What's with all this Orihime hate?

[sayde]

Originally Posted by Marionette

And you =/= Ichigo.

Obviously.

Originally Posted by Marionette

Just because some guys don't give a shit who they date as long as they get action from a hot girl doesn't mean that Ichigo is one of them.

I was replying more so to the generalized statement I quoted. I wasn't taking into considering how Ichigo would've reacted.

Anyways, whether it's sexual assault or not, kissing someone while they're sleeping clearly isn't something that seems to be frowned down upon by most of society. We've even got famous fairy tales revolving around the act. (Sleeping Beauty anyone?) Case in point, in these instances, violating the law just doesn't hold up very well when supporting reasons for disliking her character. Otherwise, that would make Rukia no better than Orihime. I mean how would you like it if some guy you hardly knew, sneaked into your room and slept inside your closet while you were sleeping? I'd be pretty pissed, I think anyone would be.

[Ichigo&Rukia]

if it was an attractive woman instead...not even a little bit.

Problem is Ichigo does not find Orihime attractive in the first place. When he carried her in HM, he had her ass next to his face and he didn't even blush. Yes he was busy but was he THAT busy not to notice a huge ass a milimetre from his face?
Seriously, while Orihime was blushing like crazy he didn't do anything. Just compare it to when he freaked out over Rukia sitting on his bed or when Yoruichi was naked or when Matsumoto unbuttoned her shirt.
That's why he doesn't see Orihime this way.

[Mr. DJ]

I don't think any of those are comparable at all, since Matsumoto was pretty much offering him a free show, Yoruichi was pretty much naked right in front of him and even teased him a bit. The Rukia one has to be from the early chapters i.e. she was still a new face, since he doesn't overreact like that anymore if I remember correctly

You can more than likely compare it to when Ichigo saved Rukia in SS and was holding her like luggage. To whereas in HM, he was holding Orihime like a bag of potatoes

[Marionette]

Originally Posted by sayde

Obviously.



I was replying more so to the generalized statement I quoted. I wasn't taking into considering how Ichigo would've reacted.

Anyways, whether it's sexual assault or not, kissing someone while they're sleeping clearly isn't something that seems to be frowned down upon by most of society. We've even got famous fairy tales revolving around the act. (Sleeping Beauty anyone?) Case in point, in these instances, violating the law just doesn't hold up very well when supporting reasons for disliking her character. Otherwise, that would make Rukia no better than Orihime. I mean how would you like it if some guy you hardly knew, sneaked into your room and slept inside your closet while you were sleeping? I'd be pretty pissed, I think anyone would be.

Except this isn't a fairy tale, and this is not medieval Europe. Kissing someone while they are asleep is only OK if the said person is your immediate family or someone you have a romantic relationship with, otherwise how is it not frowned upon? Realistically, unless they are wasted at a frat party, any guy I know would go WTF GET OFF ME if they found some chick on their face waking up from a nap, anywhere, especially in their room, regardless of what she looks like.

And about Rukia. No I wouldn't be that mad if the said person is there because needs me around to help her keep balance between worlds, and the only reason she do is because she lost all her powers to save me and my family. Especially since that person have no desire to do anything to me in my sleep.

And I didn't said that I disliked her for it, considering she didn't actually do it. I'm just correcting what someone said about kissing an unconscious person is not sexual assault. I did found it a lot more weird than romantic though, but mostly because she choose to spend her last moments with a guy whose room she's never even seen, instead of her best friend. Which is why I mostly dislikes her: she makes a guy who's never given her a second look and merely considers her someone who is in the same friend group, the absolute everything of her world.

Originally Posted by DjTrizz

I don't think any of those are comparable at all, since Matsumoto was pretty much offering him a free show, Yoruichi was pretty much naked right in front of him and even teased him a bit. The Rukia one has to be from the early chapters i.e. she was still a new face, since he doesn't overreact like that anymore if I remember correctly

You can more than likely compare it to when Ichigo saved Rukia in SS and was holding her like luggage. To whereas in HM, he was holding Orihime like a bag of potatoes

Actually, the Rukia one is after she returned from SS. While he was holding Rukia he was also pretty busy posing/giving her his climatic speech And teenage boys don't need to be reminded of asses by their face to notice it, Orihime herself was obviously aware of the fact XD

[Mr. DJ]

Except this isn't a fairy tale

wait...Bleach isn't fictional!?

think we're getting caught up a bit too much w/ real life stuff

[Marionette]

Originally Posted by DjTrizz

wait...Bleach isn't fictional!?

think we're getting caught up a bit too much w/ real life stuff

Factional=/=fairy tale. However unrealistic, Bleach does follow some basic rule in the modern world. Ichigo is portrayed as a actual teenager in the real world, pretty accurately.

