Kyoto Animation: Studio discussion, speculation, and whatnot.

[Archon_Wing]

Well, to be honest, this stringing along has gotten ridiculous. Perhaps if they weren't so god damned secretive about everything regarding Haruhi, where everyone must be mega-cryptic due to some assumed (and undeserving so) genius meta crap we wouldn't have a great series that could be a lot more.

So it's more like I don't mind the gaps, but the lack of transparency, which makes me think they don't know what they are doing, lol.

To say my concern for Haruhi has plummeted is no understatement. To say my concern for Kyoani has plummeted is no understatement. Disappearance is a great movie, but 28 episodes and a movie after so many hoops after what 5 years is fucking lame.

The Shana franchise has not always been perfect, but at least it knew how to keep people reminded of its existence through the S ovas and such. And the most recent season, while not without troubles has shown an ambition to push forward.

Kyoani, on the other hand, still lives like it's 2006. And it's keeping Haruhi there too, holding it back. With a brief reprieve in the movie. But not even that can last forever.

Of course people are annoyed.

If there's no major announcements by the end of 2012, Kyoani hype can officially die. Go hope on the Shaft/Ufotable bandwagon or something. Or consult Pa works.

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by DemiSoda

And what's so bad about doing something different. Kyoani gets as much flak as praise for being labelled a "cash-cow milking" studio (since all their works are heavily moe), so could prove to be an argument to counter that notion.

The people who talk like that are unilaterally trolls.

Originally Posted by brocko

I havn't been following Haruhi or KyoAni all that closely in recent history tbh but this announcement or another Haruhi anime wasn't and hasn't really all that hyped/teased about was it?

Takemoto's hinting about their new work (which turned out to be Hyou-ka) and Hirano's hints about a 'secret project' she's working on, the whole 'three years' motif in Haruhi... I'd say it's time for a new season, but then we get, well, this.

[Reckoner]

Really now. Sure, we'd like more Haruhi but all people were ever saying was that it's nice to see KyoAni branch out potentially (No Nichijou was absolutely not branching out). Yes, their marketing is annoying and their treatment of the Haruhi fanbase is poor. Still, no need to shit on people for being glad to see them do something else.

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

The people who talk like that are unilaterally trolls.

Good to know I'm loved.

[Pocari_Sweat]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

The people who talk like that are unilaterally trolls.

Trolls or not, you can't deny Kyoani is a major player in the moe industry and that they WERE milking it. I say WERE because A-1 pictures is milking it right now with idolmaster, love 1000% and even Anohana to an extent, which is very Key-melodrama like. See Kyoani isn't even relevant this year. Have you ever seen a grim dark, 90s-style action, thriller series done by Kyoani as of late?

Meanwhiles, Production IG, Sunrise, Madhouse, Bones, Gainax, Gozno, White Fox...

(AKA Kyoani lacks diversity... bad).


Seriously, I can't believe people are complaining about lack of more Haruhi after an announcement that they will adapt a mystery series.

Originally Posted by Reckoner

Really now. Sure, we'd like more Haruhi but all people were ever saying was that it's nice to see KyoAni branch out potentially (No Nichijou was absolutely not branching out). Yes, their marketing is annoying and their treatment of the Haruhi fanbase is poor. Still, no need to shit on people for being glad to see them do something else.

And this has been my main point for the past two pages.

[Ithekro]

Oddly, in 2009, they were rather secretive about the new Haruhi. The Web Series got some press and the rumor mill about the release of Haruhi in April was the hype machine....KyoAni and their producers did protically nothing. We didn't even know there were going to be new episodes (for sure) until they happened. There were no previews of any kind. It wasn't until the 2009 run of Haruhi ended that we finally got confirmation about the movie.

Even K-On was seemingly like some sort of secret in 2009. We heard there was this show based on a manga called K-On coming out. I think there was even a trailer out and still no one could confirm who was animating it. People thought it was A-1 doing it for a long time.

I know they announced Kanon and Clannad early and people did know about them doing Haruhi beforehand (though few knew what a Haruhi was). I don't recall an announcement on Lucky Star. Nichijou was pretty much known to be KyoAni from the start. Just there seem to have been a lot a secrets in 2009. Maybe because of what happened with 801-chan when it was announced, then later unannounced.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Archon_Wing

To say my concern for Haruhi has plummeted is no understatement. To say my concern for Kyoani has plummeted is no understatement. Disappearance is a great movie, but 28 episodes and a movie after so many hoops after what 5 years is fucking lame.

The Shana franchise has not always been perfect, but at least it knew how to keep people reminded of its existence through the S ovas and such. And the most recent season, while not without troubles has shown an ambition to push forward.

Kyoani, on the other hand, still lives like it's 2006. And it's keeping Haruhi there too, holding it back. With a brief reprieve in the movie. But not even that can last forever.

