US Elections 2012 Part II: The Conventions, Debates and Election results

[Kaioshin Sama]

See the thing with the U.S that I've come to notice is how they've had dead set party voting blocs for as long as I can remember and the electoral college system makes it so that this always seems to end up making every election closer than it has any real right to be. California and New England have always gone pretty much full democrat, the deep south and midwest Republican and arguments can be made that it ultimately does come down to race. The shifting change in influence of women and non-white voters may end up changing this though much like Vexx pointed out.

Here's an article I read showing what the electoral maps look like if you just complete exclude certain demographics from the voting roster altogether. Not sure of the scientific merit behind it, but apparently if you exclude white people altogether from the roster then Obama wins the 2008 Presidential election 538 electoral votes to zip over McCain.

[Destined_Fate]

Sad isn't it? That's America nowadays, it seems like you're either with someone or you're against them now.

Originally Posted by aohige

"Entitled to foooooood!
MMMmedicine!!
ROOOOVES!!"

"Oh my god, your campaign got blown up by Jimmy Carter's GRANDSON!?"

"That's 14 Mays ago!"

Jon. Is. The best.
My sides. They are irrepairable.

Yeah... That was really great. Glad someone was able to point out the hypocrisy so clear as day. Considering his following I doubt this will bite him in the ass for telling the truth, there's simply no way to refute what he said considering how he laid out the evidence. I'm sure Fox may go on to say that he took things out of context or cut out only the parts he liked.

[Kaioshin Sama]

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

Sad isn't it? That's America nowadays, it seems like you're either with someone or you're against them now.



Yeah... That was really great. Glad someone was able to point out the hypocrisy so clear as day. Considering his following I doubt this will bite him in the ass for telling the truth, there's simply no way to refute what he said considering how he laid out the evidence. I'm sure Fox may go on to say that he took things out of context or cut out only the parts he liked.

[ganbaru]

Another video than could go either this thread or the ''A laugh a day'' one. go to 2:11

[Ithekro]

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

See the thing with the U.S that I've come to notice is how they've had dead set party voting blocs for as long as I can remember and the electoral college system makes it so that this always seems to end up making every election closer than it has any real right to be. California and New England have always gone pretty much full democrat, the deep south and midwest Republican and arguments can be made that it ultimately does come down to race. The shifting change in influence of women and non-white voters may end up changing this though much like Vexx pointed out.

Here's an article I read showing what the electoral maps look like if you just complete exclude certain demographics from the voting roster altogether. Not sure of the scientific merit behind it, but apparently if you exclude white people altogether from the roster then Obama wins the 2008 Presidential election 538 electoral votes to zip over McCain.

One wonders how those would look for an election that didn't have race as a possible reason to vote (white man vs black man). One could take one of Bush's elections...probably 2004 or Clinton in 1996 and see what the breakdown was. It would be especially interesting to see if the Non-whites only map changed at all for Bush vs Kerry or Clinton vs. Dole as oppose to Obama vs. McCain. (2000 was a mess in more ways than one and doing up maps would probably get people upset again).

[Ridwan]

I think I like Obama better now.

[DonQuigleone]

Originally Posted by Aegir

I think I like Obama better now.

I see. Strange the Turks haven't been speaking up much about this...

[ganbaru]

Originally Posted by Aegir

I think I like Obama better now.

On what half-baked fact did he base that on?

BTW, didn't the Turk made much noise after that shitt movie or not ?

[GuidoHunter_Toki]

Originally Posted by ganbaru

Another video than could go either this thread or the ''A laugh a day'' one. go to 2:11

I honestly can't stand Bill Mahr. The guy is such a snob. His "all republicans and religion are dumb motifs" are getting old and more offensive as time goes on. And here he goes again putting down an entire group of people.

Could it be that many people are undecided because they just don't have the time nor drive to dig up info or follow the joke that is the political media. Nope they must all be idiots like Kim Kardashian.

I mean I'm pretty much an undecided voter at this point even though I have a good idea of who I'll vote for. That must put me into the same league as the people he described.

[sikvod00]

I pretty much agree with you on Bill Maher. He's another perfect example of how even if you agree with someone on many things, you still dislike them because the way they say it rubs you the wrong way. Too much of a douche, and no where near as funny or deft as John Stewart is when it comes to mixing comedy and politics.

[Urzu 7]

Originally Posted by ganbaru

On what half-baked fact did he base that on?

BTW, didn't the Turk made much noise after that shitt movie or not ?

Yeah, I'd like to know what makes him say something like that. Not like it matters; it is just another republican official saying things that are way off base.

Just gotta love it when stupid twits call the president Barack Hussein Obama. We get it. You are trying to draw an association between Obama and Saddam Hussein (even though they have nothing in common). Now stop trolling.

[monir]

Originally Posted by Urzu 7

Just gotta love it when stupid twits call the president Barack Hussein Obama. We get it. You are trying to draw an association between Obama and Saddam Hussein (even though they have nothing in common). Now stop trolling.