[Blerghovic]

Originally Posted by Marionette

Ichigo is portrayed as a actual teenager in the real world, pretty accurately.

Ichigo? An accurately portrayed teenager? ....Are you sure you're thinking about the right guy?

[Langus]

Originally Posted by Marionette

Are you kidding? The show is from Ichigo's perspective so if he see a flat earth (as it would be from a human perspective) than the earth is flat?

LOL! What? Can you please try to be at least a LITTLE articulate if you're going to make an argument?

Originally Posted by Marionette

Ichigo doesn't know Orihime likes him (supposedly) than it makes no difference that she does? Ichigo think the SS is the enemy so they are Rukia's enemy also? That makes no sense even if Bleach is told only from Ichigo's perspective, and it isn't.

First point, Bleach IS told from Ichigo's perspective. If you can't at least understand that, than I have nothing else to say to you. It's like Naruto - the story is from Naruto's perspective but you still get to see/hear the side stories of other characters to create depth.

Secondly, where did I talk about Ichigo knowing or not knowing Orihime's feelings for him? I didn't, but regardless it doesn't matter. Whether he knows she likes him or not, he still would have ventured on into HM to rescue her so I don't get what your point is supposed to be there.

Thirdly, yes as far as Ichigo was concerned at the start of the SS arc, SS wanted to kill Rukia therefore they were her enemy and his. Generally, if you're using basic logic, someone who wants you dead is your enemy. But maybe I'm giving people too much credit with that one...

Originally Posted by Marionette

Don't tell me that I'm "splitting hairs over a really stupid issue" because you assume so, because I'm not telling you that you are not capable of complex thoughts although at this point I'm starting to assume that.

Again, WHAT?

Originally Posted by Marionette

And again: guilt over killing someone you admire is not the same thing as having low self-esteem. That doesn't even to be explained, that would be stating the obvious, just out your self in that position for a moment. Would you feel the same about killing your mentor and as you would about sucking at fighting/comforting your crush/getting his/her attention?

I think I specifically stated that they weren't the same, but perhaps reading comprehension isn't your strong suit?

I said that it doesn't matter what the SOURCE of their emotions of self doubt were. They were both emo during their capture and they were both willing to sacrifice themselves for the safety of their friends.

Rukia and Orihime have had different life experiences but that doesn't make Orihime's emotions any less valid than Rukia's. She's supposed to represent your "typical" teenage girl. Most teenage girls don't have killing their mentor hanging over their heads so I think most fans would find it hard to relate to that kind of emotional pain. What they CAN understand though is the pain of unrequited love, not feeling up to par, etc.

Personally, I found Rukia's stubborn assertions that Ichigo leave her alone and stop trying to rescue her to be just as annoying as Orihime's cryfest over being useless in battle and not wanting her friends to risk themselves to save her. I don't even LIKE Orihime as a character (feel free to ask around if you don't believe that), but as far as this goes at least I can see it for what it is.

If you're a rabid Rukia fan that's cool, but don't try and make out like Rukia's emotional pain is so much more justified and therefore less annoying/more acceptable/totally different than Orihime's because really, you're just kidding yourself and in the eyes of the manga writer the emotional struggles of both girls achieved the same end.

[Kakashi]

Originally Posted by Marionette

Realistically, unless they are wasted at a frat party, any guy I know would go WTF GET OFF ME if they found some chick on their face waking up from a nap, anywhere, especially in their room, regardless of what she looks like.

You clearly don't understand guys.

And I didn't said that I disliked her for it, considering she didn't actually do it. I'm just correcting what someone said about kissing an unconscious person is not sexual assault.

You're right, kissing a man who's unconscious is sexual assault. It's a violation of another person’s body and autonomy. And the promotion of sexual assault that falls short of rape is classified under the heading of "rape culture". Good luck catching Orihime in HM though.

I did found it a lot more weird than romantic though, but mostly because she choose to spend her last moments with a guy whose room she's never even seen, instead of her best friend. Which is why I mostly dislikes her: she makes a guy who's never given her a second look and merely considers her someone who is in the same friend group, the absolute everything of her world.

No...the decision was pre-planned for her by the mangaka. He even made it clear that choosing the person to say goodbye to was a hard choice for Orihime.

"You see Kurosaki-kun, I came to say goodbye. There are a lot of other people I wanted to say goodbye to, as well, like Tatsuki-chan, Ishida-kun, Rukia-chan [...]"

I get the feeling you kind of vaguely remember the scene, as if she came in intending to steal a kiss from Ichigo. She came to wish him farewell and to say all of the things she could never say to his face. In the process she got caught up in the moment, and the rest is history.

