Learning Japanese

[FatPianoBoy]

Originally Posted by deathreape98

moshi-moshi means hi too btw^_^


and, i was wondering. should i learn hira or kanji first?

Moshimoshi is generally used only when you're unsure of whom you're speaking to - such as on the phone or when someone is facing away from you - or to get someone's attention.

Oh, and learn to read Hiragana -> Katakana -> Kanji.

[raikage]

You guys' avatars confuse me.

Originally Posted by Syaoran

Crap ^^'
Guess I'll have to pick them up when I hear people using keigo then.

To be honest, though, I wouldn't think Japanese people would expect a foreigner to have a good understanding of son'keigo (尊敬語) and ken'jougo (謙譲語) -- or to even know what they are.

Originally Posted by Honey_and_Cleaver

My japanese teacher doesnt get made at me for being totally rude at my japanese. She says it good to absorb japanese culture from animes, it shows tham im well familiar with japanese sounds. When it comes to pronouncing, i have good ear in my class, but not good memory.

Yeah adding masu and desu makes it less rude. Instead of "nei yo", you say "dewa arimasen desuyo"

Actually i find polite japanese sucks, too long and i like how rude japanese tend to sound.

Sometimes i spill out "Attarimai ja nei ka yo!" or "en da?". My teacher just laughs. I think later, i would get screwed for this.

You don't speak a language based on whatever words you think sounds cool.

I can't speak with certainty, but if you really do want to learn the language on its own rights (not simply because you love anime) then break this habit or you WILL get burned later on. I'm actually very surprised your teacher would let you get away with speaking like a punk kid.

[tritoch]

anybody know of any good japanese dictionary? Google:translation fails me 100% and uh free dict doesn't work sometimes.

I need a dict!

I effing failed grammar. I know what I am saying/writing but my grammar just killed me.. "gakusei ha nihon" stuff.. FAIL

[CarpeDiem]

Originally Posted by tritoch

anybody know of any good japanese dictionary? Google:translation fails me 100% and uh free dict doesn't work sometimes.

I need a dict!

I effing failed grammar. I know what I am saying/writing but my grammar just killed me.. "gakusei ha nihon" stuff.. FAIL

Dictionary: http://www.wwwjdic.com
Grammar: http://www.guidetojapanese.org

[Syaoran]

Originally Posted by raikage

You guys' avatars confuse me.To be honest, though, I wouldn't think Japanese people would expect a foreigner to have a good understanding of son'keigo (尊敬語) and ken'jougo (謙譲語) -- or to even know what they are.

Well... here at university we've to be able to use keigo and not only when giving a presentation ^^'

Most people here study Japanese in order to work in Japan or at least for a Japanese company here and therefore they say it's important that we know about it. It's my first year of Japanese. The next year they'll focus on when to use what kind of speech etc.

For now they introduced just a few irregular verbs and the grammatical rules to form humble and honorific forms. We get lots of exercises about it... Oral as well as written. Lately I've been busy with 授受動詞 (jujudoushi) in humble and honorific forms in sentences where you put a verb in the 〜て形＋Giving/Receiving verbs i.e.

[deathreape98]

Originally Posted by FatPianoBoy

Moshimoshi is generally used only when you're unsure of whom you're speaking to - such as on the phone or when someone is facing away from you - or to get someone's attention.

Oh, and learn to read Hiragana -> Katakana -> Kanji.

ok, thanks

[WanderingKnight]

I need a dict!

There's a freeware word processor online called JWPCe that comes integrated with EDICT, which is a pretty helpful English-Japanese & Japanese-English tool. Anyways, if you don't want to download the program, you can check Jim Breen's WWWJDIC, which has edict and glossdic, as well as many other dictionaries (most of which I still haven't found the use for, but I'm sure I will someday).

[Kyuusai]

For those on other OSes, there are similar edict-integrating dictionaries.
I use gjiten on Linux and Mayjay on OS X.

And if I'm on the web, I either use Jim Breen's server or, more commonly these days, I visit http://jisho.org/ which is also my #1 spot for looking up kanji by radical (it has a great interface, give it a try!)

I'm extra glad I found jisho.org, because I only came across it while researching how to build something very similar. Saved me a lot of work!

[Honey_and_Cleaver]

Originally Posted by raikage

You guys' avatars confuse me.



You don't speak a language based on whatever words you think sounds cool.

I can't speak with certainty, but if you really do want to learn the language on its own rights (not simply because you love anime) then break this habit or you WILL get burned later on. I'm actually very surprised your teacher would let you get away with speaking like a punk kid.

I dont find it sucks because it sounds cool, it sucks because it damn hard to remember. Polite japanese is the most difficult to learn especially when speaking to a boss. Theres even a different japanese when writing. I just find the plain japanese much fun to use and sounds nicer. Anyway wanting to know the words that sounds cool is developes an interest in japanese, i think thats what my japanese teacher thinks. All of the other students study japanese because of work.

Yeah i know. Ill get burn for this. I have to cut this habit.

