronaldo and scorn Yamato have the tendency I mentioned.

Originally, I was hoping Ronaldo might redeem himself in his route and ...

Ronaldo only made his reputation even worse.

Ah, I see. Sorry for the misunderstanding than.

If they do have that Makoto scene in the Anime it will be their best chance to try and redeem Ronaldo by having Ronaldo choose not to murder her but either let her go with a message or capture her.

melina_putri · 2013-05-09, 15:59

For an unknown reason, it seems Crunchyroll episode 6 simulcast doesn't have the next episode preview. The TV airing on MBS channel earlier actually had one.

Wednesday story seems to be split at least 2 parts (episode 7 & 8).

I wonder how they are going to handle the other 5 more episodes, maybe 2 episodes of Thursday and 1 episode for Friday-Sunday?

If that's true, Friday and Saturday is going to be really rushed.

Gundamx · 2013-05-09, 16:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by melina_putri

For an unknown reason, it seems Crunchyroll episode 6 simulcast doesn't have the next episode preview. The TV airing on MBS channel earlier actually had one.

Wednesday story seems to be split at least 2 parts (episode 7 & 8).

I wonder how they are going to handle the other 5 more episodes, maybe 2 episodes of Thursday and 1 episode for Friday-Sunday?

If that's true, Friday and Saturday is going to be really rushed.

simple
they are going to kill more characters...

Shadow5YA · 2013-05-09, 17:49

They could always omit the feud on the final two days. It's not like the anime is accurately covering the game's events anyway.

Blizzard · 2013-05-09, 17:53

I think it's more like they're ALREADY spreading it out between the Septentrions instead of all those long winded fate route subplots? This episode alone gave me quite a lot of flashbacks from when they first decided to split up in three. Though it probably won't be on the same scale.

Shadow5YA · 2013-05-09, 18:03

I think it probably is best that they settle their disputes gradually over the week.

I always found it jarring how some of your closest allies developed over the course of Fate events could suddenly defect in an instant at that point in the game. They should have had their minds made up on what to do long before then.

I will miss some of the conversations though. Some of the re-recruitment scenes were nice, especially Fumi's where she says how it's not fair that Hibiki is both smart and nice while she is only smart. I was quite flattered.

Gundamx · 2013-05-09, 18:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

I think it probably is best that they settle their disputes gradually over the week.

I always found it jarring how some of your closest allies developed over the course of Fate events could suddenly defect in an instant at that point in the game. They should have had their minds made up on what to do long before then.

I will miss some of the conversations though. Some of the re-recruitment scenes were nice, especially Fumi's where she says how it's not fair that Hibiki is both smart and nice while she is only smart. I was quite flattered.

if they are max Fate than you can have them back

2013-05-06, 06:52	Link #62
Blizzard KIRABOSHI☆!!! Join Date: Nov 2008 Age: 32	I'd say the candy scene was more telling on character development though. What with how much understanding and self awareness Yamato shows there. You kinda get to see how far he's come since meeting the protagonist (like finally growing a conscience) Takoyaki scene is more of a demonstration on how clueless he really is about the outside world and how actually eager to learn and open to new things. That and also showing how he values the protagonists opinions above his own judgement and teachings. I think I actually love all of his events since he's almost as bad as Alcor at How-Do-You-Human-101. Yeah, I know. It's a tragedy but it's still amusing to watch. My stand is that someone should stick him into a daycare worker uniform and dump a bunch of children on him with Hibiki supervising for misconduct. It'd be the ultimate shock therapy on socialization. That or he'd organize them into a guerilla army to take over the playground but still a win is a win. EDIT: omg finally short post \^o^/ and thanks Kimi <3 all I'm doing is ranting out feels though???

2013-05-06, 06:57	Link #63
Shadow5YA Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2010	I kind of wish they didn't reveal the Anguished One's name as Alcor so early in the anime. If people bother to look at where the Septentriones' names came from, it's a pretty big hint on what he truly is. I also don't want to see him lose his Al Saiduq name, because that name along with his lack of human common sense is hilarious.

2013-05-06, 09:54	Link #65
Dengar Kamen Rider Muppeteer Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Unknown Age: 39	Blizzard, if there was a thank you feature, I would so use it. You put a lot of thought in your arguments, and while your posts are long, they are not unreadable. I'll take back the "no redeeming qualities" part about Yamato, and I guess I neglected to mention that Yamato has enough story to understand how he came to be like he is, and my version of an ideal world would pretty much be a kinder version of his, where people are judged based on ability, but the less "amazing" will also have their own respectable place. In the end, I actually like him as a character, but I would never get along with him as a person. On the flipside, I would at least attempt to be friends with Ronaldo in an attempt to save him from his own passion. I'd also like to point out that he can be made aware of his flaws when you point them out.