[sayde]

Originally Posted by Marionette

And about Rukia. No I wouldn't be that mad if the said person is there because needs me around to help her keep balance between worlds, and the only reason she do is because she lost all her powers to save me and my family. Especially since that person have no desire to do anything to me in my sleep.

We can sit here and justify both of their actions all day. But it doesn't change the fact that she broke the law (Just like Orihime almost did). And yet, no one here is going to use that as a serious excuse to dislike Rukia -- That's what I was trying to get at.

Originally Posted by Marionette

I'm just correcting what someone said about kissing an unconscious person is not sexual assault.

Point taken.

Originally Posted by Marionette

she makes a guy who's never given her a second look and merely considers her someone who is in the same friend group, the absolute everything of her world.

We're talking about a guy who would not only risk his life in an instant to save her, but he already has. In fact, he was the first one of her friends to save her along with her brothers soul. Not even her best friend can claim to have done that. This is also the same guy who she knows to be selfless enough to do that for just about anyone. So I can see how some strong feelings might develop towards such a person regardless of whether he's given her a second look or not -- especially in the eyes of a so-called "typical" teenage girl.

I don't have much to say that hasn't already been said towards any of the other points.

[Animepandafreak]

Originally Posted by DjTrizz

wonder if that person knows that Tatsuki has supported and encouraged Orihime in her feelings for Ichigo.

yea ur right she was.

[Mr. DJ]

Originally Posted by Marionette

Factional=/=fairy tale. However unrealistic, Bleach does follow some basic rule in the modern world. Ichigo is portrayed as a actual teenager in the real world, pretty accurately.

define accurate

[-Sho-]

Wow there are such a topic here ...
Me my best is Yoruichi and Rangiku ! I'm not interest to the character's orihime , for me she's a little stupid (it's my opinion)
So there is a fight for Rukia's fan vs Orihime's fan lol
I pass ...

[Kurosaki Rukia]

I hate her
Because to me,she is so stupid
Thx

[Cursing Strike]

Originally Posted by Kurosaki Rukia

I hate her
Because to me,she is so stupid
Thx

Stupid is such a strong word.......she's uh.....naive.

[Zeda]

Orihime is actually quite inteligent. However she is also an air-head and that makes the illusion that she's dumb.

[Utsukushii Hono'o]

More or less she doesn't apply common sense

[Marionette]

Originally Posted by Hiraishin

Ichigo? An accurately portrayed teenager? ....Are you sure you're thinking about the right guy?

Other than the superpower aspect, what's so unrealistic about him being a teenager? Either way, his portrayal is a lot more grounded on reality than anything in Sleeping Beauty.

Originally Posted by Langus

LOL! What? Can you please try to be at least a LITTLE articulate if you're going to make an argument?



First point, Bleach IS told from Ichigo's perspective. If you can't at least understand that, than I have nothing else to say to you. It's like Naruto - the story is from Naruto's perspective but you still get to see/hear the side stories of other characters to create depth.

Secondly, where did I talk about Ichigo knowing or not knowing Orihime's feelings for him? I didn't, but regardless it doesn't matter. Whether he knows she likes him or not, he still would have ventured on into HM to rescue her so I don't get what your point is supposed to be there.

Thirdly, yes as far as Ichigo was concerned at the start of the SS arc, SS wanted to kill Rukia therefore they were her enemy and his. Generally, if you're using basic logic, someone who wants you dead is your enemy. But maybe I'm giving people too much credit with that one...



Again, WHAT?



I think I specifically stated that they weren't the same, but perhaps reading comprehension isn't your strong suit?

I said that it doesn't matter what the SOURCE of their emotions of self doubt were. They were both emo during their capture and they were both willing to sacrifice themselves for the safety of their friends.

Rukia and Orihime have had different life experiences but that doesn't make Orihime's emotions any less valid than Rukia's. She's supposed to represent your "typical" teenage girl. Most teenage girls don't have killing their mentor hanging over their heads so I think most fans would find it hard to relate to that kind of emotional pain. What they CAN understand though is the pain of unrequited love, not feeling up to par, etc.

Personally, I found Rukia's stubborn assertions that Ichigo leave her alone and stop trying to rescue her to be just as annoying as Orihime's cryfest over being useless in battle and not wanting her friends to risk themselves to save her. I don't even LIKE Orihime as a character (feel free to ask around if you don't believe that), but as far as this goes at least I can see it for what it is.

If you're a rabid Rukia fan that's cool, but don't try and make out like Rukia's emotional pain is so much more justified and therefore less annoying/more acceptable/totally different than Orihime's because really, you're just kidding yourself and in the eyes of the manga writer the emotional struggles of both girls achieved the same end.

