(L) Denno Coil (TV Series!)

[Genstone]

Originally Posted by wao

Well when I mean glacial I mean glacial... But if I have the scans it would be much faster because then I don't have to scan them in.

I have a feeling the stuff you have might be the small booklets/storyboards that come attached with the limited edition DVDs.

None of the books are out in English afaik and I'm not sure if sub groups are doing any of the specials (I've only seen the ones for the first and second DVDs and I wasn't interested) I really hope that either way I finish that very very interesting Project Book before next term starts - it's chock full of highly fascinating info.

Yeah. Seems like the ones I have are what came together with the DVDs. I haven't yet got any part of the Project Book so I don't know how it's like inside. Anyway, I'll keep myself updated.

As for the specials, I already have the raws of the specials from the first DVD. I don't think any group is subbing them. It's okay though. I like to collect all those specials and makings. I'm always interested in how they did what they did.

[Ansalem]

I just finished up watching this series and I can say I was really impressed.

At the beginning of the show, I thought found much of the world presented as very interesting. The interactive digital world overlaying the real world viewable through the glasses is an intriguing concept. The last time I was as impressed with a digital world concept was probably when reading Snow Crash. Even so, I felt the show was moving a bit slowly and I didn't watch more than one or two episodes at a time. Slowly as the show progressed, it became more and more compelling. The characters displayed a natural interaction and even the scoundrels became likable. The plot also moved in a very impressive manner.

The early shows served as introduction and then moved into a somewhat episodic style of storytelling. Even during this point, however, the episode endings tending to become minor cliff hangers that piqued my interest in the continuation of the story. It became clear that there was an overarching plot-line which I consider to be magnificently executed. It was built slowly, with important clues stretching the entire length of the series, instead of clumped at the end, and come together in a touching and meaningful way. Near the end the supporting characters gave way their screen time when the story turned to focus on the pair of Yuuko. It was very artful in the way that the villain of the story from Yasako's point of view changes time and time again over the show, as you begin to understand each character's emotions.

I could write more, but it seems like I'd be mostly talking to myself since the show is long ended and this thread fairly abandoned. As powerful and well-connected a plot the show has, it's a shame it's not more popular. Skimming through the list, I saw the subbing was always a bit behind the raws, coupled with the slow pace at the beginning, I suppose explains it to a certain extent. I picked it up mostly from seeing it in various favorites lists threads from people whose tastes I seem to share, and that was certainly to my benefit. I will end by saying that even if in the end, they were working for an ally, Boku Sattchii will remain one of the most terrifying phrases ever uttered.

[SeijiSensei]

Looking for a 2010 calendar? How about this?

[Guardian Enzo]

All right, don't jump down my throat here, I'm just observing.

So I'm 7 eps through this. Finally persuaded to watch by the weight of all the strong recommendatiuons from esteemed posters - and the good reviews. It's been in my "will watch" file for ages and as part of the incredible 2007 crop, demanded my attention. And so far, I like it - definitely from the Ghibli-lite side of the Madhouse ouvre. I especially enjoy the intriguing take on the notion that kids are living in a different world that only they can perceive - it's been done many times, but this is a new take on the theme, a quite literal one. Very inventive.

However - and this is where the non throat-jumping comes in...

It seems to me that there's a pretty strong anti-male sentiment running through this series. Remember those hideous T-shirts someone was selling to little girls a few years ago - "Boys are stupid, throw rocks at them!"? That's sort of the vibe I'm getting here. I certainly have no problem with strong feminist themes - many if not most of my favorite series feature strong women or girls at their center. And I don't have any issues with good old-fashioned war of the sexes stuff, or casting light on the peculiarities and oddities of either gender. But so far, I'm picking up what feels like a pretty mean-spirited sense of mockery here. It feels a little cheap and juvenile - and not in the good way a smart kids series can be juvenile. Beneath the dignity of the series as a whole.

So - am I the only one who feels this way? Is this something that moderates over the course of the series? I'm not dropping it or anything, but I can't say it doesn't hurt my enjoyment of the show a little bit.

