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View Poll Results: Macross Frontier: Sayonara no Tsubasa Movie Rating | |||
Perfect 10 | 40 | 42.11% | |
9 out of 10 : Excellent | 33 | 34.74% | |
8 out of 10 : Very Good | 12 | 12.63% | |
7 out of 10 : Good | 5 | 5.26% | |
6 out of 10 : Average | 3 | 3.16% | |
5 out of 10 : Below Average | 2 | 2.11% | |
4 out of 10 : Poor | 0 | 0% | |
3 out of 10 : Bad | 0 | 0% | |
2 out of 10 : Very Bad | 0 | 0% | |
1 out of 10 : Painful | 0 | 0% | |
Voters: 95. You may not vote on this poll |
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2012-01-30, 07:07 | Link #3682 | |
さっく♥ゆうきゃん♥ほそやん
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: in the land down under...
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p.s. and may I remind you of some people who might actually be inclined to take the 'downer' view... I have no beef with anyone, or their views about this particular question. To be absolutely honest, I just think that it's something the creators wanted everyone to come to their own conclusions about, so I'm just trying to respect that in my own way.
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2012-01-30, 07:12 | Link #3683 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Age: 48
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--- And I honestly think the writers should stop being so fucking coy about the ending. It's neither clever nor cute.
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2012-01-30, 07:30 | Link #3686 |
さっく♥ゆうきゃん♥ほそやん
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: in the land down under...
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^
Based on the this discussion we've just had, I think your inference is most probably off. But I'm fine with that. As I said, I'm not going to be posting what I think on the forum itself. I don't think I'm being overly negative about it either. I just think that they left it open for people to decide for themselves.
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2012-01-30, 07:37 | Link #3688 | |
cho~ kakkoii
Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: 3rd Planet
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As for the movie, I've finally finished watching it. Only took me three weeks (), but to me it was more of a retelling of the TV series with similar emphasis on how the TV series wanted to tell the story.
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2012-01-30, 08:23 | Link #3689 | |
Spoilaphobic
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: USA
Age: 37
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Would have been cool if Ai-kun folded with Sheryl and she went with Alto. I bet them Vajra could heal Sheryl.
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2012-01-30, 13:03 | Link #3690 |
Minmay Guard
Join Date: May 2009
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The thing is...how are we sure that "Shooting Star" comes AFTER the end of the movie...?
(Also: I'm relishing the irony of people who hated and distrusted Ranka in the series suddenly believing her when she says that when Alto comes back, Sheryl wakes up. Not trying to start a war, just sayin'.)
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2012-01-30, 15:46 | Link #3692 |
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 41
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I'm going to lock this thread temporarily while we figure out what to do with the mess that has transpired here. Please take a break and give us some time to clean things up.
We removed about 25 posts from a tangent that pretty much devolved into name-calling/ad hominem attacks. You are welcome to discuss the movie's ending and express your opinions about it, but please do so without making it personal or directing criticism at other people personally and questioning their motives, "calling people out", accusing people of being trolls, and so on. In some cases, people may just need to agree to disagree, and if you think someone is trolling the thread either report it or ignore it (i.e. don't feed the trolls). Please don't jump on the bandwagon to attack others either. I know most of this stuff should go without saying...
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Last edited by relentlessflame; 2012-01-30 at 18:37. |
2012-01-31, 00:28 | Link #3693 | ||
#1 Ranka Fan!!
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: USA
Age: 32
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For example: I didn't like that Mao lost but I'd love to know what happened to Sara and Shin; however, I'll never know. But I accept it. It's over. Zero is gone. So all I have to say is "accept the overall ending." Quote:
(Also: I had the same thought whilst reading back posts. I was floored to read the posts. Why in the world would they start trusting Ranka after all of this time? After all the hate and disappointment, they suddenly find the weirdest way to say Alto returning is canon (not that it isn't but there is no actual show). I never brought up those words either, and I'm a #1 Ranka fan. So looking back at the posts, I'm actually quite questioning why people are suddenly so attached to a character they hate (or dislike) or rather don't support just so Alto returning (if ever) can be canon. I think that will remain a mystery, Yot-chan. But I'd never use any words that Sheryl used to justify how Alto/Ranka is canon.) --- Here is my one and only reply to this conversation outside of replies: the movie has been on Blu-Ray for months, so why the heck is this discussion (which had been finished months ago) still going on? Kawamori answered all the questions. Whether you like it or not is not up to you. One day, when you have enough money, take a trip to Japan, approach him, and ask him honestly. If that day ever comes, then you'll actually have relief.
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2012-01-31, 02:09 | Link #3694 | |||
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Age: 48
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The problem is still for me that the movie ending didn't feel earned. The series ending... the less said about that, the better at this point.
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2012-01-31, 03:53 | Link #3695 | |||
#1 Ranka Fan!!