[FatPianoBoy]

Actually, polite speech is much easier, since all the verbs conjugate the same with the 'masu' ending (which may be another reason why it's usually taught first). It is also less prone to random idiosyncracies, so it's easier to understand people when they speak this way.

[Erawyn]

Originally Posted by FatPianoBoy

Actually, polite speech is much easier, since all the verbs conjugate the same with the 'masu' ending (which may be another reason why it's usually taught first). It is also less prone to random idiosyncracies, so it's easier to understand people when they speak this way.

In addition to that, it's much easier to manipulate -masu form into other forms such as -te form. Also, lot's of grammar structures just use the verb stem (masu form but without the -masu). Which is why it's almost always taught first. However, being polite isn't only just about using masu form (teineigo). Sonkeigo and kenjougo is where it gets slightly tricky.

Teineigo (-masu) is just to be polite overall, whereas sonkeigo is where you are describing the actions of people superior than you and kenjougo is where you are actually speaking to someone higher than you (eg, your company's CEO) and you are describing the action of you and the people within your "group." When using these forms of speech, some verbs change into something completely different

Some examples of this (straight out of my text book):

Sonkeigo (尊敬語):

To go, come, be: 行く(iku), 来る(kuru), いる(iru) -> いらっしゃる(irassharu)
To do: する(suru) -> 為さる(nasaru)
To say: 言う(iu) -> おっしゃる (ossharu)
To look: 見る(miru) -> ご覧になる (goran ni naru)
To come: 来る(kuru) -> おいでになる(oide ni naru)
To be: である(dearu) -> でいらっしゃる (deirassharu)
To eat: 食べる(taberu) -> 召し上がる (meshiagaru)
To know: 知る(shiru) -> ご存知である(gozonji dearu)

Kenjougo (謙譲語):

To go: 行く(iku) -> 伺う(ukagau)
To say: 言う(iu) -> 申す(mousu)
To look: 見る(miru) -> 拝見する(haikensuru)
To come: 来る(kuru) -> 参る(mairu)
To be: である (dearu) -> でござる(degozaru)
To know: 知る(shiru) -> 存じる(zonjiru)
To eat, drink, recieve: 食べる(taberu), 飲む(nomu), もらう(morau) -> 頂く(itadaku)
To be (person): いる(iru) -> おる(oru)

By the way, about that JWPce. Download it. Now. It is VERY useful. If it were to keep a log of how many times i've used its dictionary, it would at least be in the 5 digit figure. Really useful for people learning japanese, saves the fuss of going to an online dictionary and searching for a word (don't even mention a real dictionary)

[WanderingKnight]

To say: 言う(iu) -> 申す(mousu)

Whoa, I can finally understand where 申し訳ありません comes from. Never thought it'd mean that, really.

[Ledgem]

My preferred dictionary: http://dict.regex.info/cgi-bin/j-e/sjis/dict (has mirrors, occasionally you may have to use them). Also includes kanji look-up through various means, but not through visual recognition (although the visual ones seem to be pretty flawed. Nice idea, though). You might need to tweak a special option to get it out output the reading in hiragana instead of romaji on some mirrors, although that might only matter to you if you're like me and can't stand romaji in place of hiragana/katakana. Probably a nice option for the beginners, though.

[WanderingKnight]

Also includes kanji look-up through various means, but not through visual recognition (although the visual ones seem to be pretty flawed. Nice idea, though)

I use Microshit's IME pad for visual kanji recognition (that is, you draw the kanji with your mouse) and it works perfectly. That is, considering you write the characters in the right order.

[Vexx]

Even the Japanese have given up and write left to right in Microsoft Office

[FatPianoBoy]

I'm translating a manga, and the word ヴァギナデンタータ has me confounded. Any ideas?

Context: 「オグルはシイナに張り付いてるな」　「ヴァギナデンタータだよ」

It could be a proper noun, I know, but just in case.

[Scourge87]

I only know a few
Aniki-san-------Older Brother
Mizu----------Water
Kitsune-------Fox
Mushi Mushi---------"Hello" on the Telephone
and Konuchiwah(don't know how to spell this one)------Hello


I do wish I can speak Japanese as well as I can speak english, no maybe better

[Syaoran]

What Kind of manga are you translating XD ?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but ヴァギナデンタータ is read as vaginatentaata?
Sounds like vaginal tentacle to me O.o

[FatPianoBoy]

It's not what you're thinking, I promise

It's actually 'dentaata.' And there'd be a 'ku' on the end instead of 'ta' if it were 'tentacle.'
Although something along those lines did cross my mind

If all else fails, I'll just render it phonetically and wait for someone to complain

[Syaoran]

Ouch >_<
My bad... after the first part of the word my brain probably entered a side track to continue processing that word

But for once that sidetrack was more or less right.
It's still gross when you imagine what it could look like and I'm very good at imagining stuff! Sometimes what I imagine scares the shit out of me. Not because it's gross, but because I was able to imagine such things.

Appearantly it's latin and Vagina Dentata means toothed vagina. It's some kind of goddess.

More info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vagina_dentata