[Ansalem]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

It seems to me that there's a pretty strong anti-male sentiment running through this series. Remember those hideous T-shirts someone was selling to little girls a few years ago - "Boys are stupid, throw rocks at them!"? That's sort of the vibe I'm getting here. I certainly have no problem with strong feminist themes - many if not most of my favorite series feature strong women or girls at their center. And I don't have any issues with good old-fashioned war of the sexes stuff, or casting light on the peculiarities and oddities of either gender. But so far, I'm picking up what feels like a pretty mean-spirited sense of mockery here. It feels a little cheap and juvenile - and not in the good way a smart kids series can be juvenile. Beneath the dignity of the series as a whole.

So - am I the only one who feels this way? Is this something that moderates over the course of the series? I'm not dropping it or anything, but I can't say it doesn't hurt my enjoyment of the show a little bit.

Well, I guess you're referring to the hackers club of the boys. I'm not sure that I would call the shows treatment of them as mean-spirited. They are certainly a bunch of rascals, I suppose you would put it, but I never got the impression that it was meant to be understood the way you're interpreting it. The lead boy, Daichi, has a pretty classic reason for acting as he does. I'm not sure if it's been hinted at yet.

Spoiler for Daichi's Movitations:

He has a huge crush on Fumie, and took the typical young boy's route to expressing this: being a bully to her.

Two of the club aren't really fleshed out, but Denpa and Akira get development as the series goes on.

Spoiler for Denpa and Akira, later on:

Denpa is probably the single most loyal character in the show, and certainly is a caring individual. Akira turns out be pretty clever as well.

Haraken, as far I can remember, isn't potrayed in a negative fashion at all. There are a couple more male characters that come in later in the series, and the initial rivalry of the hacker boys and Fumie/Yasako is more of a method for character development and to set up the overall plot, rather than being a major theme of the story. I'd try to let the show develop without dwelling too much on that, and I think you'll find plenty of reasons to think otherwise as the show continues.

[Guardian Enzo]

Thanks, Ansalem - good to know. Haraken (Hakuren?) isn't portrayed in a negative light so far, so much as a bit of a cipher - he's an impassive wall of stone, though we did get a bit of backstory to show us why.

[wandering-dreamer]

Gah, I've gotten through 20 episodes so far and just need to make myself watch the last few. It's not that I hate the show, I love it! But I've heard that 21 was a sad episode so I'm trying to watch it when I have time to take it in later.

[Guardian Enzo]

BTW, ironically, ep 8 (the summer festival) was one that addressed a lot of the complaints I had in the above post. The guys - especially Daichi - were presented in a much more empathetic way and it was generally an outstanding ep.

[totoum]

Originally Posted by Ansalem

however, the episode endings tending to become minor cliff hangers that piqued my interest in the continuation of the story

Those cliffhangers were actualy almost unbearable to me when watching this show as it aired (the biggest ones to me being episodes 18 and 23)

And since there was no manga,nobody knew what was going to happen,everybody was in the same boat.

I was just a lurker,but this thread was really great to follow as I was watching the series waiting for the subs to come out.

[Guardian Enzo]

It's funny, but the in the run of episodes after I posted a few days back, Daichi and Haruken have more or less taken over the show. Talk about a change - this has been a real left turn from what I was worrying over based on the first 7 eps. Everyone is more or less being given a chance to shine and both genders are being presented in a much more balanced way.

[ArrowSmith]

Is this ever going to be licensed? I've heard about it for more then 2 years and layed off the fansubs because I wanted to pay money for this!

[SeijiSensei]

I sincerely doubt Dennou Coil will be licensed, though I admit to saying that about Oh! Edo Rocket and being proven wrong by Funimation. Coil didn't sell all that well in Japan, averaging under 3,000 copies per DVD. It's also not the type of show that's currently popular with R1 DVD buyers, having neither sex nor "action" as an allure. If Noein had been released in 2007, do you think it would have found a licensor by now? I think it would be on the shelf next to Coil waiting for some of that R1 largess to roll in.