2013-05-06, 18:21	Link #67
Blizzard KIRABOSHI☆!!! Join Date: Nov 2008 Age: 32	I have a problem with Yamato's face in the anime too. Not only does he look much older, (I mean he had a friggin round baby-face in the game) the sprites I remember they used the most by default were his smirking one and that one fanged haughty laughter. Here, he hardly shows the former while I don't remember running across the latter even once. That and they're sacrificing Daichi to make Io look better and give her more screen time and early character development. Normally it'd be good but Daichi is the bff of high plot importance. I guess his fault for not having boobs? The plot is too male character centered to begin with so figures they'd try to achieve a balance like this (and screw up) And by removing Ronaldo's backstory they're also removing the human element from his character. Now he's just a -okay I won't go through the same darn wall of text I did in game comparison thread and risk spoilers- But now he's reduced to an one dimensional plot device for extra conflict. Don't get me wrong, I do love the idea of an anime original route. Break Record is going to redo everything else fully voiced by June anyway. And many things from a game with multiple endings wouldn't carry out well to anime medium to begin with. But if they lose the essence of characters it wouldn't be a new route but a new verse. In any case I'll watch and see where it goes for now.

2013-05-06, 19:19	Link #68
Shadow5YA Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2010	I think the bigger problem is that Ronaldo lacks the scenes Yamato has to show other aspects of his character. As Blizzard mentioned, there are multiple scenes like the candy scene and the taiyaki scene where we learn how sheltered and socially awkward he is. Most if not all of Ronaldo's scenes that don't involve him attacking JPs or leaving him to die are just investigation work where Hibiki helps him find the info Yamato won't tell anyone himself. In a way, that is helpful to the protagonist to show a side of Yamato isn't entirely benevolent, but it doesn't add much depth to Ronaldo himself. That and as I mentioned before, it's strange how Ronaldo talks about helping the weak, but we never see any scenes where he does this. There's no giving food to the poor or helping the injured or anything of the sort. We see Io doing this and Makoto disobeying orders to allow her to do this, but not the guy who preaches about it the most. All that leaves us is a guy who is devoted to nothing but revenge.

2013-05-06, 20:28	Link #69
Destined_Fate Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: "Sacrifice one to appease the few."	Extra scenes would still not justify what he does to Makoto. She was defeated and the only reason he chose to kill her over capturing her is because she was close to Yamato and he wanted to get back at Yamato at any way he could. You're also right that despite Ronaldo's preaching he's nerve shown actually doing the nice things he wants done. Hell, Makoto disobeys orders to help others and she always puts lives before her duty if she can.

2013-05-07, 09:36	Link #70
eiyuu99 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008	One has to play both Ronaldo and Yamato routes to understand their characters more. Unfortunately, many don't play their routes and their fate events and made their own conclusions. Ronaldo comes off as an person consumed by anger until end of Day 6, if that supposedly makes one human... Guess what happens on Day 7 Ronaldo's Way, which showed scenes which emphasize his hypocritical nature, which I already mentioned on page 1.

2013-05-07, 13:56	Link #71
Destined_Fate Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: "Sacrifice one to appease the few."	I have played both routes, all endings too. Ronaldo is simply irredeemable in the game and his murder of Makoto isn't even touched upon. He does it than thinks nothing of it and you don't even get to press him hard on why he even did it since there was no reason for it. Anger doesn't justify cold blooded murder. If it did than those that killed their spouse/lover for cheating on them would never be charged with crimes as they were "angry" when they did it. Just like Ronaldo was "angry" with Yamato than took it out on Makoto.

2013-05-08, 07:28	Link #73
eiyuu99 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008	I was referring to those who support Ronaldo and scorn Yamato have the tendency I mentioned. Originally, I was hoping Ronaldo might redeem himself in his route and ... Ronaldo only made his reputation even worse.

2013-05-09, 15:59	Link #75
melina_putri Senior Member Join Date: May 2012	For an unknown reason, it seems Crunchyroll episode 6 simulcast doesn't have the next episode preview. The TV airing on MBS channel earlier actually had one. Wednesday story seems to be split at least 2 parts (episode 7 & 8). I wonder how they are going to handle the other 5 more episodes, maybe 2 episodes of Thursday and 1 episode for Friday-Sunday? If that's true, Friday and Saturday is going to be really rushed.

2013-05-09, 17:49	Link #77
Shadow5YA Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2010	They could always omit the feud on the final two days. It's not like the anime is accurately covering the game's events anyway.

2013-05-09, 17:53	Link #78
Blizzard KIRABOSHI☆!!! Join Date: Nov 2008 Age: 32	I think it's more like they're ALREADY spreading it out between the Septentrions instead of all those long winded fate route subplots? This episode alone gave me quite a lot of flashbacks from when they first decided to split up in three. Though it probably won't be on the same scale.

2013-05-09, 18:03	Link #79
Shadow5YA Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2010	I think it probably is best that they settle their disputes gradually over the week. I always found it jarring how some of your closest allies developed over the course of Fate events could suddenly defect in an instant at that point in the game. They should have had their minds made up on what to do long before then. I will miss some of the conversations though. Some of the re-recruitment scenes were nice, especially Fumi's where she says how it's not fair that Hibiki is both smart and nice while she is only smart. I was quite flattered.