Of course people are annoyed.

Excellent post, Archon. That's pretty much how I feel about it myself.

I can understand how, from the perspective of someone who isn't a hardcore Haruhi fan, Haruhi might seem to be getting a lot.

But for many fans of the Haruhi novels, Haruhi-chan and Tsuruya-chan didn't really satiate anybody's hunger for more Haruhi, as it's kind of like getting a bunch of comedic omakes when you want more in-canon plot.

Putting that aside, we have 28 episodes* and one movie over 5 years. As you say, that is pretty lame for a franchise this popular and with this much novel content yet to be adapted.


But yeah, the lack of transparency is perhaps the biggest issue. If, for example, I knew for certain that more Haruhi was going to arrive in Summer 2013 (even that late), I could rest at ease with a specific date and time for more Haruhi that's not way off in the future. A lot of the frustration is the uncertainty of it all; the sense that there's no rhyme or reason to the order that KyoAni does its adaptation work in.


Edit: Oh, and arguably 7 of those *28 episodes shouldn't count, lol. One thing that should be said here is that Haruhi 2009 wasn't terribly satisfying to a lot of Haruhi fans due to E8.

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by DemiSoda

Trolls or not, you can't deny Kyoani is a major player in the moe industry and that they WERE milking it.

The very idea that there is a 'moe industry' is completely ridiculous and invented by people angry at the popularity of Haruhi and K-On over the so-called 'manime' that every show supposedly was at some unspecified time in the past.

Originally Posted by DemiSoda

Seriously, I can't believe people are complaining about lack of more Haruhi after an announcement that they will adapt a mystery series.

If this is anything like GOSICK it's going to be absolutely awful. The Japanese are not, generally speaking, good at mysteries.

Originally Posted by Reckoner

No Nichijou was absolutely not branching out.

It was. It was nothing like K-On or Lucky Star. If it were being done by a different studio we'd be comparing it to Pani Poni Dash.

[Ithekro]

Well to be fair: All of book 1 - 4 of Haruhi have been adapted. Almost all of book 5 was adapted (into nine episodes....yes this is the book we got Endless Eight from...along with my favorate episode "The Day of Sagittarius"). There is only one more story from that book left: "Snowy Mountain Syndrome".
Two-fifths of Book 6 has been adapted (these being the every popular "Live Alive" and the first episode anyone ever saw of Haruhi: "The Adventures of Mikuru Asahina Episode 00").

This leaves eight stories total left. Four remaining from the five unadapted books, and four stories from the two partly adapted books. Book 7 is one story, and Book 8 has two stories. Yes that mean that one story is three books long. Books 9, 10, and 11 are one story.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

If this is anything like GOSICK it's going to be absolutely awful. The Japanese are not, generally speaking, good at mysteries.

While I agree that anime often doesn't handle mystery shows well, I think we should give this new project a chance at least.

I'd personally argue that there's a fair number of mystery elements to Haruhi's narrative, ironically. I feel that KyoAni has done a good job with that, so maybe they'll do a good job here as well.

[Pocari_Sweat]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

The very idea that there is a 'moe industry' is completely ridiculous and invented by people angry at the popularity of Haruhi and K-On over the so-called 'manime' that every show supposedly was at some unspecified time in the past.

Go ask people on this thread what they thought about 2009 and 2010. They will most likely tell you that it were weak years because of a severe lack of diversity. Most people aren't "mad" at the popularity of Haruhi or K-on, they were mad because slice of life/comedy/fanservice shows or imposer thriller/action shows that were slice of life/comedy/fanservice shows at heart were pretty much all we got (nearly) during those years. Fortunately, 2011 has been an excellent year so there has been little complaints so far (cept for the hardcore old-school anime fans who never stop complaining really)

If this is anything like GOSICK it's going to be absolutely awful.

Why are you even assuming it's going to be like Gosick in the first place?

It was. It was nothing like K-On or Lucky Star. If it were being done by a different studio we'd be comparing it to Pani Poni Dash.

It's still a slice of life/comedy much like K-on or Lucky Star. Until we get a grim dark action, thriller or science-fiction (and no I don't mean Haruhi like sci-fi but rather those on the lines of time of eve, planetes, ghost in the shell etc), that is not diversifying. So even this new series isn't that diversifying, but it's more credible than whatever XYZ moe series they could have picked up or what big franchise they could milk.

[Tiresias]

(2006 if you count the single OVA)

Add the fact that Endless Eight still gives me nightmares...sigh...and to think I once held Kyoani in high regards

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by DemiSoda

Go ask people on this thread what they thought about 2009 and 2010. They will most likely tell you that it were weak years because of a severe lack of diversity.

They were weak years because there were only like five enduring and memorable anime series between them, not because of 'a lack of diversity'.