One possibility is that Madhouse pushes Coil onto a R1 licensor by bundling it with another, more appealing property. I've wondered from time to time whether Funimation's decision to license Rocket came about through a deal like this, perhaps tied to Fullmetal Alchemist which shared the same director and senior script supervisor. I'm not sure Iso would have the same clout, especially after reading these comments about the struggles he went through to get Coil made. That said, it's pretty obvious Madhouse invested a lot of time and money into Coil, an investment I'm sure they'd like to recoup. It doesn't seem likely they've even covered their costs on the domestic market, so I'm sure they'd be happy to have a licensor pick it up for R1 distribution. I just don't see the ever-shrinking group of R1 licensors fighting to get the show. At the moment, it looks like a good prospect for Sentai Filmworks, except that its sub-only approach may not work if many of Coil's viewers will be kids.

Another possibillity is that some licensor will go for the collector market and create a Blu-ray version. Remarkably Coil placed seventh on a totally non-scientific survey of Japanese anime viewers asking them which shows deserved a BD release in their country. Given the unimpressive sales of the DVD, I'd be surprised if their wish will be granted. It doesn't look much like the shows in the list of top anime Blu-ray releases ANN runs each week (Higashi no Eden, Bakemonogatari, K-On, Queen's Blade, FMA, for example). Coil's design and story might work with some of the Higashi no Eden crowd, but Coil's focus on children probably limits it appeal.

(I searched Google for "dennou coil bluray" and guess what popped up?
http://cgi.ebay.com/Denno-Coil-Denno...22166003r20856
Too bad Ureshii can't really sue for infringement! )

[Guardian Enzo]

I must confess this series has truly grown on me in a big way. Episodes 8 (Summer Festival) and 12 (Daichi's First Hair) were among the best I've watched this year, and 13 (The Last Plesiosaur) one of the saddest and most suspenseful. 12 was unique in being both hilariously funny and mind-blowing at the same time - an insanely inventive and clever take on sim gaming. Dennou Coil is a rare breed in that it's well and truly a children's show that assumes the children watching it are smart (which they usually are). The writing really captures the essence of kids that age in a way few series do. And delightfully, after the somewhat formulaic first 7 episodes the remainder have largely been devoted to fleshing out the supporting characters, one by one. I respect a show that treats supporting players as more than plot movers and background noise.

An, 2007 - sigh. What a freakin' amazing year. I suspect we shall never see its like in anime again...

[Guardian Enzo]

Through 20 eps and ready to call this an excellent series - I'm especially loving Paku Romi's bravura turn as Haraken. But here's the thing that bugs me - why bother to get us hooked on a bunch of great supporting characters, only to have them disappear without a trace? I haven't seen Daichi or Denpa in about six eps, and Fumie was gone for most of four.

[wandering-dreamer]

Whew, looks like I just beat Enzo but I finally finished the series and wow, one of my favorites of all time. I really feel like there isn't much to say since everyone earlier in this thread was prolific and eloquent in their thoughts but I did have one thing to say.

Originally Posted by chrno

I find it interesting that this series is somewhat tagged sci-fi and mystery. They should add "supernatural" as well. Because it does sort of touch on concepts of "existence", "spirituality" and possibly "metaphysics". The only thing is that it's given a sci-fi "spin". But whatever anyone wants to believe all kind of go hand in hand.

That was something I noticed too, Denno (now officially spelled Dennoh?) Coil has a lot in common with the average supernatural show. The world that not everyone can see, spells, creatures that are never fully explained in the end, spells, the young age of the characters (with the older mentor of course), heck, even hiding out in a temple is a classic supernatural anime scene. And I liked the show even more for it, for using the older "kid comes of age from interacting with and then leaving the fantasy world" story and making it modern, making it fit and, unlike the older story, not having the kids say goodbye to the other world entirely.
Of course, by the end it seems like no one but Isako and Yasako matters even more (I was unhappy and surprised to see all the side characters absent from the last episodes) so I wish that Coil had a bit more time to tell more of the story. But, since it's been nearly three years since it aired now, that seems unlikely and I'm wondering how good it's chances are for licensing. Too bad it's not even legally streaming, I want more people to see this show!