Just a quick observation here.... The emphasis on his middle name is put forth to remind people that he is got Muslim roots more than anything else. The representative started with how Hussein is re-building the Ottoman empire single handedly. And then when he cites his full name with the added emphasis on Hussein, he quickly says that he fully believes Obama is a Christian. It will make even more sense why these guys like the Texas representative recite Obama's full name whenever the occasion calls for it if you hear my most favorite gal from Minnesota, Michelle Bachman (I adore her) speaks about Obama.

[Urzu 7]

Originally Posted by monir

Just a quick observation here.... The emphasis on his middle name is put forth to remind people that he is got Muslim roots more than anything else. The representative started with how Hussein is re-building the Ottoman empire single handedly. And then when he cites his full name with the added emphasis on Hussein, he quickly says that he fully believes Obama is a Christian. It will make even more sense why these guys like the Texas representative recite Obama's full name whenever the occasion calls for it if you hear my most favorite gal from Minnesota, Michelle Bachman (I adore her) speaks about Obama.

You are right that they say Hussein to point out he has a Muslim name. I think they also do that because Americans generally know of Saddam Hussein. It is like "two birds with one stone" kind of thing when they call him Barack Hussein Obama. It works with the people who have pretty much hated Obama from the start. They want the association to be a true connection when they hear his middle name being brought up time and again by these twits. The rest of us just roll our eyes and get annoyed by the whole thing. To make it fair, they should refer to Romney as "the Mormon* Mitt Romney" or "the rich snob Mitt Romney". Oh, who am I kidding, they'll always have their double standards.


* - Being a Mormon is just fine. My point is that they try to paint Obama as a Muslim, and GOP supporters, for the most part, don't like Muslims, so I jokingly suggest they emphasize Romney's Mormon faith, being that most GOP supporters don't like Mormons, either.

[Ithekro]

Wasn't all that long ago that being Mormon was probably just as bad as being Muslim. The country did suppress the hell out of them until 1890 or so.

[Urzu 7]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

Wasn't all that long ago that being Mormon was probably just as bad as being Muslim. The country did suppress the hell out of them until 1890 or so.

Even today, most Catholics, most Protestants, and most other Christians (other denominations and non-denominational Christians) don't even consider Mormonism to really be a type of Christianity. Heck, even today, you still have Protestants who think all/virtually all Catholics are going to hell and you have Catholics who think all/virtually all Protestants are going to hell.

[aohige]

I echo the dislike of Bill Maher as well.
He's almost as bad as Limbaugh, just on the opposite spectrum.

He completely lacks the style and swag of Stewart, and babbles on condescending hate speech without giving it any intelligent slant.
It's simply gratingly annoying.

[Ithekro]

If I recall, Bill Maher was doing political stand up back when John Stewart was doing "Short Attention Span Theater". Around the time of the 1992 election.

[flying ^]

Originally Posted by Jinto

Lets assume...

Lets assume...

Lets say...

Now for the sake of the argument lets...

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

...Man, I thought I've seen burns before but you just lit the whole forest on fire. Burn....

let's ASSUME you stick to facts and not assumptions...

Originally Posted by Ledgem

New flash: nearly everyone tries to do that, and if you create loopholes in the system, they are going to be utilized.

Although a tax break isn't really a loophole. It's kind of an... umm, what's the term... oh, it's a damn tax break, why the hell do you think they called it that?

So yes, this is about tax breaks. Remove the damn breaks and these people won't be eligible to avoid the taxes. What's so difficult to understand about this?

you completely missed the point here.

... start over:

93.4% of the 47% don't pay taxes, not because they take advantages of deductions and exemptions, but because the amount of their income falls below a taxable threshold. 93.4% of 47% still means that 44% of Americans are getting government benefits paid for by other taxpayers.

the other 6.6% of the 47% (3% of total taxpayers) use perfectly legal methods of avoiding taxes. Many do so with tax-free municipal bonds that were created so cities and states could raise revenue for schools, roads, and bridges. the bond buyers are actually helping communities by purchasing bonds that pay a lower interest rate. congress gave these bonds taxfree status for just that reason.
you can legislate these away if you like, but just watch... communities get hurt in the process.


One more time for effect:

Spoiler for One of the most influential American judges never to have served on the Supreme Court..... :

Originally Posted by Judge Learned Hand

Anyone may arrange his affairs so that his taxes shall be as low as possible; he is not bound to choose that pattern which best pays the treasury. There is not even a patriotic duty to increase one’s taxes. Over and over again the Courts have said that there is nothing sinister in so arranging affairs as to keep taxes as low as possible. Everyone does it, rich and poor alike and all do right, for nobody owes any public duty to pay more than the law demands.

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by flying ^

let's ASSUME you stick to facts and not assumptions...

If you'd bother to read past the word "assume" in each sentence, you might grasp that he was simplifying it so you'd understand it without changing the underlying facts. Apparently, that wasn't enough.

And all you're describing is that the tax code is broken because of decades of special interest lobbying and political buy offs. Lets fix it. Take all those "legal" methods of avoidance away so that people large and small pay a fair share.

[ganbaru]

Originally Posted by Vexx

And all you're describing is that the tax code is broken because of decades of special interest lobbying and political buy offs. Lets fix it. Take all those "legal" methods of avoidance away so that people large and small pay a fair share.

I doubt than you could remove all thoses loopholes, given their numbers. Plus a few of them aren't that hated, or even positive, like the deduction for donation to charity.