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: USA
Age: 32
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For one thing, Spoiler for again:
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This is one thing I hated most about Itsuwari no Utahime. Because the movie is 90% recycled footage, they blended her series personality into her new movie personality. Take into account that the whole Griffith Park scene is unchanged (outside of Sheryl's appearance at the end). Had they rewritten the dialogue at least, perhaps that stronger Ranka whom is shown not but 5mins later having entered the Miss Macross competition, it would've come off better. But throughout the movie, they returned to Ranka's series personality. An example would be the argument with Michael. This is why I find the whole "series to movies" a bit confusing for the first movie. Looking at her personality in Sayonara no Tsubasa, she's completely different from the first movie, no longer showing her series personality. However, her tie to the plot was completely lost. Instead, Brera and Grace are directly tied and thus Sheryl was thrown into the center when she had no tie in the first place. I felt like that kinda rewrote the whole story. Regardless, I don't quite understand why people dislike Ranka's series self. It wasn't bad. She was a normal girl whom lived in a society where she was protected from all the serious dangers (including the issues with war). She had a brother whom had a sister-complex. How is that her fault? But even so, how is she all that different from a normal teenager? That is what made me like her. So what that she had a childish side to her that was present a lot? We all like to be children sometime. I'd like to meet one person who hasn't acted like that once in a while. She still showed growth. For example, standing up to Ozma and deciding to leave with Brera for her own path. Even deciding to stand on the battlefield twice of her own volition even though she didn't know the path to take. I say one thing: if you compare her to Minmei, you are just sick. She's so different from Minmei that there's no comparison. Attitude, possibly; but how she handled the war and crush for Alto was completely different from Minmei. It hurts that people even think that way. So I have to say that overall, my love for her has grown over both universes. I love both of her personalities. My dislike for Sheryl slowly faded into respect. Not the movie verse Sheryl but rather the series. In the movie, I felt like Sheryl came off as too much of a saint. I can't find the human in her in that verse. No one is that selfless. But regardless, I have grown to have a respect for her series self that accepted her limitations and still tried to push on. I'm not saying that she didn't in the movie verse, but her reactions weren't the same. Instead, she came off as more of a different character altogether. The character of Sheryl I knew in the series did not travel into the movies. No matter how much I dislike a character, I'd at least like to see them travel from one universe to the other without seeming like a completely different character. Regardless of my respect, I still don't like her with Alto. Hell, if Alto stays gone and Sheryl and Ranka remain together forever, I'm all for that. They do understand each other like soulmates. (Don't get me wrong, I ain't a yuri fan. I prefer Alto and Ranka but Sheryl and Ranka is my backup on a bad day.) Quote:
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2012-01-31, 04:23 | Link #3696 | |||||
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Age: 48
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Ranka from the movies was a genuinely good and selfless person. If there wasn't Sheryl around, she'd be a very good match for Alto.
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2012-01-31, 08:03 | Link #3697 | ||
さっく♥ゆうきゃん♥ほそやん
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: in the land down under...
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2012-01-31, 16:34 | Link #3699 | ||||||
#1 Ranka Fan!!
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: USA
Age: 32
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I actually have to state that I wouldn't mind them being together. As far as I can tell, there is more to their characters than shown so far. Quote:
Now, Sayonara no Tsubasa was a complete rewrite with little to none recycled footage. Actually, I saw only one shot that was recycled in the triangle talk. But their personalities in the first movie blended with their series personalities due to the recycled footage. That is the reason why I ask "which movie?" If you say "both," then you are saying you like series Ranka but wish she would've become like second movie Ranka in the end. If you say "SnT," then you like the new version of Ranka. Do you understand the concept now? Quote:
Regardless, Ranka did care about others in the series. In all reality, she showed care for Ai-kun, Alto, Sheryl, Ozma, Michael, Nanase, and Brera. They showed multiple scenes in the series where she was shown being horrified when any of said people got hurt. However, Nanase's came too late and it seemed more like she was concerned about Sheryl rather than Nanase. But I do see where she avoided some failures her series' self made. I never said Ranka was a character with no flaws, rather, I adore said flaws that make her seem human. I am unable to actually say she was "selfish" in the series. Given how she reacted overall in the series, it seems like people love to attach themselves to episodes 19-21 because of those scenes where she chose to stop singing, and then state she is being "selfish." Earlier episodes proved otherwise. Even when she doubted Alto's feelings for her, she still went to Galia 4 to rescue him and Sheryl; so I'm inclined to say she isn't "selfish" but doubts "herself." I think towards the end of the series, she doubted her abilities and powers to be used for the good of Frontier. Even so, I love both universe's versions of Ranka. Quote:
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Sheryl from the series whom was not aware of her virus and later found out selfishly decided to sing just to continue her dream (at the time). Later, she chose to selflessly sing for the people of Frontier. All the while, she both selflessly and selfishly clung to Alto (or otherwise desired his support). Whilst she didn't want to do those things, she actually ended up doing so. That's why I respect her series self more, because it was more human. No person says "I'm gonna die, please love him in my place." A normal person says "I'm gonna die but I want to at least tell him how I feel first." People are selfish when they are in live or die situations. And Sheryl from the series was that way (even if not all the time). Once the series version came to her senses and realized she could do no more (after Alto's pledge to kill Ranka) she became selfless and chose to make Alto return to Ranka's side (for her death was at hand). So you see, I respect her. But I don't have to like her. Quote:
But I have to ask: if the triangle was written without Sheryl and the love triangle was Alto, Ranka, and Brera; whom would have won? Before you answer, take into account that Brera would not be her brother in this universe and Sheryl would not be around, so Alto would be chasing after Ranka's affections. Given how Alto and Ranka's and Brera and Ranka's relationships were in the series and subtract Sheryl from the scale; which relationship do you think would've won?
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2012-01-31, 16:55 | Link #3700 | ||||
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Age: 48
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Sheryl from the movie, OTOH, was a willing spy for Galaxy and, it seems to me, entertained serious thoughts about going along with Graces idea of harvesting Rankas organs. Even when she decided against that, it's selfish behaviour on totally another plane than trying to win the man she loves. Quote:
It would have to be a different story with differently written characters, which is always what a "what if" scenario boils down to.
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mecha, movie, romance, science fiction, song |
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