Originally Posted by Claies

Spoiler for Surely we have not met before?:

LOL, I've seen the image a few times in the thread but I never noticed before that Nekome has the same camera as I do. A film camera I might add.

[Claies]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

I must confess this series has truly grown on me in a big way. Episodes 8 (Summer Festival) and 12 (Daichi's First Hair) were among the best I've watched this year, and 13 (The Last Plesiosaur) one of the saddest and most suspenseful. 12 was unique in being both hilariously funny and mind-blowing at the same time - an insanely inventive and clever take on sim gaming.

I must confess that I've spent a ridiculous amount of time thinking over episode 12 and the possibility of elevating it to a real game. The amount of variables is of course extreme, but I've always been fascinated about leaving discrete instances of (moderately specialized, procedurally generating) AI on their own devices, and seeing what comes up.

Either way, it's a rather surprising amount of imagination and social commentary in a children's series. I've been pinging Mitsuo Iso's Wikipedia page for activity ever since. This guy is a gem.

[Guardian Enzo]

All done!

I have a lot of thoughts as I recollect on this series, obviously. And since they're mostly positive, let me get the negatives out of the way and leave it on an upbeat note. In many ways, this reminds me of a BONES series. An insanely inventive premise and great characters, paired with solid production values. But somewhere along the way, the plot got too big and too involved and in order to try and resolve it, something of what I loved was lost. I felt this way about E7, about Xam'd... And I feel this way here.

But that said, I really liked those series and I really liked this one. Visually it represents the best of the "Gainax Wing" of Madhouse - lovely character designs and fluid animations, easy on the eyes pastel colors... Even more important for me, it's one of the best series at capturing what it means to be a child - a bright kid on the verge of adolescence, with all the excitement and pain that provides. That's no small feat, nor is the achievement of being a smart series about and for kids that can be totally enjoyed by adults. There's a world created here, a wonderful manifestation of the unique way kids have of operating in a world most grown-ups can't see. And the best part of the ending was the very nearly profound reflections on what it means to give up your childhood and make the painful journey to the "other side".

In the ending and in the characters are the great paradox of the series for me, and the greatest sense of disappointment. Where the ending was simple it was profound, but it was required to carry so much weight in terms of the convoluted (though surely clever) plot that it lost the sense of simplicity at times as the last few eps were bogged down in bewildering exposition. There was so much wasted opportunity here - the writers teased us by introducing an amazing supporting cast - Daichi, Fumie, Denpa, et al - only to toss them to the curb, tragic victims of the need for more plot at all costs. Theirs was the story I wish the series had told, as indeed the best eps - the Summer Festival, Daichi's First Hair, etc - came from this wing of the story. All but Haraken basically disappeared in the last 10 eps, and that's a real shame.

For all that, this series came pretty close to being great as a whole, and the first half of it probably achieved it. It's yet another gem from the absurdly great 2007 lineup, and an important series for Madhouse in establishing their current identity. Like many series too smart for their own good it wasn't commercially successful, but that's all the more reason to be grateful that it was made.

[wandering-dreamer]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

There was so much wasted opportunity here - the writers teased us by introducing an amazing supporting cast - Daichi, Fumie, Denpa, et al - only to toss them to the curb, tragic victims of the need for more plot at all costs..

Oh good, I had so many pauses when I was watching the series that I got confused by the end as to where everyone else went to. Glad to see that I'm not the only one who was annoyed at almost everyone getting put on a bus.
But it really was a good story, the kind where you realize it's so good that it just won't gain that many fans (funny, I seem to think that a lot more about anime than anything Western I see).

[Guardian Enzo]

Interesting headline from Britain today:

"David Cameron calls in Saatchis as Tory lead vanishes"

[wandering-dreamer]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

Interesting headline from Britain today:

"David Cameron calls in Saatchis as Tory lead vanishes"

LOL, what? Can I have a link to that article? Pretty please?
EDIT: Found the article myself actually, that's such an amusing, unintended pun right there.