Originally Posted by DemiSoda

It's still a slice of life/comedy much like K-on or Lucky Star. Until we get a grim dark action, thriller or science-fiction (and no I don't mean Haruhi like sci-fi but rather those on the lines of time of eve, planetes, ghost in the shell etc), that is not diversifying.

I don't understand why you want a work like that out of KyoAni of all studios. BONES and Production IG make shows like that.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by DemiSoda

It's still a slice of life/comedy much like K-on or Lucky Star. Until we get a grim dark action, thriller or science-fiction (and no I don't mean Haruhi like sci-fi but rather those on the lines of time of eve, planetes, ghost in the shell etc), that is not diversifying.

Haruhi sci-fi is not significantly "lighter" than Time of Eve's sci-fi, imo.

This is probably the crux of much of our disagreement here.

To me, KyoAni going back to a serious sci-fi show like Haruhi would be significantly different from most of what KyoAni has done since Haruhi 2006.

I'm going to be careful to not spoil many specifics here, but much of what is left to be adapted in the Haruhi novels is not your standard slice of life moe material. There's a lot of serious sci-fi in there, easily comparable to Steins;Gate, imo.

[Ithekro]

Considering how deep some of the Haruhi threads go into various sciences, yeah that would be the case. Lots of stuff on metaphysics, time travel, religion, and other things (nature of the universe kind of things).

I seem to recall it getting pretty deep in even the Genderbending thread because so many questions needed answers to make the characters feel correct.


What would weird people out if Full Metal Panic got that deep outside the realm of history, politics, and mecha/military hardware.

[Tyabann]

Vol 11's climax alone outshines a lot of the currently adapted material, heh.

[Ithekro]

Well you have to get there first. And even though there are only eight stories left to tell at present...two of those stories are really long and at several of the smaller ones tie directly into them, or are aftermath for Disappearance. They need to be planned out very carefully to make sure they work.

[Pocari_Sweat]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

I don't understand why you want a work like that out of KyoAni of all studios.

Why not? Kyoani has excellent directorial and animation staff and they have a good track record when it comes to adaptations. The problem lies is that they do not try hard enough and more importantly don't do enough.

BONES and Production IG make shows like that.

Studios like Production IG, Madhouse, Bones, Gainax etc also make slice of life and moe shows too. Heck, even the hated DEEN and J C Staff diversify much more than Kyoani does (too bad their adaptations tend to fail a lot of the time).

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Haruhi sci-fi is not significantly "lighter" than Time of Eve's sci-fi, imo.

This is probably the crux of much of our disagreement here.

To me, KyoAni going back to a serious sci-fi show like Haruhi would be significantly different from most of what KyoAni has done since Haruhi 2006.

I'm going to be careful to not spoil many specifics here, but much of what is left to be adapted in the Haruhi novels is not your standard slice of life moe material. There's a lot of serious sci-fi in there, easily comparable to Steins;Gate, imo.

Guess we are strong disagreement for this . To me, I found Haruhi's sci-fi elements as serious as I did Code Geass's or the currently airing Guilty Crown's sci-fi elements (i.e. I didn't take them seriously and just enjoyed the ride). But it's different genres. Haruhi was a slice of life first, drama/sci-fi second to me. Was enjoyable though, don't get me wrong on that.

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by DemiSoda

Why not? Kyoani has excellent directorial and animation staff and they have a good track record when it comes to adaptations. The problem lies is that they do not try hard enough and more importantly don't do enough.

You understand WHY they make so few series a year, right?

Originally Posted by DemiSoda

Haruhi was a slice of life first, drama/sci-fi second to me. Was enjoyable though, don't get me wrong on that.

It's not even a slice-of-life show. I don't know where you're getting that from.

[brocko]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

Well you have to get there first. And even though there are only eight stories left to tell at present...two of those stories are really long and at several of the smaller ones tie directly into them, or are aftermath for Disappearance. They need to be planned out very carefully to make sure they work.

For comparisons sake they've adapted 11 stories so far, 8 of which were side-stories while the other 3 were main story arcs.

Ithekro mentions there's 8 more stories left to adapt, and I counted 6 short stories so that leaves only 2 more main story arcs left (i havn't read beyond Live A Live, so I'm just going off the chapters list, so if someone can make a more accurate statement please do).

That means that they've roughly adapted half of the available novel material thus far (slightly give or take).

With the pace that the novel seems to be coming out, it's a little understandable that might actually wanna take it slow from here on out in fear of running out of source material to adapt.

[Pocari_Sweat]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

You understand WHY they make so few series a year, right?

Yes. But one or two series a year is still pretty piss poor for a pretty well known studio in my eyes.

It's not even a slice-of-life show. I don't know where you're getting that from.

Myself, MAL and ANN disagrees with you.