Wow, someone likes to throw names around instead of formulating an actual argument. I don't even feel the least bad for saying that you don't seem to be capable of complex thoughts. Because that appears to be true if:

1. If you think that if the story is told from Ichigo's perspective (and I said it isn't completely, because to me that means that all we can see is what he see, that's irrelevant though), than everything he think is the fact and everything he doesn't know about doesn't exist.

2. If you can't appropriate the obvious difference in nature of Rukia's guilt and Orihime's self-doubt. So no, it's not just from different sources. Just because two feelings can provoke similar reactions doesn't make them basically the same.

3. If you think if someone wants Rukia’s life than they must be her enemy. Soldiers who know that they broke military law wouldn’t necessarily see their leaders as their enemy, how hard is that to understand? It doesn’t matter what Ichigo thinks, Rukia gets to choose who she considers her enemy.

Originally Posted by Kakashi

You clearly don't understand guys.

I understand guys enough to know that they are not all the same, that some actually have place common sense over their testosterone.

Originally Posted by Kakashi

You're right, kissing a man who's unconscious is sexual assault. It's a violation of another person’s body and autonomy. And the promotion of sexual assault that falls short of rape is classified under the heading of "rape culture". Good luck catching Orihime in HM though.

Originally Posted by Marionette

And I didn't said that I disliked her for it, considering she didn't actually do it. I'm just correcting what someone said about kissing an unconscious person is not sexual assault.

But just for the record though. If she actually did it, it would be creepy and wrong. And he would necessrarily like it, because he never asked for that, he never even snack a glance at her rack or did anything in the least to suggest that.

Originally Posted by Kakashi

No...the decision was pre-planned for her by the mangaka. He even made it clear that choosing the person to say goodbye to was a hard choice for Orihime.

"You see Kurosaki-kun, I came to say goodbye. There are a lot of other people I wanted to say goodbye to, as well, like Tatsuki-chan, Ishida-kun, Rukia-chan [...]"

I get the feeling you kind of vaguely remember the scene, as if she came in intending to steal a kiss from Ichigo. She came to wish him farewell and to say all of the things she could never say to his face. In the process she got caught up in the moment, and the rest is history.

It was a hard choice, but it's still very much a conscious choice she made. The Kubo never clearly indicated whether she actually planned to try to kiss him or whether her feelings merely came over her. And why does that matter?

Originally Posted by sayde

We're talking about a guy who would not only risk his life in an instant to save her, but he already has. In fact, he was the first one of her friends to save her along with her brothers soul. Not even her best friend can claim to have done that. This is also the same guy who she knows to be selfless enough to do that for just about anyone. So I can see how some strong feelings might develop towards such a person regardless of whether he's given her a second look or not -- especially in the eyes of a so-called "typical" teenage girl.

Tatsuki has done everything she could have done to protect her, she made it her job to look after her. Tatsuki was the first and (for a long time) only person to protect her since her brother's death. Ichigo would've never even remembered who she was if not for Tatsuki, he actually introduced her by saying "she's friends with this girl I grew up with".

So no, just becasue he is a generally great person doesn't mean that you are justified in neglecting your best friend who you goes way back with. Girls who starts to ignoring their friends after getting a boyfriend ends up with no one to go to after their break up. And Ichigo isn't even her boyfriend, he hasn't even showed any interests in her whatsoever.

[Langus]

Originally Posted by Marionette

Wow, someone likes to throw names around instead of formulating an actual argument. I don't even feel the least bad for saying that you don't seem to be capable of complex thoughts. Because that appears to be true if:

1. If you think that if the story is told from Ichigo's perspective (and I said it isn't completely, because to me that means that all we can see is what he see, that's irrelevant though), than everything he think is the fact and everything he doesn't know about doesn't exist.

2. If you can't appropriate the obvious difference in nature of Rukia's guilt and Orihime's self-doubt. So no, it's not just from different sources. Just because two feelings can provoke similar reactions doesn't make them basically the same.

3. If you think if someone wants Rukia’s life than they must be her enemy. Soldiers who know that they broke military law wouldn’t necessarily see their leaders as their enemy, how hard is that to understand? It doesn’t matter what Ichigo thinks, Rukia gets to choose who she considers her enemy.

Throwing...names...around? Again with the lack of reading comprehension...

I see no sense in repeating myself if you can't be bothered to read my actual words. (I have already addressed all of your three points more than once).

If you want to engage in selective reading for the sake of being argumentative that's your problem.

[Mr. DJ]

Other than the superpower aspect, what's so unrealistic about him being a teenager? Either way, his portrayal is a lot more grounded on reality than anything in Sleeping Beauty.

sounds like special pleading, it's the fact that he's basically a super hero that doesn't make him a realistic teenager.

even before he was a shinigami...his life was far from typical...beating up a entire gang is hardly normal teenage life